Today's article on real estate in Crown Heights
  • This article doesn't say anything you don't already know, but we could use this thread to post future articles on the topic, for those who don't have google. :)

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-28/brooklyn-boom-squeezes-buyers-pushing-into-crown-heights.html
  • This one actually amazed me.  This is quite a hefty sum for this area, IMHO.  http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2014/08/crown-heights-south-flip-brings-in-1-85-million/
  • Bloomberg: bringing you six year old news today.
  • @southeast, I think that the housing stock on prime blocks in CHS is far and away more desireable than most of what's in CHN. You have detached, and semi-detached homes, most with driveways and/or garages. It doesn't shock me at all, especially when you think that people are paying $1.5 million for brick townhouses in Bed Stuy.
  • I've grown to expect houses in CHN and CHS to be between $1.3M and $2.3M.
  • The houses on Sullivan Place between Rogers Avenue and Bedford Avenue have driveways/garages as well.
  • @homeowner  I would agree with you.  I presume you are referring to CHSE.  I am not sure they have much of what you are describing on the west side of CHS; I don't really venture to that area.

    However, this is definitely a first.  Houses on President between Kingston and New York Avenues have got for that and more for a while now, but not really anywhere else in CHSE.  Until now.

    People are paying $1.5m for a brick townhouse in Bed Stuy because, as @whynot_31 once noted, nothing draws a crowd, like a crowd.  CHSE doesn't have the crowd (yet).  

    The alleys and driveways which are common in CHSE are indeed awesome.
  • Beautiful house, semi detached, and if in/near hassidic area its totally understandable it would fetch this price these days.  Not an area I desire, but desirable and necessary for others.  Meaning hassidic folks kinda need to live within their community and walking distance to schul . Thats why Gravesend houses are astronomically priced by our views, but not if youre a wealthy Syrian garment tycoon.
  • @goldemi1 - My understanding is that the house on Union which we are discussing was not sold to a member of the local Jewish community.

  • CROWN HEIGHTS:

    Median asking price: $987,000

    Number of houses listed: 40

    Average sale price as of July 2014: $460,271​

    Number of houses sold as of July 2014: 200

  • At the current rate of inflation, it shouldn't take Crown Heights long to go from $987k to over $1M.

    A lot of people will never get to own a home here, which is consistent with most expensive neighborhoods in the US.
  • whynot_31 said:


    A lot of people will never get to own a home here, which is consistent with most expensive neighborhoods in the US.


    Welcome to our world. :)
  • whynot_31 said:

    At the current rate of inflation, it shouldn't take Crown Heights long to go from $987k to over $1M.


    A lot of people will never get to own a home here, which is consistent with most expensive neighborhoods in the US.


    I'd agree, except that there is a huge gap between median asking price and average selling price, at least at present. CH is still not as expensive as the median asking price would make one think, though this depends on what area of CH one is looking and on the type of home, etc. 
  • Yes, the median price is misleading in that way.

    However, $427k is also pretty exclusive.

    We are rapidly becoming an area in which people move after selling their prior home, or after inheriting $.

    ....not many people are able to buy here solely using the funds they saved from their job as a bus driver, or NYC employee.

    They once could, but can not any longer.
  • Speaking of which, 591 Washington is now ready:

    image
  • While reading this article, I couldn't help but compare to what we have going on in our area - Crown Heights vs. Bed-stuy...

    http://brickunderground.com/blog/2014/09/moving_out_of_bed_stuy

  • Change is more difficult for some than others.
  • WHy was that article in Brickunderground.com published at all? Look out, Spike here comes another one.
  • 1.2 million - It's not a brownstone; it's attached; it's not large (the 3,720 Sq Ft noted includes the cellar), AND its in southeast CH!  - http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2014/10/house-of-the-day-1239-president-street/

    I don't recall seeing anything similar close to this price range.  This seems to be raising the bar in this area.
  • It is between NY and Nostrand, which is quite nice. The President St 2/5 stop is right there...
  • The location may be great as a result of the 2/5 stop, but the block is not particularly nice.  There is an ugly condo section in the middle on the north side, and a giant building/compound on the south side taking up half the block.  I never really liked the look of this block.

    And, added to above, it doesn't parking.

    Unless being that close to train station adds approximately 25% in value, I would say this listing is that much more than recent sales of comparable properties in the area, but further east. 
  • I don't watch that area that closely, so I'll take your word.

    I have noticed that people are taking the bars off the windows and porches.
  • As a follow up, holy cow! It's moving east, and fast.

    - On President St. - $1.5m for a brownstone practically on Troy: https://www.coldwellbanker.com/property/1540-President-Street-Brooklyn-New-York-11213-MLS-DC1540P

    - On Carroll St. - $1.3m for brick between Troy and Schenectady:  https://www.coldwellbanker.com/property/1580-Carroll-Street-Brooklyn-New-York-11213-MLS-389386

    Interestingly enough, North of EP on Linclon just off of Troy, "only"  $900k:  https://www.coldwellbanker.com/property/1221-Lincoln-Place-Brooklyn-New-York-11213-MLS-2688804

    I'm going to venture a guess that quite a few people in my neck of the woods are going to refinance using these comps, assuming they sell.
  • I do hope that they all get their asking prices.
  • one day soon Eastern Parkway will be glorious the full length. And living around Lincoln T
  • A lot of the 1920s 2-families just south of Eastern Parkway seem very competitively priced at a bit over ~$1M, considering they are a fast commute to Manhattan, an easy walk/bike ride to many of Brooklyn's nice neighborhoods, and the equal-sized rental space will pay much more of the mortgage than a small garden apartment. And many have parking, too.
  • Dawndew said:

    one day soon Eastern Parkway will be glorious the full length. And living around Lincoln T



    I can't wait for this to happen!  It will take a while though.  Utica will need to turn first.
  • As a result of Brooklyn being the worst in the US for home affordability, wealthier renters may find their way toward Utica.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-04/brooklyn-worst-in-u-s-for-home-affordability.html
  • Please; I can't wait. To Utica and beyond.
  • Someday, they'll build the Utica subway.

    Someday may be 2080.
  • What is this talk of a Utica subway?  This is the first I'm hearing of it.  Do you mean a subway under the full length of Utica?  That would be awesome.
  • In the same fashion as the Second Avenue subway, the Utica subway, along with the remainder of the Nostrand subway, were casualties first of the Great Depression and then postwar urban decline:

    Unfortunately, subway construction costs in the US are much higher than they are in, say, Spain, so property values in outer Brooklyn would need to surge far higher to justify any subway construction on Utica.

    Maybe after East New York and the South Bronx are full of high rises, and there are no pre-existing subway lines left to build up.

    There's actually a station shell for where the unbuilt South Williamsburg subway would cross on its way down Utica Avenue at the A train's Utica stop:
  • Thank you very much @ehgee.  This is very interesting.  And it would be nice if it actually happened in my lifetime.
  • it won't. the conditions under which the current subway system were built were atrocious and before the age of worker's safety and fair union wages. think of how long it's taken them to even just build an *extension* to the Q train as part of the "second avenue line" (which won't really extend further south than midtown, mark my words!), considering how wealthy that area is and how badly it was needed. we'll sooner say goodbye to all of lower manhattan due to flooding than see a Utica ave subway.

    come on down the B/Q train to flatbush. our train is lovely! >:}
  • The Second Avenue Subway is "budgeted at approximately $1.7 billion per kilometers while similar projects in Paris and Berlin have checked in at $250 million per kilometer and a London Tube extension cost $450 million per kilometer."

    And that's why we can't have nice things. It's not just good working conditions & union wages— they have those those in Paris, London, and Berlin.
  • The cost @ehgee mentioned is just insane.  I have no clue how this stuff works, but shouldn't it be cheaper if you just stick to the road; meaning, don't go under buildings?  And wouldn't the cost be cheaper in Brooklyn, having less big buildings which may need to be supported?
  • Yes, that is why SBS/BRT is being implemented on Utica and other routes.

    ...SBS will be the closest thing we are going to get to new subway service for decades.

    If it isn't coupled with enforcement and limited access, it won't achieve its stated goals.
  • Under the road in most of Brooklyn is where you have utilities (electric, gas, telecom, etc). I'd guess that building underneath them without disturbing them would be a nightmare plus you need spaces for ventilation, mechanicals, etc. Think about the substations that are tucked away in various neighborhoods and the ventilation shafts under sidewalks along subway lines. 2nd Ave subway proves it can be done, but not without a huge cost. Add to that NY state's need to load additional costs onto public works projects (prevailing wage, WC, etc) and the failure of government to drive large construction projects to completion in a timely manner, and I don't think that we'll see a new Brooklyn subway line in our lifetimes.  If someone could make it happen however, it would be a game changer.

    My bet is that the Cross Harbor Freight tunnel currently being studied by the Port Authority will be the only new underground rail constructed in the next 50 years. http://www.bondbuyer.com/news/regionalnews/port-authority-cross-harbor-freight-could-impact-future-revenues-1068285-1.html

    That won't impact Crown Heights directly, but will put a lot more trains on the moribund rail line that runs through Canarsie, Brownsville, ENY and Ridgewood. Meanwhile, CH and the close in parts of Nostrand and Utica will continue to grow in popularity as they are close to subway lines. It remains to be seen if the current gentrification will reach the far ends of the system (New Lots, Brooklyn College, etc) and what impacts will result.
  • Yes, and because such projects take so long to complete, my hope is that they won't be started until their necessity and funding is completely established.

    My hope is that we no longer live in an age that politicians can start an ill conceived (really risky) project to appease union interests (ie obtain votes).

  • homeowner said:

    It remains to be seen if the current gentrification will reach the far ends of the system (New Lots, Brooklyn College, etc) and what impacts will result.



    I don't think it is a matter of if, just a matter of when.  Brooklyn College will likely go first.  I'd say a couple years.
  • Gentrification around Brooklyn College has already started. There were a few new condo developments in the area when I was looking 4-5 years ago. The large-scale commercial changes that started with Target are continuing; they even have a Blink Fitness now. I'm waiting to see if the improvements to the streetscape that were promised (#8 on this list: http://www.flatbushjunctionbid.com/top_10_reasons) will actually happen. 
  • A few friends of mine have recently moved to Ditmas, purchased condos and are doing their best to have local businesses cater to their means and preferences.
  • whynot_31 said:

    Yes, that is why SBS/BRT is being implemented on Utica and other routes.

    ...SBS will be the closest thing we are going to get to new subway service for decades.

    If it isn't coupled with enforcement and limited access, it won't achieve its stated goals.



    what do you mean by limited access?

    i do love a good SBS bus. The B44+ is the only decent way i can get to williamsburg these days. 

    My boyfriend bought a house close to the "end" of the 2/5 train. Church ave--not quite the end, but close. Apparently a neighbor told him the reason parking is impossible in their area is because everyone from east Flatbush just drives their cars, parks on their street, and takes the 2/5 to work every morning. 

    i've heard people in east flatbush, flatlands, and mill basin, etc don't want a subway line at all, however. For a lot of reasons i'm sure but most of all because they don't WANT newcomers having easy access to their neighborhood. Not to mention the easiest way to build a utica line south of empire would probably be an elevated track--Utica is a wide, mostly commerical street. sounds like a homeowner's worst nightmare.

    as for the freight project, god i hope that happens. Caton Ave in flatbush is full to capacity with giant horrible freight trucks, especially in the mornings. anything to lighten the load.
  • Curbed would like us to vote on which neighborhood should advance toward the Curbed Cup.

    Round 1: Crown Heights vs Astoria

    http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2014/12/16/curbed_cup_1st_round_5_crown_heights_vs_12_astoria.php#more

    A few of the Big 16 local developments I watch are noted, but they are missing a lot of them: http://www.brooklynian.com/discussion/44634/links-to-the-big-16-developments-in-western-crown-heights/p1
  • Astoria's shown improve but they barely have a team.  We're going to mop the floor with them.  Let's hope for some real competition the next round. 

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