Mtg about the Armory at Bedford and UNION
  • I wonder whether the concept of "affordable co-op" isn't internally inconsistent. The owners of a co-op are responsible for all real estate taxes, mortgage payments, water/sewer charges, and costs of maintaining the building, including unanticipated costs of repairing broken boilers, pipes, elevators, exterior brickwork/pointing, etc., etc.

    While the initial purchase price may be affordable, I don't know how anyone can be sure that the monthly maintenance charges will remain affordable.
  • @mugofmead111 - I am trying to avoid particulars; it was just a question thrown out there.  :) 

    However, an affordable housing component would be a good example; I'm sure there are some newcomers that wouldn't put in extra effort to get this done.  They may, however, spend more time and energy focusing on getting a Trader Joe's (an idea mentioned above).
  • booklaw said:

    I wonder whether the concept of "affordable co-op" isn't internally inconsistent. The owners of a co-op are responsible for all real estate taxes, mortgage payments, water/sewer charges, and costs of maintaining the building, including unanticipated costs of repairing broken boilers, pipes, elevators, exterior brickwork/pointing, etc., etc.

    While the initial purchase price may be affordable, I don't know how anyone can be sure that the monthly maintenance charges will remain affordable.



    Umm... A dilemma faced by homeowners/landlords everywhere, including those CH landlords we love to pick on who have rent controlled or rent stabilized units as their maintenance costs go up.
  • @southeast, @booklaw,

    I admit I don't know the particulars of how the financing works. I know that Crown Gardens at Nostrand and Crown Street is an example of a Mitchell-Lama era affordable co-op. It's been around for a generation or two.

    A more recently developed example, is a building at Throop and Lafayette called "The Shelton", which has units affordable at different percentages of the area median income, as well as market-rate units (the ones with the nicest views).

    While it doesn't work for everybody, it's just one tool to help encourage economic mobility, and to avoid creating places which are intended only for one price-tagged population (which are usually boring places).
  • southeast said:

    @mugofmead111 - I am trying to avoid particulars; it was just a question thrown out there.  :) 


    However, an affordable housing component would be a good example; I'm sure there are some newcomers that wouldn't put in extra effort to get this done.  They may, however, spend more time and energy focusing on getting a Trader Joe's (an idea mentioned above).


    Hey. I grew up in the neighborhood. While I want to affordable housing to be preserved (for my own selfish reason as well as for the benefit of my neighbors), I also want to see a Trader Joe's move in! (I dream of the day of being able to walk to such amenities instead of having to take the bus or the train to get certain things. That was my life for decades.)The interests of newcomers and long-term residents may not be mutually exclusive. They are not for this long-term resident. 
  • They certainly are not mutually exclusive.

    At the mtg I attended though, there was a much greater focus on whatever comes to the drill hall being affordable, then I think the majority of the present customer base of -say- Berg'n would voice.

    Likewise, I heard a lot about wanting to make sure the jobs that will be created go to long time residents. Because I imagine most of the jobs of whatever comes will pay around $12 an hour, I do not see young people with lots of opportunities and resources being especially concerned about them potentially going to someone else.
  • whynot_31 said:

     Likewise, I heard a lot about wanting to make sure the jobs will be created go to long time residents. Because I imagine most of the jobs of whatever comes will pay around $12 an hour, I do not see young people with lots of opportunities and resources being especially concerned about them potentially going to someone else.



    I wouldn't be surprised if the local politicians were to echo that sentiment as well.  Eric Adams was telling us last night that he's facing employment numbers in the double digits. 

    There is something very appealing about being able to walk to work. :) 
  • @grwd, There's also the Maynard, 1509 Bergen at Schenectady, a 47-unit subsidized cooperative that opened in 2010: http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2010/03/the-maynard-lau/

    I don't know how affordable the maintenance costs have been over these past four years. But at least there's hope; affordable co-ops aren't impossible.
  • I propose another use for the Bedford Union Armory -- a Longsword Training Facility! How "brooklyn" would that be?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/16/sports/for-longsword-a-comeback-ages-in-the-making.html
  • I was told tonight that the EDC, the Mayors Office, and anyone else that can get in front of a microphone will finally announce what will become of the Armory in the Nov or Dec of this year (2104).
  • Imagine this rectangle: Nostrand, Atlantic, Washington, Empire.

    Now, think about these statements: The subsidized housing to be constructed behind this armory will be the first new construction of subsidized housing in the above rectangle in more than 30 years. It is at least 3 years away from completion, and no other projects are planned.

    I believe the above statements to be accurate.
  • Here's a list of how the various armories around NYC are being used today:

    http://untappedcities.com/2014/09/26/22-of-nycs-remaining-armories-and-how-theyre-used-today/

    Note, contrary to what the article states, I believe the NYS National Guard unit no longer has place in "our" armory. I believe they left when control of the armory was transferred to the city from NYS.
  • The Bedford Union Armory Community-Wide Discussions have been scheduled!

    Please join NYCEDC, Borough President Adams, Council Member Cumbo, and Assembly Member Mosley at one of two upcoming meetings:

    • Sunday, October 19th from 4:00pm - 6:30pm at First Baptist Church of Crown Heights Fellowship Hall, 450 Eastern Parkway, or

    • Tuesday October 21st from 6:00pm - 8:30pm at Friends of Crown Heights, 671 Prospect Place)

    Please RSVP to the event here: http://www.nycedc.com/news-press/events/bedford-union-armory-forum-rsvp
  • Is MTOPP going to disrupt these as well?
  • As a result of the event being RSVP, I suspect it will be more orderly.

    The armory will serve a wide geographic area, so I expect lots of competing interests and groups to attend.

    I think it is safe to say that it doesn't matter how the armory ends up being used, some people will dislike it.

    If the politicians are smart they will use the lot behind the drill hall to create supportive housing for persons with disabilities or presently in shelters. That way it will silence the folks who say the city is deliberately pricing them out, and they can talk about how they are helping people less fortunate.

    This strategy is often known as Divide and Conquer.
  • lilern said:

    Is MTOPP going to disrupt these as well?



    If Alicia Boyd were to sign up under her real name, would TPTB try to ban her from the event?

    If a critical mass of MTOPP were to sign up, then...

    image
  • No one will be banned from the event, but lots of people will complain they weren't able to register.

    Listen closely, you can hear advocates for the poor typing that their folks don't have internet access and thus the EDC's RSVP system is inherently discriminatory...

    Note, the EDC is not under an obligation to have everyone attend, or even abide by people's concerns.

    They just need to hold a few meetings, and then state in their formal report how they held the meetings and tried to meeting everyone's concerns, but could not.
  • whynot_31 said:

    No one will be banned from the event, but lots of people will complain they weren't able to register.

    Listen closely, you can hear advocates for the poor typing that their folks don't have internet access and thus the EDC's RSVP system is inherently discriminatory...

    Note, the EDC is not under an obligation to have everyone attend, or even abide by people's concerns.

    They just need to hold a few meetings, and then state in their formal report how they held the meetings and tried to meeting everyone's concerns, but could not.



    Then we're going to hear similar complaints like the ones voiced at the last CB9 meeting re: the input that lead to the infamous resolution. "You didn't ask us."
  • It is ok to move forward despite such complaints.

    The EDC has fiscal and time constraints, which cause it to not be able to engage all people effectively, despite its efforts to overcome same.

    It is not a problem of intent. Next.
  • Please correct me if I am mistaken, but this is the time to tell the EDC that we want the Armory to be a large indoor aquarium, right?

    And then the meeting is spent going around the room sharing stories about how an aquarium would be absolutely amazing, and then at the end of the meeting we each get an "I built a consensus" sticker and a personalized invitation to come to the grand opening of the aquarium in 2019, right?

    ...Or is the RFP selection process wrapping up and this is where they take a reading of public sentiment to make sure they're choosing the right one?
  • I plan to make a plea for a Trader Joe's.
  • I believe this is the part where members of the public request things that are not at all financially possible (i.e. aquarium)
    OR
    politically possible (i.e free admission for "long term local" residents).

    And, the EDC sits there and is slowly convinced that whatever they already have in mind is better than what the public would do with the space.

    MTA fare hearings are similar.
  • whynot_31 said:

    I believe this is the part where members of the public request things that are not at all financially possible (i.e. aquarium)
    OR
    politically possible (i.e free admission for "long term local" residents).  



     I'd vote for this. 
  • Well I already heard the Jewish folks are pissed because they can't go to the first meeting as their faith won't allow them to enter a house of worship that's not their religion. Sooooo we've already got folks pissed before this even starts. I RSVP'd for the Tuesday event but did not receive an email confirmation after submission....
  • @mugofmead111 -

    As a result of living here for more than 10 years, I believe I qualify for the long term local resident pass.

    (this is going to be great)

    @lilern - I didn't receive an email confirmation yet either. I registered for Sunday.
  • I've been to some past meetings and from what I understand the empty lot behind the armory will become a footprint for rather tall residential housing. This will consist of market rate and low income housing. The market rate housing will help subsidize the ongoing cost of what becomes of the armory
  • Yup. I took a photo of that lot on page 1.

    In this instance the city actually owns the land that the developers want, so it has more power than usual.

    However, even given this "free land" they are going to either have to make said housing a combination of "really luxury" and "not that affordable" to pull off subsidizing anything.

    And, they are going to need (gasp) a variance from the zoning code presently in place.

  • lilern said:

    Well I already heard the Jewish folks are pissed because they can't go to the first meeting as their faith won't allow them to enter a house of worship that's not their religion. 



    Cultural competency fail. People who work with this community at large should have expanded their knowledge base about such things by now (maybe get an advisor so these kind of complaints can be headed off at the pass?). 
  • There is a lot of debate about whether poverty is a culture. If one believes it is, it would follow that it is an inherently part of someone's identity and actions, and that these limitations should be respected by those trying to get their input.

    ...just like Orthodox Judiasm.

    Following this logic, the EDC would have to place flyers on poles and in laundrymats to effectively reach people whose culture won't allow them to gain knowledge from obscure websites.

    And, by not doing so, it inherently reinforces the power held by those that spend lots of their time online, and inherently supports the country's christian roots.

    ....it never ends.

    At some point, we should do something with that big armory.

    How about we start renovations and construction in the Spring of 2015?
  • whynot_31 said:

    There is a lot of debate about whether poverty is a culture. If one believes it is, it would follow that it is an inherently part of someone's identity and thus the limitations it places on its members must be respected.

    Hence, the EDC would have to place flyers on poles and in laundrymats to effectively reach people whose culture won't allow them to gain knowledge from an obscure website.

    And, by doing so, it inherently reinforces the power held by those that spend lots of their time online on such sites.

    ....it never ends.

    At some point, we should do something with that big armory.



    One could say that one can go to the Central location of Brooklyn Public Library to sign up fro free internet access, but there are lines once you get there depending on when you arrive), and your time online is limited. That is assuming that everyone knows how to use such a thing or is comfortable with it. 
  • When one digs a little deeper, one determines that having internet access is only a small part of the divide.

    For example, the divide is not conquered when users gain internet access yet spend their time reading somethng like Star Magazine. http://starmagazine.com/

    Note: I tried to pick a magazine that is consumed by various cultures, yet has no content.
  • We now return to what is going on surrounding the armory in The Bronx:

    http://therealdeal.com/blog/2014/10/03/locals-want-to-guard-kingsbridge-from-upzoning/

    We could be in for a similar situation.
  • Still hope they open up the many side archways to small shops
  • whynot_31 said:

    The Bedford Union Armory Community-Wide Discussions have been scheduled!



    Please join NYCEDC, Borough President Adams, Council Member Cumbo, and Assembly Member Mosley at one of two upcoming meetings:



    • Sunday, October 19th from 4:00pm - 6:30pm at First Baptist Church of Crown Heights Fellowship Hall, 450 Eastern Parkway, or



    • Tuesday October 21st from 6:00pm - 8:30pm at Friends of Crown Heights, 671 Prospect Place)



    Please RSVP to the event here: http://www.nycedc.com/news-press/events/bedford-union-armory-forum-rsvp



    Despite registering for the mtg, I have yet to receive a confirmation.

    Has anyone else received a confirmation?

    I registered for the Sunday one, in part b/c it is in one of the last massive former theaters along EP that I have not been in.

    https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=450+eastern+parkway&gbv=2&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&ei=PRY4VIzAJIu_sQTM9oDoDA&ved=0CAkQ_AU

  • I registered for the Tuesday meeting and have not received confirmation
  • It is my understanding that the transfer from NYS to NYC came with a condition that NYC can't actually sell the armory.

    However, leasing it for 99 years is allowed.

    ...and that is exactly what just happened in the Bronx: http://therealdeal.com/blog/2014/10/16/kingsbridge-national-ice-center-developers-ink-lease-with-city/
  • I registered for Sunday and also haven't heard back
  • Given my perception of the interest, I expected them to email tickets to the people rsvp'd.

    (they haven't)

    The Sunday location has a huge capacity, so they may have used the RSVP function just as a way to gauge interest and then -on Sunday- just let everyone in.

    ...this could be a mess if their method of letting people in will involve going to a table that corresponds to your last name, where someone will find you on a list and cross it off.

    EDC, are you reading?

  • I registered. No RSVP.
  • I am here. They are going with a small groups format. It looks like they are expecting around 300 people.

    We are not in the main theater/church space

    image
  • EDC provided a facilitator for each table. 

     Unsurprisingly, most tables seemed to be partial to uses that generated little money and opposed to high profit uses that would subsidize the former. 

     EDC hopes to name the developer this Winter, and its plan will have to be ratified by City Council and the Mayor.

    More public mtgs will be held as part of the ULURP process....
    image
  • Rachel's article on it:    http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20141020/crown-heights/developers-envision-hotel-housing-retail-at-crown-heights-armory

    "While Downing wanted to hear the community's thoughts, she emphasized that the plan for the armory must be financially viable in the long term.

    “We’re going to make sure that the team that we move forward with is coming to the table and meaningfully investing in this community," she said, "but one of the ways we can best set up this project for success is to include uses that can pay for themselves."

    Proposals developers have submitted so far include a hotel, housing (either sales or rentals), a performing arts space with ticketed events, office space for local businesses and retail space for a pharmacy or a grocery store, Downing said."
  • Re: a pharmacy - Bring on either CVS or Walgreens. :)