Starbucks on Franklin Ave?
  • Vote with your dollar billz ya'll. The Gilded Crack Baby mural pawn shop went out of biz because of lack of funding, period. Boycott Starbucks if you believe it is a subpar overpriced product or you are anti-stripmallification of Franklin and it will go bye-bye too.


  • I don't normally buy coffee, but all the annoying whining on this thread has me itching to buy a Starbucks card.

    Don't like it? Don't shop there, but get off your freaking high horses about those who do.

    The comparison to the pawn shop I find especially specious and ironic. The pawn shop was criticized for attracting a criminal element and dragging the neighborhood towards the "bad old days." Starbucks, arguably, constitutes a move in the opposite direction.

    I guess anything that diverges from a specific, narrow vision of what the neighborhood should be like is tough for some people to swallow.

    Like Chairman Mao said, let a hundred flowers blossom. But like Deng Xiao-Ping, I don't care what color a cat is, so long as it catches mice.


  • I am amazed that people think they have an influence over a business if "they" do not patronize it, and that a business is supposed to serve their preferences.

    As long as a business serves the preferences of ENOUGH people who have the means to pay for it, it will do fine.

    A business doesn't have to serve everyone. It can serve very small subsets and do fine.

    By serving a defined a market segment, it is only directly competing with those also serving said segment. I'll worry about this Starbucks going out of business when a SECOND coffee chain opens.


  • I really liked the pawn shop mural.


  • The pawn shop mural was a genius piece of advertising. It communicated to me that I could sell my worldly possessions and make my baby rich and happy.

    Sadly, I didn't have kids, and couldn't get over the brainwashing I received when I was a kid: Having a college education and a work ethic is the best bet.

    I'm with Eastbloc, I suspect those that patronize Starbucks will be predominantly people who have been brainwashed, like me.

    There will, however, be one big difference between them and myself: They will go to Starbucks because they like coffee, whereas I won't go because I do not drink coffee.

    This is just another business that has decided to place its interests above mine.

    Such is life. I wish them the best.


  • Some of the comments are laughable. I welcome a Starbucks. Plenty of others I'm sure will as well, and maybe weed out some of the subpar options out there. The super-cool-hipsters will still be able to sit on the sidewalk at Little Zelda with a macbook in lap while reading Proust to show others their superiority.

    There are great coffee places in the hood, and this will be one of them (treat employees well, solid consistent coffee/snacks, clean good space).


  • Quote of the day:

    goldemi wrote: The super-cool-hipsters will still be able to sit on the sidewalk at Little Zelda with a macbook in lap while reading Proust to show others their superiority.

  • One thing about Starbucks is that everyone knows you can go in there and hang out for hours without the staff hassling you to leave. I think this place will be full of grad student types nursing one cup of coffee and studying for hours.

    Yet it still won't beat the Dunkin Donuts on Nostrand which is open 24 hours a day. Coffee House Deathwatch just got real!!!


  • Thank god we've got a starbucks. I was wondering if there'd ever be a place on Franklin where I could get a cup of coffee.


  • I was expecting to see a Chase Bank ATM vestibule on Franklin way before a Starbucks arrival. I wonder if Chase will be next or a Rite Aid?


  • Lily and Fig makes a good portion of its revenue from making cakes but, if I were them, I'd still be concerned about having a Starbucks nearby.



    photo: Franklin Ave Merchants Assn

    At Starbucks, you can reliably get a brownie or cookie.


  • " At Starbucks, you can reliably get a brownie or cookie. "

    Yep, and soon you will be able to randomly pick any train, get off in any town/hood, visit their main street, and get the same exact cookie or brownie, that will taste exactly the same, while you listen to the same exact music piped in. If diversity is the spice of life then Franklin will be joining the bland ranks with this addition.


  • Pete Seeger has been predicting this for 50 years.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUwUp-D_VV0

    Related reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Boxes


  • I just noticed this today, but there is a Starbucks awning at Atlantic Center mall. I think that's new and it's across the street from the already existing Starbucks at Barclays Center. They're taking over


  • They do have a number of locations in Brooklyn. Among them are two near Brooklyn College, and one in Park Slope (at Park Place and Flatbush).

    http://www.starbucks.com/store-locator


  • There's another in Park Slope: inside the Barnes & Noble on 7th Avenue.


  • Someday, Pete Seeger will be right.

    Ditto, Thomas Robert Malthus.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusianism

    Until then, I guess we can choose whether or not to go to Starbucks.


  • I'd be shocked if Starbucks takes that much of the out-of-neighborhood foot traffic-- if you're travelling to Franklin, you're coming to visit twee businesses and resto-bars, not national chains. Likewise, the tastes of people working in a "creative incubator", or whatever 1000 Dean is, are likely to tend toward indie coffee.


  • Epiclylaterd, the Starbucks at Atlantic Center Mall has been there for years and years. It's one of the smaller stores nearest to the LIRR entrance next to the cookie shop.


  • I'm kind of disappointed that we haven't had a real anti-corporate zealot come along and point out that places with Starbucks are devoid of all redeeming qualities.

    I'd point out how many countries they presently have locations:



    source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starbucks

    Then, I would wonder aloud how far around a location is destroyed. A few storefronts? A few blocks? The entire city? The entire country?


  • whynot_31 said:

    I'm kind of disappointed that we haven't had a real anti-corporate zealot come along and point out that places with Starbucks are devoid of all redeeming qualities.

    I'd point out how many countries they presently have locations:



    source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starbucks

    Then, I would wonder aloud how far around a location is destroyed. A few storefronts? A few blocks? The entire city? The entire country?



    The entire world if not the whole solar system. Starbucks has only three redeeming features.

    1. Free bathrooms

    2. Free WIFI

    3. they don't kick you out if you come into use the above and don't buy anything.


  • Tate, shows you how much I pay attention to anything


  • We really need frothy, irrational posters to make this debate worthwhile. You know...

    Artists!

    Revolutionaries!

    Sadly, they are gone. We have lost the neighbors who seem to believe that blogging is a medium in which to spread utopian world views, and whom believe that Starbucks must be shamed out of existence for some offense they read on Mother Jones, Dissent or The Nation.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=mother+jones+The+nation+Dissent+"starbucks"&hl=en&gbv=2&oq=mother+jones+The+nation+Dissent+"starbucks"&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...8745.27534.0.28044.8.7.0.1.0.0.118.699.2j5.7.0....0...1ac.1.24.heirloom-serp..8.0.0.nPuHrckOpik

    As pointed out by goldemi, Franklin Avenue now only provides us with their sympathizers as entertainment: Under-employed, wealthy, guilt ridden, cheese eating, Proust readers.

    Perhaps because others don't want to sit by them, Starbucks will thrive.


  • From another message board:

    People sort of forget we're the Columbus' of Crown Heights. Fixies and overly complicated coffee drinks are our 'small pox".

  • I don't have a problem with Starbucks opening on Franklin; however, I do hope they don't pull too many customers from small businesses like Nimba, Pulp & Bean, Little Zelda, Lily & Fig and Breukelen Coffee House.

    I imagine Starbucks being the go-to spot for visiting parents of the neighborhood's newer young inhabitants.


  • From another message board:

    In all the newly gentrified, hip neighborhoods. At first the new residents complain, then buy the coffee anyway. Pumpkin spice lattes triumph! Lena Dunham writes an episode of Girls about it, and wins another Golden Globe. Tina Fey throws a drink in her face durning her acceptance speech. That drink is a pumpkin spice latte. Starbucks triumphs again!

  • I was just traveling earlier this month, and I went to Starbucks a lot on the trip, because I knew I would get an acceptable latte, free wifi, and sometimes even an outlet to recharge my phone. When I'm at home, though, I'm happy to go to local places, because it's easier to take a "what the heck" view of a terrible coffee, or a rude manager, when you know you can walk down the street and have other good options instead.

    (I remember living on Vanderbilt in the pre-Joyce days, when there was only one coffeeshop option, and that place was run by a crazy lady. Not all local coffee shops are worth supporting...)


  • Starbucks offers health insurance to part-timers, unlike a lot of service industry jobs.


  • I'm always the last to know...

    I think Starbucks will do very well on Franklin. All those folks walking to the subway on their way to work, or those who will soon be walking the other way to 1000 Dean will stop in for fast and consistent service. Something that Breukelen and Pulp & Bean struggle with during the morning commute, unfortunately. I'm sure I'll stop in for a double espresso once they open.


  • Also Starbucks got people used to paying real money for good coffee. I don't remember, but I'll bet my first good cup of coffee was from Starbucks.

    I've heard that having a Starbucks come to town is very good for the small coffee shops, because Starbucks educates people on why coffee might be worth 3$, and then those people start buying coffee from smaller shops because they are closer or whatever.

    We probably don't need that in Brooklyn, though.


  • Bring on Starbucks!

    For me it's less about whether or not I will actually patronize it (although I probably will occasionally if I walk up Franklin Avenue); it's more about what it means for the neighborhood.

    I grew up here. Years ago I wouldn't have dreamed that Starbucks (or half the stuff on Franklin on the other side of Eastern Parkway) would have been there. I just wish it were to open south of Eastern Parkway. :-)


  • Reading cameralady's post makes me realize that the sbux would maybe cater to an audience that the likes of Zelda or Breukelen dont, which is all the 'regular' people...those over 30, not seeking hip coffee places, maybe with kids in tow (me). i.e., the 99%.


  • I really love our small, local coffee places. After living in the neighborhood for 12 years, it was nice to finally have a way to get to know more of my neighbors and have a meeting place. However, because I am that grad student who sometimes can only sometimes afford to buy multiple $2.75 (plus tips) cups of tea plus snacks, there are other days when I go to Starbucks because I can get my 54 cent refills all day and get my work done. I alternate.


  • A Starbucks continues to be in the works for Franklin Avenue, but construction has not yet begun on the former location of Climax, because they have an even larger prize in sight.http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/topic/the-vacant-spot-left-by-climax-775-franklin-corner-of-st-johns/page/5/
  • While we are waiting to see which location will be chosen by Starbucks, I thought I would pass on this article about a parody store that has opened.http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/02/10/dumb-starbucks-parody-free-coffee/5357597/I hope they have a good attorney.
  • homeowner said:

    One thing about Starbucks is that everyone knows you can go in there and hang out for hours without the staff hassling you to leave. I think this place will be full of grad student types nursing one cup of coffee and studying for hours.

    Yet it still won't beat the Dunkin Donuts on Nostrand which is open 24 hours a day. Coffee House Deathwatch just got real!!!







    Homeowner, I'm one of those students, lol. While I would NEVER do that to Eric, Khalil, Rafael, Flannery or any of other small cafe owners who I love and try to support whenever possible, there are times when funds are low and I feel absolutely no guilt nursing a cup for hours. Actually, one of the reasons I tend to leave C. Heights to find a Starbucks to work all day is bc they offer 50cent refills. When Starbucks opens I'll alternate depending on my wallet.
  • I'd take a Starbucks over the "drug den/video store" on Washington Ave between Sterling and St. John's. While we're at it, I'd welcome a chain drugstore to replace Thriftway, or Thriftcare.
  • Someone at one of the smaller coffee shops should consider selling Charbucks.

  • I hope Starbucks runs this ad to demonstrate their commitment to diversity and the environment:

    http://vimeo.com/m/89527215

    It works every time.
  • Great video! (I work in brand management, and shared with team). Hey, 60% of the time it works every time.
  • 60% of the local audience might be susceptible to the word "artisanal".    If I were the Starbucks opening on Franklin Avenue, I'd put that word on the wall somewhere.



    Photos:   Brooklyn Independent Media "BRIC"
  • Guess which corporation's engineers were in 341 Eastern Parkway today measuring things?

    Answer: Starbuck's
  • And there goes the neighborhood.
  • Less than six months from now, I expect to overhear:

    "Yea, before Starbucks opened, this neighborhood was cool. Now it is nothing but apartment buildings for people pushing strollers, and fancy places to eat and drink."

    ...and I will smile, because I have been tracking the transition since 2006.
  • Starbucks there is the equivalent of the Dunkin' Donuts at Eastern Parkway. It doesn't really affect the neighborhoods up the avenue. Both would be much worse were they in the middle of the neighborhoods up the avenues.

    Pulp & Bean should welcome this. It will draw people that way, many of whom will end up going to Pulp & Bean instead much of the time.
  • In the event that Starbucks opens in 341 EP before September, Pulp and Bean will begin serving Steve's Ice Cream.

    This will put him in competition with Yogu Moo.

    However, his location near the subway stairs is superior to theirs.
  • Is there something that Pulp and the Bean will stop selling when Starbucks moves in?  Not sure if I'm missing something here..
  • He will stop selling coffee if and when it becomes unprofitable.

    Starbucks may be so popular that it has a line. He could continue to serve people who want coffee quickly, and want to say "large" as opposed to "grande".

    If that fails, I'd convert the space into a vestibule for Chase ATM's. This would get the business of people who don't have accounts with Capital One, and make him a landlord as opposed to an operator.
  • As I mentioned on the coffee shop deathwatch thread, if Tony closes Pulp & Bean, I think he should expand Bob & Betty's into the P&B space and put in a deli counter to offer fresh cold cuts, sandwiches, hot food to go, etc. Or he could just add another section of shelves to Bob & Betty's to include items his customers want that he can't fit in there now.
  • Sorry..not sure which thread to add this question to, but just curious...now that Starbucks is moving into 341 EP, anyone know what is to become of Starbucks previous choice, the lovely Climax spot?  I personally am eager to at least see the old shop's signage disappear...it makes me blush every time I walk by. :-))
  • Is it wrong to wonder how naturegirlbk would react to our own version of Park Slope's Babeland opening in the spot?

    ...sorry, I have no info on what is going into the Climax space.

    But I do hope it meets all of our most personal desires.


  • ;-) ;-) ;-)
  • Starbuck's will probably bring more auto traffic from the EP into the hood. No fun with double parked cars trying to get a drink.  Hope we can keep the traffic moving. I wonder if its impact on storefront values will spread down the avenue.  I won't buy there, I love Tinto's and other small coffee shops.
  • DNAinfo: Starbucks to Open First Crown Heights Location This Fall

    Starbucks said Wednesday it will open a new location in Crown Heights this fall at the new residential building at 341 Eastern Parkway.

  • Ack, there goes the neighborhood.
  • @Esperanza Quite the contrary.  Finally a decent place (clean, comfy, spacious, etc.) to stop by with the family while going on a stroll down the parkway.
  • All to soon it won't be clean and be another public restroom. I would rather have a place with decent coffee, rather than another cookie-cutter chain.
  • The locations on 7th Ave in Park Slope and on Flatbush Ave seem to be holding up just fine.  Besides, who says there can't be a place with, what you deem, decent coffee and a cookie-cutter chain in the same area?
  • Visited too much in too many countries (and tried their Starbucks) to deem the coffee decent:)
  • Remember, everyone doesn't have to like Starbucks.

    Only ENOUGH people have to.
  • Ah, but that is the thing, the masses do;) Give me some good single blend Arabica and life is good.
  • http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2014/06/starbucks-is-coming-to-crown-heights/

    First Starbucks east of Flatbush Ave.--a most interesting factoid!
  • Oh, I am sure there are lots of Starbucks East of Flatbush Avenue; they are in Queens, Nassau and Suffolk.

    Starbucks just has not yet opened one in the ever shrinking "East Brooklyn".

    ...and, to some, the existence of a Starbucks here may be evidence that we are not in East Brooklyn.
  • BTW, as noted by this thread, Starbucks began seeking a location on "our" section of Franklin Avenue in the Fall of 2012, and is to open in the Fall of 2014.

    The process took about 2 years.

  • Esperanza said:

    All to soon it won't be clean and be another public restroom. I would rather have a place with decent coffee, rather than another cookie-cutter chain.



    There doesn't really seem to be a shortage of places with decent coffee in the neighborhood.
  • Williamsburg is about to get its first Starbucks, and one of the local places that will be impacted wrote this open letter:

    http://www.thewestbrooklyn.com/the-west-is-ready-for-williamsburgs-first-starbucks/


    I hope one of our local coffee shops does the same thing.

    ....because this thread is getting kinda slow.
  • I think the West is making a great point. Other coffee shops can potentially offer additional things, or better quality on certain items. Personally I don't like the sweet stuff (brownies, etc) at Starbucks. But I've had delicious homemade little treats at various coffee shops in this area. So while I might pick up my latte at Starbucks, I would go somewhere else on Franklin for the coffee cake.

    That being said. Will this new Starbucks sell coffee mugs with pictures from our hood? Pics of Brooklyn Museum and such?
  • whynot_31 said:

    Williamsburg is about to get its first Starbucks, and one of the local places that will be impacted wrote this open letter:

    http://www.thewestbrooklyn.com/the-west-is-ready-for-williamsburgs-first-starbucks/



    I made basically this same point to Tony in the Coffee Shop happenings thread. Few locals going to the Pulp & Bean now will switch to Starbucks. But Starbucks will draw more people to his block from outside the immediate area. Some will see and learn about his place and choose to go there in the future. We'll find out in the fall, but I think Starbucks won't hurt his business at all. It should also bring more foot traffic for Bob & Betty as well.
  • Proximity to Pulp and Bean:

    image
  • Seeing it now I'm more convinced than ever it will be great for P&B's business (as well as the value of the property it's on). There will be plenty of people who rarely visit Franklin who will Google/Yelp up the nearest Starbucks and start making more trips that way. Many of these will notice the coffee shop next door and decide to give it a try as well. It's even better for P&B that the Starbucks is on that side of the building as opposed to facing EP.

    Happy to take any friendly wager on this, and Tony can let us know who's right once there's been time to test my prediction.
  • Given the number of new developments coming on line, and on the way, I think there will be enough demand for many (but not all) of the present coffee shops.

    The Pulp and Bean has an excellent location, and it could likely still make money as a coffee shop in its present location.

    The question is, could it make MORE money doing something else.    

    Ice Cream?
  • whynot_31 said:

    Given the number of new developments coming on line, and on the way, I think there will be enough demand for many (but not all) of the present coffee shops.


    The Pulp and Bean has an excellent location, and it could likely still make money as a coffee shop in its present location.

    The question is, could it make MORE money doing something else.    

    Ice Cream?


    There's already that ice cream shop on Classon! :) 

    That reminds me, I'm waiting for that dessert shop to open on Franklin south of EP...
  • Neither has as good of a location (i.e. amount of foot traffic of people with disposable income)  as P & B.    

     
  • That reminds me, I'm waiting for that dessert shop to open on Franklin south of EP...



    They're still saying 2014... I'd bet on Feb/March...

    http://drunkbakers.tumblr.com/post/96711460982/the-storefront-is-finally-complete-now-we-just
  • whynot_31 said:

    Neither has as good of a location (i.e. amount of foot traffic of people with disposable income)  as P & B.    


     


    There's also a fro-yo place across the street.
  • Had to return to the board for this big occasion
  • Anyone else notice that, at night, the north corners of EP and Franklin are darker than further down the block?  It seems weird.  I walked by last night to check out the area, and the corner just felt weird.  It may be that the lights are simply our or that the storefronts are not set/lit up yet, but still...

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