2 Jewish Men Charged With Hate Crime for Attack on Crown Heights Man
  • That incident does seem like a hate crime charge will stick.

    On the other hand, this recent incident strikes me as someone with a different set of complex problems:   http://crownheights.info/crime/451960/father-and-5-year-old-son-injured-in-knockout-attack/

    Good luck to the court system.   It has its work cut out for it.    
  • The pendulum swings both ways. Glad they got these bums. Hope they get the punishment they deserve.
  • Brooklyn's new DA has formed a unit that specifically focuses on Hate Crimes

    http://www.brooklynda.org/press_releases/pdf/sep/fliedner_marc_announcement_9_2_2014.pdf

    So, it should be interesting to see how often the hate crimes statue is used while he is in office.

    It is problematic in that whenever people assault or kill each other, they seem to yell racial, gender or sexual orientation epithets at their opponent.

    Such insults seem to be a common way to provoke your opponent, and express anger.

    I would not want to be the one who is in charge of deciding how to proceed: http://www.brooklynda.org/
  • Years ago the NYPD had what was called the Bias Crimes unit. They may still have it. Sort of the same thing but actually more encompassing. When I was selling my house in Canarsie, my neighbors threatened to firebomb me if I sold to blacks, although at the time there was already a black owned home on the block. I reported it to the police and the detectives were at my house on a Sunday night within a few hours.They went to all the people who came to my house (and the cops said that they never saw such stupid people because threats were usually anonymous) and told them that if anything happened to me or the house they would all be arrested. And though no one talked to me they didn't bother me. I was moving anyhow so I didn't really care.
  • What year are we talking?
    Do you remember how much you sold the house for?

    Looking at Canarsie today, your (presumablely white) opponents were certainly not successful. A threatening, racist note on a door is rarely enough to stop macro socio-economic trends.

  • Some more details:

    http://crownheights.info/chabad-news/452141/bochurim-in-drunk-altercation-charged-with-hate-crime/#comments

    If this version is to be believed, the incident began/escalated after the 56 y/o black man confronted the two Jewish men re: how much noise they were making.

    ...which may make the Hate Crime aspect of the case harder to prove. I believe the case would be easier if the allegations were that the Jewish men approached the black man.

    It would also be easier to prove if other people (besides the complaintant) heard the slurs. The article purports this is not the case.

    If this case makes it to trial, a jury or a judge will have to decide what version they believe.

    ....none of us were there. All "news" is suspect.
  • @Whyot....I sold the house back in 1987. What I sold it for is not relevant.
  • 1987 was not that long ago, which may surprise those who think such things are in the distant past.

    I ask the price because I was going to figure out what class (in terms of occupation) was likely to live there as you moved out. The homes in Canarsie are pretty big, but far from many things.

    My sense is the area is/was popular with people in the skilled trades.
  • I know plenty of people who have moved to Canarsie since 1987. None of them are in the skilled trades. Lots of city/transit workers. Some people with regular old office jobs who commute by the L train or by the B17 to Utica Avenue on the 4. People who drive to work, especially if that job is convenient to the Belt Parkway (in Long Island, or at Coney Island Hospital, for example).
  • The MTA drivers, engineers and track workers meet my definition of skilled trades. Folks who maintain big office buildings do too.

    City workers don't fit in my skilled trade definition (my definition involves some manual labor), but they receive similar pay.

    I have the impression that the Canarsie area has long been home to people doing work that pays around $50k in today's wages.
  • When I lived there people did everything. Wasn't any one sort of occupation or blue collar vs. white collar. So, I knew lots of people who did lots of things. I worked for a bank at the time.
  • @whynot - is crownheights.info a reliable source on this story?
  • whynot_31 said:

    Some more details:

    http://crownheights.info/chabad-news/452141/bochurim-in-drunk-altercation-charged-with-hate-crime/#comments

    If this version is to be believed, the incident began/escalated after the 56 y/o black man confronted the two Jewish men re: how much noise they were making.

    ..



    WABC is reporting that the 2 Jewish men approached and attacked the black man.


    Two white men were charged with attacking a 56-year-old black man in Crown Heights over the weekend, in an apparent hate crime.

    Samuel Brendler and Ahrone Koskase were arrested Saturday for assaulting the victim at Montgomery Street and Albany Avenue around 6:40 p.m. the same day.

    The suspects are suspected of approaching the victim, who was walking his 1-year-old dog, and throwing garbage cans at him. According to the New York City Police Department, the suspects, who were drunk, repeatedly punched the victim in the face and body while attempting to take his dog and yelling racial slurs at him. 

    On Tuesday, Dieuphene Hyppolite, 56, had scrapes on his knees and scratches on his arms -- allegedly the result of the beating.

    "All of a sudden I heard, they throw a garbage can at him. He has to block it with his arm. He has the scratch on his arm, and his two fingers are swollen," said his wife, Monita Hyppolite. "He has high blood pressure; we had to take him to the hospital."

    The full-time cab driver and part-time auxiliary police officer was unavailable to talk Tuesday, but his wife shared his story.

    "I never have any problems here been living here for over 30 years. Never had that," Monita Hyppolite said. "I feel terrible because he can get killed by them."

    The suspects, who are white, were charged with assault as a hate crime and arraigned the next day.
  • @Chekhovian-

    I have no idea.

    I find the part about the 56 y/o being an off duty auxiliary police officer interesting though.

    Many people believe cops stick together. If this loyalty and "we defend our own" code is believed to extend to auxiliary cops, a defense attorney could use it to damage the credibility of the black man's testimony.

    He could be portrayed as acting as if he had authority he did not, thus impairing a jury from finding bias.

    As stated above, I try not to put faith in any media source re: such matters. I try to wait for the court system to figure it out, and then I try convince myself the people on the jury were smarter than me in the event they reach a verdict I don't like.

    Needless to say, most cases don't even reach a jury ...they are resolved sans trial.

    PS. If they committed a hate crime, I hope they are found guilty.
  • The WABC and the crownheights.info stories are vastly different.  Except for the races and mention that the two men were drunk, they would appear to be completely different instances.  The comments in the latter seem to show a lack of understanding by some as to what constitutes a hate crime and why the "knock-out game" instance wasn't one.  
  • Just the nature of crownheights.info serving to report almost solely on the frequent occurences of crimes seems to say enough about the site. The commenters are beyond defensible.

    I know it's important to have a site that gives close attention to crime, but I rarely if ever see any other reportage on that site. The fact that this story is the one time they suggest the person attacked may have instigated the attack suggests there may not be much difference between the site's reporters and their commenters.
  • I know it's important to have a site that gives close attention to crime, but I rarely if ever see any other reportage on that site. 



    @chekhovian - Seriously??!! I challenge you to go back to the site and have another look.  I am not defending the reporters or the commentators in any way, but the fact is that most of the news reported on that site is related to the day-to-day happenings of, and directed towards, the worldwide Lubavitcher community - Mazal Tovs for births, engagements, etc., news about members of the community or related organizations, religious word of wisdom, and so forth.  

    I just had a look at their front page, and it seems that the ratio of "other" news to crime news is greater than 20:1; the ratio may not always be so weighted towards "other" news, but to say that you "rarely if ever see any other reportage on that site" leads me to believe that you are either being intentionally dishonest or don't frequent the site.


  • You are right, I admit that I misrepresented the site.

    I should have clarified my statement to state that articles not related to the Lubavitcher community that focus on the area (and not the Lubavitcher community) are almost always to identify the crime around the neighborhood.

    Basically, if it's on Crownheights.info and it's about Crown Heights and not about the Lubavitcher, then it's about crime.
  • I have made a few comments on that site that are against what the editors believe and they have refused to post them. Heaven forbid you say anything against a Jew no matter what they did. And just for info, I am a Jew.
  • You are right, I admit that I misrepresented the site.

    I should have clarified my statement to state that articles not related to the Lubavitcher community that focus on the area (and not the Lubavitcher community) are almost always to identify the crime around the neighborhood.

    Basically, if it's on Crownheights.info and it's about Crown Heights and not about the Lubavitcher, then it's about crime.



    I agree with you on that... :)
  • I will admit that I was among the 72% of voters who voted for Thompson. I felt it was time for DA Hynes to go.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/election/hynes-victory-party-polls-close-article-1.1507732

    I will also admit that if I was a new DA, and I had just formed a brand new Hate Crimes Task Force, I would make sure the first case prosecuted by it was a strong one. I would require the DA and the NYPD to meet with me extensively before such charges were levied, because I understood the potential consequences of the charges not sticking.

    I don't know that Mr. Thompson is like me, but I hope he is.

  • I would suggest that anytime DA Ken Thompson has his next Town Hall, that all interested parties please attend.

    Actions speak louder than words. His actions on the "Innocence Project" speak very loudly.
    The fact that  his first Town Hall was in the Brownsville section of Brooklyn speak to his working to reduce and end gun violence and work toward creating a healthy respect in that community for law enforcement.

    The meeting that he held, at the invitation of Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, with Community Board members and Precinct Council leaders of Kings County speaks to his reaching out to the concerned parties of those communities. The participants who attended to be heavily represented by precincts that had high numbers of shootings and homicides.

    Canvass the news articles of the NY Daily News and the NY Times to see what has been written about the new DA of Kings County.

    But as always, the proof is in the pudding. But you can't judge it if you don't really taste, can you?
  • I did my research before voting for Thompson, and liked what I found.

    ....Hynes made the decision easy for me, and many others.

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