Fourth Avenue. Is it going to happen?
  • Lots of condos and commercial development has been built on 4th Avenue over the past few years. However, development of a real commercial strip and "walk ability" seems to remain several years away.

    Despite a few condos, the area has never really appealed to me.

    While one certainly gets a bigger apt there than in center Slope or the majority of Manhattan, would you buy a 2br condo there for, say, 750k?

    http://www.elliman.com/new-york-city/500-fourth-avenue-500-fourth-avenue-brooklyn


  • No, I would not spend 750k on a 2 bedroom apartment on 4th. The developers are given the right to build whatever they want on the strip so its very unlikely that it will be as picturesque as center park slope. Additionally, if they don't reduce the traffic from 3 lanes each way to 2 lanes, it will remain a very noisy corridor.

    Besides...for 750k you can get a really nice 2 bedroom in center slope.


  • whynot_31 said:

    While one certainly gets a bigger apt there than in center Slope or the majority of Manhattan, would you buy a 2br condo there for, say, 750k?

    http://www.elliman.com/new-york-city/500-fourth-avenue-500-fourth-avenue-brooklyn


    image


  • Additionally, if they don't reduce the traffic from 3 lanes each way to 2 lanes, it will remain a very noisy corridor.

    I've got two words for you:

    Truck route.

    While those people that purchased on 4th Avenue may be clamoring for this I think the DOT truck folks will fight the DOT traffic calming people because this is the major Gowanus alternative,


  • north end of that strip has change a ton over the past few years tons of new shops etc...


  • homeowner said:

    Additionally, if they don't reduce the traffic from 3 lanes each way to 2 lanes, it will remain a very noisy corridor.

    I've got two words for you:

    Truck route.

    While those people that purchased on 4th Avenue may be clamoring for this I think the DOT truck folks will fight the DOT traffic calming people because this is the major Gowanus alternative,



    Yes, I think anyone who believes that the truck route is going away just because they and their neighbors want it to, is naive.

    That said, I could see buying on the Park Slope side of 4th, much more than on the Gowanus side. You can walk to the stores and restaurants on 5th, and (if you are on a high enough floor), you likely get some Manhattan views.

    Is the local school district yet filled with parents fretting over whether their 10 year old is being appropriately prepared for a private college?


  • The competitive side of me loves beating Brownstoner to a story by a few days...

    Over the past several months a few different initiatives have launched to address quality-of-life issues on 4th Avenue, and now another group, Forth on Fourth Avenue, or FOFA, joins the fray. FOFA was established as a Park Slope Civic Council committee earlier this month and is now focusing on several projects, including blocking the establishment of a drive-thru at the McDonald’s coming to the old KFC space on Warren; piloting a project between Bergen and Degraw to focus on street greening; and looking for ways to encourage “good neighbors” by sponsoring clean-ups and tree-planting initiatives. The committee meets the second Tuesday of every month 8 a.m. at the Brooklyn Lyceum, if you’re interested.

    http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2012/03/slope-group-looks-to-improve-4th-avenue/#disqus_thread


  • lots of $ being spent by developers on 4th Ave sites:

    The development site on the northeast corner of 6th Street and 4th Avenue, 363 4th Avenue, just sold for $10.7 million. It was on the market for $14 million. A listing for the site said there were approved plans for a 106-unit building with 43 parking spots...

    http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2012/03/big-4th-avenue-development-site-sells/#disqus_thread


  • Yet, according to the Tri-State Transportation Campaign, it continues to be not very friendly to pedestrians:

    The pastel colored markers look so pretty until you realize that this is a map marking the location of the 139 pedestrian deaths in Brooklyn from 2008-2010. (Green markers = children under 15; blue = people ages 16 - 59; purple = people over 60.)

    The road is apparently tied for 3rd most dangerous road in Brooklyn.

    http://www.tstc.org/reports/danger12/brooklyn.pdf

    press: http://parkslope.patch.com/articles/fourth-ave-tied-for-third-most-dangerous-road-in-brooklyn-for-peds


  • However, the large residential developments continue to rise.

    http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2012/09/attack-of-the-developments-on-4th-avenue/?stream=true

    I'm mildly amazed....


  • No chance. I might pay about half of that to live at the bottom of a hill in the sorta-Slope and dodge traffic, but it would have to be a nice friggin' place.


  • Now is when it gets fun.

    The concerns of those who would like traffic to be able to move on a major thoroughfare come head to head with those who would like a walkable, safe neighborhood:

    http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2013/06/8531046/councilmen-sadik-khan-dont-let-park-slope-community-board-stop-you

    We have to choose, and the choice might not be up to you "Park Slope".....


  • A recent zoning change has mandated retail on the first floor, which is causing retail to appear.

    http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2014/07/25/retail_watch.php

    The hope is that this won't merely be an avenue of condos with triple paned glass by a loud road....
  • I can't imagine that Fourth Ave (I'm at the north end) will homogenize in the next 10 years. It will mixed and mediocre for a long time (no offense to the gems along the way). It won't be an avenue of condos. There are too many schools and drive-in (gas stations, fast food) businesses breaking it up, along with holdouts (like the corner building at Butler by the Aria development) that will keep the ave from being all new condo development.

    And that's good, in my book. What's bad is that there are so many crappy spots along the way--like the KFC between Warren and St Marks Pl that's boarded up.

  • The drive-in businesses on 4th Ave. won't be long for this world if the current boom continues. This building is going in where the McDonald's was:
    http://ny.curbed.com/tags/275-fourth-avenue
    It's actually pretty cool looking. And the McDonald's lot went for $15M, which makes selling awful tempting for auto-oriented property owners.
  • There will be a few that will hold out for more, but I agree with @ehgee, those lots are ripe for the picking.

    Downtown Brooklyn seems to have exploded with construction again over the past year.  It seems like almost every vacant lot now has something going up.  There was a lot at the corner of Bond and State(?) that was filled with junk cars for years and years.  When the area started coming up, I thought for sure this spot would get picked up, but it didn't. Then the market crashed, so I thought it was going to be a long time before something happened there.  But, last month I walked by and all the cars were gone.  So, either the owner decided it was time to clean up, or the lot has been sold in preparation for something to go there.
  • I've heard that there are 10,000 new residential units of housing expected to come on line in Brooklyn over the next couple of years. The vast majority are not affordable housing, so I'm wondering if the luxury market can continue to explode at the pace it has been and how some of these outlying developments are going to stack up when there are tons of empty units in downtown BK 1 or 2 stops away from the city.

    I also wonder how the already crowded transit is going to absorb all of these people commuting daily?
  • I suspect that many are not going to commute into Manhattan everyday.

    They may work in Downtown Bklyn, which might help a little.

    But, overall, I agree: There is going to be a lot more of us. The city is about to become more densely populated.
  • If I could spend $750,000 I would live in Manhattan in a smaller place, but that's me. That said, I currently live in a ground floor apartment on 4th avenue that is practically on the street. I am a light sleeper and I have to say it is not noisy at night for sleeping at all.
  • homeowner said:

    I've heard that there are 10,000 new residential units of housing expected to come on line in Brooklyn over the next couple of years. The vast majority are not affordable housing, so I'm wondering if the luxury market can continue to explode at the pace it has been and how some of these outlying developments are going to stack up when there are tons of empty units in downtown BK 1 or 2 stops away from the city.



    That's the goal of those of us who like new construction that aren't real estate developers. That, and that there will be enough luxury housing will be built that rich people will blow their money on it, rather than obscenely expensive conversions of tenements.

    That said, Brooklyn's population has grown by 87,400 in the last 3 years:
    http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/census/popcur.shtml
    That's 1 unit in the next couple years for every 9 new people that moved in during 3 years of slow construction, and presumably more coming in the next couple years.
  • Impressive.  Next stop..., Empire, Flatbush, followed by Utica.  Or am I just dreaming?
  • In this immediate area, I'd look at:

    1. Flatbush between Atlantic and GAP. (2017?)

    2. Empire (2015)

    3. Atlantic between Vanderbilt and Nostrand. (2018)

  • I feel like Flatbush between Atlantic and GAP may get the zoning by 2017, but the development will take quite a bit longer.  

    Empire and Atlantic between Vanderbilt and Nostrand are ripe - once the zoning comes through, buildings are going to go up fast.  

    And so is Utica, particularly south of Empire.  I want Utica to turn so badly, and once it does, Lincoln Terrace Park won't be far behind.  I am looking forward to it being an inviting place for families and children to hang out; an environment similar to Brower Park with even more potential.
  • This 4th Avenue block is one of the ones the predated the storage places and auto body shops:

    http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20140924/park-slope/new-high-rise-development-moving-forward-on-fourth-avenue