NYC begins a Municipal ID program
  • In NYC, lots of people are denied the ability to open a bank account or are held by police until their identity can be verified, because they lack an identification card.

    Immigrants, homeless people, and people recently released from jail or prison are among those most at risk.

    As you may have heard, NYC is going to attempt to save tax dollars and improve the well being of these folks by issuing municipal ID cards.

    In this thread, you can not only jabber about the program, but also apply for a really challenging senior position within it!

    http://www.nynp.biz/index.php/new-jobs/21515-director-of-program-integrity-for-the-municipal-id-project-new-york-city-human-resources-administration-hra
  • And individuals who are in the US illegally will also benefit from this ID program.  Worst. Idea. Ever.
  • Yes, undocumented/illegal immigrants are a group that will be targeted to receive the IDs.

    The goal is cost saving.

    Some estimates state that up to 20% of NYC residents, about 1.8m people, are illegal.

    The vast majority of legal immigrants have ID, and won't benefit.
  • Wow, I just read the job description. What a thankless job.
  • In addition to thankless, the "director of program integrity" position is also in a tough spot.

    How, exactly, does one go about issuing IDs to folks who have very weak forms of identification, while ensuring that they really are who they claim to be?

    ...if the ID has no credibility, no one will respect it and the purpose of the program will be defeated.
  • whynot_31 said:

    Yes, undocumented/illegal immigrants are a group that will be targeted to receive the IDs.

    The goal is cost saving.

    Some estimates state that up to 20% of NYC residents, about 1.8m people, are illegal.

    The vast majority of legal immigrants have ID, and won't benefit.



    I'm not sure I understand the cost savings, but I just don't like the idea of rewarding illegal activity.  Many of us are immigrants or descendants of immigrants.  I am all for immigration, but legal immigration.  I personally, and I'm sure others, wouldn't reward a trespasser or someone breaking and entering into my, or their, home.  The "guest" needs to ring the doorbell and get invited in.  This seems to be a slippery slope.
  • And...how do we stop these people from getting more than one ID under different names since their original proofs may be phony. Hell...if people who work for the TSA don't know that the District of Columbia is part of the United States can we expect the people doing verifications to know the documents of people from other countries???
  • In this instance, the illegal immigrants will benefit, but the city is likely motiviated by a desire to avoid expensive detentions while police wait to verify a person's ID for something like jumping a turnstile (or other offense that people are not deported for).

    An ID is also handy when providing government services. Once the city provides ID to more people, it will be more difficult for contracted agencies (ie nonprofits) to fraudently inflate the numbers of people they serve to inflate their charges to the city.

    This is believed to result in cost savings, because the city will require said non-profits to get copies of the IDs of "most people" who walk thru their doors, and the "over billing" will stop.
  • I hope we live to see it work out that way.
  • Yes, me too.

    I like that it acknowledges that these folks are here to stay and (whether we like "them" or not) we should make the best of it.

    I don't see illegal immigration slowing down until the countries of origin have a standard of living similar to ours.

    There are three ways that can happen:

    1. The standard of living of the country of origin can improve, thru development and increased skills.

    2. Our Standard of living can drop.

    3. A combination of one and two.

    I don't see any of the above happening fast enough to address the problem, and lots of folks benefit from the status quo.
  • @whynot_31 mentions "An ID is also handy when providing government services. Once the city provides ID to more people, it will be more difficult for contracted agencies (ie nonprofits) to fraudulently inflate the numbers of people they serve to inflate their charges to the city."

    I get that, but the US doesn't need to provide "them" with all the conveniences, benefits, and government services as if they are here legally (and paying taxes) in the first place.  The US can, and should, reduce the incentive for "them" to reside here illegally at the cost of legal residents and taxpayers, many of whom are barely scraping by while paying more than there fair share as a result of "them."

    Ring the doorbell, and as an "invited guest," you get all the amenities (and participate in the cost/pay taxes)... not by barging in.
  • To my knowledge, this ID doesn't expand any of the services illegal immigrants are already eligible for.

    However, I suspect the ID will make it easier to secure benefits that their born-in-the US children are eligible for.

    ...I'd be interested in seeing what % of the IDs they believe will be provided to illegal immigrants, vs the other target groups: homeless, just released from prison, those who want a city ID while they get their paperwork together to get better ID.


  • southeast said: whynot_31 said: Many of us are immigrants or descendants of immigrants.  

    There are those of us who are descendants of chattel who were not brought here of their own volition. This chattel was not deported when freed. #
    justsaying

    I agree with @whynot_31 that these undocumented people are likely not going anywhere whether  we like it or not. This is a way of dealing with the current reality. 
  • The degree to which illegal immigrants are here of their own volition is a subject of great debate.

    Like the chattel of ages ago, many of the illegal immigrants are here under indentured servant arrangements, and the vast majority of us "here" benefit from their very cheap labor.

    Using this lens, the city isn't getting rid of this labor, it is just minimizing its negative externalities.

    http://economics.fundamentalfinance.com/negative-externality.php

    Using this lens, as long as we gain more than we lose from their presence, it really doesn't matter how many more of them come as a result of receiving an ID from HRA.
  • Today, the NYT ran a piece about how inexpensive immigrant NYS farm labor is:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/08/nyregion/in-harvest-season-endless-hours-with-no-overtime-for-new-york-farmworkers.html?ref=nyregion&_r=0

    And, legislators are trying to change the situation at the state level:
    http://us3.campaign-archive2.com/?u=ca0fb41d668202ba6cc542ca8&id=0e254f42f5&e=b04317f9a2

    Next stop, NYC's food service industry?
  • One of the concerns advocates have for this program is that they will be only used by marginalized people and therefore will be a target when in use.  This will only work to include these people in our society if a broad selection of people also get and use them.   For this reason I will be getting one.  I wonder if these will be a way to prove age not just identity and whether people like the TSA will allow them to board planes and such. 
  • @tateinbk

    I am not sure if TSA will accept it for travel within the country. That would be very fraught with hazards.

    But you are right, this ID will be for folks who do not have enough documents to obtain a passport, NYS issued ID, or a NYC issued EBT card.

    Each of those is far out of reach for the group being served.

    Undocumented immigrants tend to only be able to engage in off the books employment, so I do not believe showing such an ID would further marginalize this subset when seeking work.

    Other subsets are legally in the country but are often in and out of institutions ( jail, prison, psych, shelters). As a result not having enough ID for Medicaid, they are only eligible for "free" healthcare outside of said institutions.

    I imagine the city hospitals see the new ID as a way to provide better care, and reliably obtain health histories.

    Ditto the shelter system and the Dept of Corrections.

    ....BTW, I believe illegal immigrants utilize the shelter system and end up in jail less frequently than other groups of poor, relatively young, male, New Yorkers. 

     They, after all, must be well enough to support themselves without a government safety net, and are often deported if found guilty of a felony.
  • "In NYC, lots of people are denied the ability to open a bank account ..:"

    1 in 10 unbanked in NYC

    There are no such barriers with Bitcoin.
    All you need is a mobile phone 
    e.g.


  • As discussed above, the police frequently arrest people who do not have ID, whom would otherwise receive a summons.

    They do this because it makes no sense to issue a summons to someone whose identity can not be verified; what is to stop the person from lying about who they are?

    Few cops want to do the work necessary to verify the ID of someone via computer systems, and they are often rewarded for making arrests.

    This article on fare enforcement brings up some interesting points: http://m.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/fare-evasion-arrests-surge-years-article-1.1906667

    Hopefully the next article will look at how many would have been issued summons if they had possessed IDs, and estimate the cost savings from not arresting them.

    After all, people are not deported for jumping a turnstile, and (even for those who are legally in the country) the deterrence difference between receiving a fine and being arrested for such an offense seems difficult to quantify and qualify.

    Lets spend our criminal justice dollars wisely.
  • The city is also incentivizing getting the ID:

    These cultural insitutions were encouraged to offer these discounts....

    http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/home/downloads/pdf/press-releases/2014/cig_basic_membership_package_proposals.pdf
  • Awesome to get the Cultural Institutions Ground organizations. Not many people know that they operate in city owned buildings/space, so all they pay are utilities and programmatic expenses. NYC pays for many infrastructure expenses. They are a discrete group of cultural rigs that get something like 80 percent of department of cultural affairs' grants. The ban cinema incentives alone make me want one of these Ids!
  • I suspect incentivizing them is a way to popularize the IDs and thus remove the stigma @tateinbk discusses above (August 8th).

    ...pretty smart. 
  • Democrats state that if they were to gain control of the NYS Senate, undocumented (or, if you prefer, illegal) immigrants would also be able to get drivers licenses and sit on juries: 

    http://ourtimepress.com/?p=15431
  • Sit on juries????  Seriously?!  So someone, technically, a criminal, in the midst of committing a crime will determine the future of those charged with doing a crime.  Umm...
  • While I don't watch Fox News, I can imagine it giving this bill lots of coverage if it ever makes it to the senate floor.

    I also can't imagine that it would pass even if the Democrats were to gain control of the NYS Senate.
  • It never occurred to me that they would charge for it anything aside from administrative/processing fees. So every year you have to pay for it, it expires, like a club membership? (it also seems from their wording that the free cultural incentives are only for the first year to drive membership)
  • That is not my understanding

    I believe once you have it, it will be valid for a few years (lets assume 3 years from the date of issuance)

    It is free to get in 2015.

    In 2016, the ID might cost $20 and not expire until its date of issuance in 2019.
  • mamacita said:

    (it also seems from their wording that the free cultural incentives are only for the first year to drive membership)



    I got the same feeling and hope that is not the case.  I would drop it like a hot potato.  I don't particularly agree with it's primary goal/purpose, but my family can use the discounts.  So if that ceases to exist, I have no incentive to wait in line and/or pay to renew.
  • I doubt the museums could offer the memberships for free over the long term.

    A substantial part of their revenue comes from memberships, and they would not want to lose that funding stream.
  • Indeed, on a related thread @whatchuwant writes:

    Fine print:


     "This free membership package will not be available to existing members of a participating institution or individuals whose membership has lapsed since January 1, 2012. However, existing or recently lapsed members of a given institution can use their Municipal ID to obtain free membership at all other participating institutions."


    http://www.brooklynian.com/discussion/comment/554889#Comment_554889

    So, they seem to want the membership benefits to be primarily used by people who would otherwise not go to museums: The low income, under priviledged folks we talk about above....

  • So the one reason why I would have gotten this ID is quickly fading...
  • whynot_31 said:




    http://www.brooklynian.com/discussion/comment/554889#Comment_554889

    So, they seem to want the membership benefits to be primarily used by people who would otherwise not go to museums: The low income, under priviledged folks we talk about above....



    Except those who are from that group in the area cannot use that to go to the Prospect Park Zoo down the street. I wonder why that zoo didn't buy into that yet.
  • @mugofmead - I didn't even notice the Bronx zoo you mentioned in the other thread as I was only looking out for Brooklyn.  But when I searched the document for "zoo," I noted that the Wildlife Conservation Society includes "Free general admission for one adult to the Bronx Zoo, New York Aquarium, Central Park Zoo, Prospect Park Zoo and Queens Zoo."  So we are good. :)

  • A few of the places only allow free admission for one person.

    That is different than an actual membership, which often allows an entire household entrance.
  • @whynot_31 - Well, you know what this means - a family outing to get the ID. :)
  • I had thought this would mean we wouldn't need to get another family membership for the zoo.  Before we had received the delux one as a gift.  But if all my son's babysitters and family members gets an ID I wouldn't need to also get the caregiver delux membership, and instead have the smaller, parents and child only membership.  

    Of course this isn't going to last for too long, it's completely promotional.  But it's a great chance to see just how often my family goes to these places.  It will answer the question if it's really worth joining a couple places, specifically the children's museum for us.  It's a free, one year opportunity to check out some culture.  I can't see any good reasoning for scoffing that.

    I'm curious how it changes donation-admittance places like the Natural History museum.  Will membership also mean free entrance to the planetarium and special exhibits? 
  • I wonder how they have estimated the utilization of the benefits they are offering
  • The DMV's non-driver ID isn't free. The regular fee (for people who aren't seniors or receiving SSI) is $10 or $14 and expires in 4 or 8 years. So I never imagined this would be free either. 

    Next year everyone has the opportunity to get a free card that will give them a free one-year membership to 33 different institutions across all five boroughs -- as a bonus to help those people who actually need the card (because anyone who is getting the ID purely for the memberships clearly doesn't need it). I don't see what all the complaining about what places might not be on the list or how long the free memberships will last is about. 
  • @nothinlikeabklyngirl - you really have to read the recent comments above together with the following discussion: http://www.brooklynian.com/discussion/44845/memberships-to-crown-heights-attractions
  • Thanks, @southeast for the clarification. I read the other discussion and I get that some people won't be able to take advantage of all the freebies because of existing/past memberships, and I know that you were looking specifically for a CH-based multi membership. I just wanted to remind everyone that the point of this ID is to help a population in need: 

    "the cards are particularly valuable for the most vulnerable community members -- undocumented immigrants, the homeless, foster youth, the elderly and others who may have difficulty obtaining and retaining other government-issued ID." (http://populardemocracy.org/campaign/expanding-municipal-id-cards)

    For folks like you and me, who have the luxury of not having to worry about ID, the rest is gravy.
  • I like gravy.
  • In addition to tasting good, the gravy might be designed to address some of @tateinbk 's concerns:

    tateinbk said:

    One of the concerns advocates have for this program is that they will be only used by marginalized people and therefore will be a target when in use.  This will only work to include these people in our society if a broad selection of people also get and use them.   For this reason I will be getting one.




  • Part of an overall strategy by DeBlasio to make the city a sanctuary for immigrants, whether they are legal or not:

    http://www1.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/520-14/mayor-bill-de-blasio-signs-law-bills-dramatically-reduce-new-york-city-s-cooperation-with#/0
  • Pre-launch press:

    "The ID will be available to all New York City residents 14 years and above regardless of immigration status or homelessness. It will be free for the first year and valid for five years after that. The cost for successive years has not yet been determined, said city officials."


  • Running late, aren't we...  Still no info on enrollment centers.  I like the idea that it will serve as a library card as well.
  • The email I got said sites are open now. 
    Here's where you can go in Brooklyn to apply for your IDNYC: 

    Brooklyn Business Center - DOF
    210 Joralemon Street, 1st Floor
    Brooklyn, NY 11201
    (at Joralemon St and Court St)
    Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Fri: 8:30 a.m. - 4:30 p.m. 

    Brooklyn Public Library Central Branch - BPL
    10 Grand Army Plaza
    Brooklyn, NY 11238
    (at Eastern Parkway and Flatbush Ave)
    Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu: 9:00 a.m. - 9:00 p.m.
    Fri, Sat: 9:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.
    Sun: 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m. 

    Sunset Park Recreation Center - DPR
    7th Avenue at 43rd Street
    Brooklyn, NY 11232
    Opening Spring 2015
    Hours To Be Announced 

  • Very exciting. I am thrilled about it functioning as an all-access Library Card. This is just like what many European countries have, to encourage their locals to go to the Louvre or the Picasso Museum at a great discount. 

    AND there is a 5% discount at Food Bazaar!
  • Rumor has it the line at the Brooklyn Public Library is really really long and there are only two clerks to handle it.  But I'm Really Excited!  
    :)
  • tateinbk said:

    Rumor has it the line at the Brooklyn Public Library is really really long and there are only two clerks to handle it.  But I'm Really Excited!  

    :)


    @tateinbk - So it started today?  For some reason, I got the impression from the NYT article that they will start next Monday.
  • It started today.  It sounds like the wait is at least 1.5 hrs.
  • Here is an article written about the program from a policy wonk view: http://www.gothamgazette.com/index.php/government/5509-84m-muni-id-program-budget-includes-18m-for-advertising

    The goals seem attainable to me.
  • Apparently all the lines are long, so long that the city is no longer taking walk-ins. Instead people need to make an appointment at http://www1.nyc.gov/site/idnyc/index.page.

  • Apparently all the lines are long, so long that the city is no longer taking walk-ins. Instead people need to make an appointment at http://www1.nyc.gov/site/idnyc/index.page.




    When I try to schedule an appointment it only lets me select the Department of Finance in the Bronx.  With no weekend availability.  Looks like I won't be getting one of these for a long time.
  • Heh, nothing is coming up for me.  Just a blank page when I click "Make an Appointment"
  • We may need to take into account that the whole program was only allocated $8.4M, and that $1.8M of that is for advertising.

    NYC does not roll out its ID with same efficiency as AMEX rolls out a new card for many reasons....

    http://www.gothamgazette.com/index.php/government/5509-84m-muni-id-program-budget-includes-18m-for-advertising
  • Plus, they gave the job to HRA because they have experience maintaining people's privacy and such.  In my experience HRA specializes in lines and making simple things way harder than they should be.  Plus, throw in some workers that make the DMV employees look peppy and it's all a winning combination.  

    Are places like Single Stop able to process/enter requests like they can with the various services?  That would help the situation along.  Because at this rate, all that advertising may be a waste if no one can get a card in any sort of time.  Maybe they need volunteers to go around and make sure everyone's forms are filled out before getting to the front of the line?
  • I don't think the nonprofits that operate Single Stops have received any funding, authority or training on the municipal ID yet.

    The advertising and free press may result in lines that overwhelm the clerks, but I suspect that this is a "good problem to have".

    Some press about lines allows proponents of this program to paint the undocumented (illegal, etc) as wanting to join the fold.

    They go from being thought of as "disorganized" or "criminals"

    - toward -

    "wanting to comply" or "doing what they can to get new lives"
  • It seems no one has yet had the courage to tell advocates for veterans "the reason we have not created a way to designate veteran status on the Municipal ID is that if they have what is required to prove their Veteran status they can likely achieve alternate ID.

    http://gothamgazette.com/index.php/government/5508-military-veteran-designation-on-municipal-ids-delayed
  • I just checked next available appointments in Brooklyn. We're talking June.

    Maybe time to throw in a few more resources?

    My main incentive for getting this card is to get free memberships at so many different cultural institutions. I know these freebies are only good the first year. But is the first year 2015, or the first year that the cardholder holds the card?

  • So you absolutely have to have an appointment? I agree with the comment above ^^ I'd want to take full advantage of the freebies and not have to wait till june or july etc..
  • This is definitely completely legible and usable.

    Screen Shot 2015-01-19 at 4.26.13 PM



  • @mamacita, I am really not sure. I stopped by the library at Grand Army Plaza on Saturday, and there was a long line and a sign that announced that there were no more walk-in appointments for that day. Which leads me to believe that they do take walk-ins, at least to a certain degree. But when I went online it just said to make an appointment. Confused.
  • No more walk-ins. 

    The card is valid for a year from from when you first use it, not the start of the calendar year.
  • If the majority of the cards are secured by middle class folks who seek museum discounts, the cost saving goals discussed above will not be achieved.

    As a result, the city should create a system to prioritze getting ID to persons most likely to cost the city money should they remain without ID.
  • ... if you can get it...
  • Yup.   Today's NYT:

    "As recently as Thursday, the earliest appointment available anywhere in the city was on May 18. On Friday, though, the city added 70,000 new appointment slots before June 30, including some as early as Feb. 9.

    Critics have likened the program’s bumpy start to the fraught rollout of the health-insurance exchange website created under the Affordable Care Act, a comparison that city officials, including Mr. de Blasio, a Democrat, have rebutted.

    Still, the problems have frustrated many prospective applicants and even some of the city’s collaborators in the effort."
  • And, caused the city to desperately seek additional staff to process all of the applicants:

    https://a127-jobs.nyc.gov/jobsearch.html?keyword=Enrollment

    (The jobs are listed under HRA after you click the above)
  • I still say if the city wanted lines and frustration they really did the right thing in having HRA handle the situation.  If they didn't want this outcome, what in the heck were they thinking?
  • While HRA does excel at not being prepared for the number of people who want its services, this may actually be a case under estimating demand.

    I agree, one can't actually claim "surprise" with regard to the number people who seek food stamps and other forms of assistance for their families. Such demand is not new.
  • One month later, the city is still struggling to meet demand, and opens new enrollment center.

  • whynot_31 said:

    One month later, the city is still struggling to meet demand, and opens new enrollment center.




    I was able to get an April 7th appointment in Manhattan.  Had to book it in early February.
  • I kinda gave up.
  • I would love to know what portion of the IDs that have so far been issued, were actually issued to persons who needed a solid ID.

    My fear is that many of the appointments are being secured by middle class folks who seek the ID as result of its museum discounts, as opposed to folks who need an ID to provide their identity.
  • Here is a more than I ever wanted to know about the program's achievements and shortcomings to date: http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20150402/BLOGS04/150409975
  • I applied for my ID last week. Most of the people around me at the Water Street location had foreign documents with them and they were clearly not Russian oligarchs.
  • I suspect they were not wealthy Chinese oligarchs either. They have other ways of getting solid ID.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelcole/2014/05/13/wealthy-chinese-accounted-for-80-of-u-s-investor-visas-in-2013/

  • The city has finally caught up with demand for the ID: One can now get an appointment within hours or days. They have created one reservation system for all of the locations.

    https://idnyc.appointment-plus.com

    Hopefully they will not fall behind again, and will be able to do more outreach to populations that cost the city lots of $ when they do not have ID.

    If we can blame the mayor, I suspect Bloomberg would have fixed this much sooner and allotted far more resources.

  • Just made my appointment. Its free and offers free membership to some great institutions for all of 2015, so why not? 
  • Done with my appointment. I had an 11:20 AM appointment, but wasn't out of there until 12:40 PM, so be warned that you're not necessarily in for a brief stay. Also, a few of the staff members seem to be very rude, which, while amusing to witness, was a sad display of customer service. 
  • I found it odd that they don't issue them on site; They mail it to you 4-6 weeks later.

    Mine should arrive in a few weeks.

    Doesn't the DMV give you ID the same day?
  • I agree. They certainly have the capability to do so. 

    I'm not sure what the DMV does generally. I know that, for drivers licenses at least, when I was turning in my out of state license for a NY license, they gave me a paper license until my permanent, plastic license came in the mail a few weeks later. 
  • I think that it has to do with the verification of identity and documents. They scan all the documentation you submit, and then they have to do a back-end processing to make sure that tourists from Florida aren't trying to get the ID for their trips to the Bronx Zoo and the Museum of Natural History. 
  • That makes sense. And most of the people in line with me didn't seem to be citizens as they had foreign passports, which makes identity verification even tougher. Still, for folks like me with a NYS ID (I'm only getting the IDNYC for the free memberships that come with it), I hope the process is much shorter!
  • I definitely got my ID within a week of going to the appointment (I applied with a NY state ID). :)
  • There is hope, then (not holding my breath, though)! 
  • Starting Monday parents must now go in person with a calid ID to be enrolled in the online portal. Through this parents can see state test scores, reports, attendance, etc.
    until this past January parents simply needed their child's ID number and could log in. Now they need to come in with an ID to create an account. Terrible idea that will decrease parental usage. But definitely makes me glad these IDs exist.
  • Above, I discussed how requiring nonprofits to require IDs would reduce the amount of -um- exaggeration re: the number of people served.

    I wonder how many more places are going to start requiring ID for services as time goes on.

    Will a parent have to show a NYC ID to enroll their 4 year old in UPK?
  • At many city museums (the ones occupying city owned land, funded by the city, etc.), the admission fees are suggested prices. You can give as little as a penny if that's what you want to give.

    The DMV's non-driver ID is perfect: it's cheap, good for many  years, and they don't track where you're going when you use it... 

    By the way, as someone who's had an EBT card for a while, I have no idea why it takes so long for them to get the municipal ID out to people. Periodically, I've had to get my EBT card replaced because the strip on the back wears out after a while. Because HRA has your signature and photo on file, you can get a replacement within 10 - 15 minutes of arriving at the place that issues them. Really. And it becomes active within 20-30 minutes. Why can't they apply the same technology to the municipal ID? I had my first EBT card within about half an hour, tops.

    I guess I probably sound a little paranoid about not wanting the city to have another way to track what I'm doing. It just sucks enough to have to be broke enough to need food stamps and have to recertify for that, why add to the misery...
  • I agree. 

    To your larger point, though: is the city actually tracking you? The only thing I could imagine is the city asking for a tally of how many IDNYC members are actually taking advantage of the memberships. And, even then I don't see things being too intrusive (and I hope that users who have the card and have utilized the benefits linked to the card will shed some light onto this) as I doubt you'd be scanning/swiping your card into the establishments. 

    As far as the suggested prices go, I agree there, though I'll add that many people are not comfortable doing so/are shamed out of doing so by attendants at these museums; I'm not one of those people, but I know that it happens. Still, the ID also gets you into places where admission is not suggested (i.e. the NY Botanical Garden and Bronx Zoo). 
  • I do hope that the tracking shows that NYC ID users are using the museums and whatnot.

    I hope they have a way to parse out the users into "low income people" and "non low income people".

    Otherwise, I fear that the program will claim credit for causing increased attendance by low income people, when it merely gave middle class folks a free ride.
  • Museum attendants often make guests feel uncomfortable, and sometimes are a bit misleading too. At the Met, I've experienced the attendants ringing me up for $20 with the $20 appearing on the screen as soon as I walk up, not saying anything about it being a suggested admission. I can see tourists who may be confused or those less confident just feeling shamed into paying it. At the Brooklyn Museum, which I visit frequently, it varies by attendant. I had one give me a spiel the second I walked up explaining that they had suggested admission and they suggest adults pay $16. When I gave her the $5 I had already planned to pay she wasn't very happy and it annoyed me. I had stopped by for just an hour to catch a friend there and was just at the museum a couple weeks prior.

    I'll happily take that free membership, if only to avoid those awkward/irritating moments.
  • That's definitely a plus of getting the free membership. Still, I'm going to go to the Brooklyn Museum before I get my card, just so I can pay $0.50 and irritate an attendant. Especially since the IDNYC went into effect, I believe that any attendant at a "suggested admission" establishment covered by the ID has a lot of nerve to try to guilt people into paying more than $1. 
  • I get that it takes a lot of money to run a museum and I love the Bk museum and would like to support it. I think it's fair that they HOPE people who are able to pay closer to the suggested amount, but they shouldn't be judgemental when people don't, especially not knowing their circumstances. They don't know how frequently one visits or the persons financial status, regardless of how they look. I also feel if you are a tourist going to spend the day at the site it would make sense to pay more than someone from the neighborhood who stops by every month to check out new exhibits, meets friends, or takes visitors.

    In many countries, locals have a much lower rate for admissions tickets to sites than foreigners. I think that's fair. I find it sad that my low-income students from Brooklyn and their families don't experience a lot of NYC sights because of costs or lack of knowledge about the suggested donations. Maybe this ID will help a bit.
  • Mr. Crownheightster received his NYC I'd yesterday, eight days after he went for his appointment. He used a NY drivers license to apply. Yay!
  • I used my NYS drivers lic to apply for mine last week, so mine might come this week then.

    I wonder how they are measuring whether they are reaching the intended population. Are they going to count the total number of IDs issued and claim that all represent the target groups?

    Are they honest enough to parse out the people with the weakest amount of prior ID, and state that only the city only gained something substantial from giving THEM solid ID?
  • Good question. I guess they may try to pinpoint demographics roughly by using zip codes. Otherwise, and especially considering privacy laws, I don't know how they'd determine whether they are reaching their target groups based on how the application was worded. That is, unless I didn't read some of the fine print that gave them permission to conduct intensive background checks. 

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