Pricey pre-war condo conversion in Flatbush - Brooklynian

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Pricey pre-war condo conversion in Flatbush

"Bedford Gardens" at 2107 Bedford between Linden and Lenox just hit the market. From what I can tell, this was one of the hundreds of pre-war rental buildings in the neighborhood. Maybe they bought out some of the tenants but some remain? 
A dozen or so units are selling as condos, at around $700/sq ft. Ambitious considering the price they are asking for the 2 bedroom is about the same as the price of a house in the rest of Flatbush. 

Comments

  • Ha, i came here to post about this. on new years day i was walking past it and noticed the gate was wide open and there were no construction workers around so i walked into the patio. even the doors to the lobbies were unlocked! anyway, what they've done to the patio inside and the lobbies are really great--really beautiful and no doubt costly renovations. new patio pavers (instead of concrete), boxes for plants and trees, original marble/tile/plasterwork in the lobby preserved, etc. best of all, they replaced the crappy old 60's-ish era glass and metal door with the awesome iron gate shown in the renderings. But, that was a week ago and it still looked very much under construction. very surprised to see listings so soon! and doubly surprised they're condos. i was expecting them to show up as $3000+ a month rentals or something.

    it definitely seemed like there were older tenants there; the building is by no means empty. 

    Photo Jan 01, 2 30 40 PM

    Photo Jan 01, 2 31 16 PM

    Photo Jan 03, 11 33 00 PM
  • as for the condo listings themselves...they remind me a lot of the condo conversions on clarkson ave done a few years ago. beautiful prewar building, but featureless tiny boxes on the inside. I couldn't believe this painful floorplan for their cheapest listing ($370k)

    image
    (note fancy branding effort in the logo)
    i really want to know what these apartments look like inside, or if they're even remotely at the level of finish that they should be for an open house. it would explain why the only pictures of the apartments are shitty renderings.

    also, is this part of town now to be called "North Flatbush?"
  • There seems to be an effort to differentiate neighborhoods from "East Flatbush".
  • or even just "flatbush." after all ditmas park, prospect park south, PLG, all used to be just Flatbush. what's wrong with Just Flatbush?
  • Um, East Flatbush is a part of it. 

    As a result, I suspect what is presently known as Flatbush will shrink to the area that is presently known as East Flatbush.   

    ...all of the other areas will break (or be broken) off.

    Linguistics! 

  • Wow that is a pretty penny for the ppsf in that area! But it is very close to the park and every time I walk through there all I see is construction, it reminds me of williamsburg in 2001 (building on every street, whether it was rehabs or new devs).

    The name shifting thing worked well in other areas too. I remember williamsburg grew 'east williamsburg' and when bedstuy was first being developed, it was pitched as being clinton hill, or near clinton hill since the association was better than bedstuy. Once the neighbs start selling the names stand on their own and revert back.  In manhattan they just rename stuff! Hells kitchen is now 'mima' or midtown manhattan. Various Harlem neighborhoods are being added into the upper east and west sides.

    That said... I like the courtyard. Can't believe they want as much for a 1br as we paid for whole house though. I guess we got lucky. 
  • whynot_31 said:

    Um, East Flatbush is a part of it. 

    As a result, I suspect what is presently known as Flatbush will shrink to the area that is presently known as East Flatbush.   

    ...all of the other areas will break (or be broken) off.

    Linguistics! 

    i think it's more likely the name of east flatbush will stick and its borders will be pushed further and further east
  • Wow that is a pretty penny for the ppsf in that area! But it is very close to the park and every time I walk through there all I see is construction, it reminds me of williamsburg in 2001 (building on every street, whether it was rehabs or new devs).

    The name shifting thing worked well in other areas too. I remember williamsburg grew 'east williamsburg' and when bedstuy was first being developed, it was pitched as being clinton hill, or near clinton hill since the association was better than bedstuy. Once the neighbs start selling the names stand on their own and revert back.  In manhattan they just rename stuff! Hells kitchen is now 'mima' or midtown manhattan. Various Harlem neighborhoods are being added into the upper east and west sides.

    That said... I like the courtyard. Can't believe they want as much for a 1br as we paid for whole house though. I guess we got lucky. 

    it's like when you would search for apartments in "prospect heights" around 2009, and websites would give you results for places on Rogers or Nostrand. To that point, i recently saw a girl i know instagram a picture of those pacific park murals and caption it "another art explosion in crown heights!" 
  • whynot_31 said:

    Um, East Flatbush is a part of it. 

    As a result, I suspect what is presently known as Flatbush will shrink to the area that is presently known as East Flatbush.   

    ...all of the other areas will break (or be broken) off.

    Linguistics! 

    i think it's more likely the name of east flatbush will stick and its borders will be pushed further and further east
    Will there be a point in which the neighborhood of Flatbush does not touch Flatbush Avenue?
  • Yes, I think that, like 41 Clarkson, they cut up generous sized pre-war apts to make more modest sized ones. 
    Streeteasy has good neighborhood definitions, with Flatbush the modern neighborhood, distinct from the historical town or the 20th century term for many neighborhoods lumped together. Bedford is right smack in the middle of it. If the landmarks of Flatbush are Flatbush town hall, decrepit PS 90, Erasmus high, The Dutch Reformed Church, Kings Theater, and the Sears, they're all around the vicinity of Flatbush and Bedford. Doesn't make sense to call that East Flatbush, nor Nostrand, 2 blocks to the east. For a dividing line between Flatbush and East Flatbush, New York Ave makes sense to me. 

  • um, no, i think flatbush will always touch flatbush. i'm not sure why you'd have any reason to think differently. east flatbush is a pretty solidly suburban area with vastly different architectural styles; it was developed whole generations after flatbush was, mostly from 1930s-1950s (before, it had been farmland). if you took a long bike ride down clarendon around the E 40's and 50s you'd see the difference. flatbush proper is pretty much an urban center with housing stock dating from 1870s -1930s, and RudolfAhrens is right on the money about its borders, in my opinion. Many of its more dilapidated housing stock around the historical flatbush center pre-dates the fancy victorian developments of PPS and ditmas park. I'm sure many would disagree whether the eastern border is nostrand or new york, but one thing's for sure: flatbush, bedford ave, and rogers are 100% Flatbush and always will be.

    Also, i went to these open houses. A lot of people, a mix of baby huggers and potential investors. As expected half the units were still massively under construction, and they were all very tiny. Some more sunless than other. a lot of indignant scoffs were had all around. A lot of lovely original parquet being covered up by new hardwood planks (along with a lot of badly damaged parquet too). Personally i think the deal breaker were the high common charges. The fancy future gardens don't come cheap! it would be hard to justify the price point for an investor. i can't imagine it would be easy to break even.
  • Do you think they'll lower the prices? What do you think a proper price should be? 

    I'm sure they are basing their prices on the high prices that 41 Clarkson has been fetching. Perhaps those apartments are nicer? They're closer to the subway and the park. I haven't seen either. 

    This could be the tip of the iceberg for these kinds of condo conversions. This area is one of the densest in brooklyn and has many thousands of prewar units. Most of those buildings have a variety of apartments but almost always have a few large, grand apartments, 3 bed 2 bath or even bigger. 
  • um, no, i think flatbush will always touch flatbush. i'm not sure why you'd have any reason to think differently. east flatbush is a pretty solidly suburban area with vastly different architectural styles; it was developed whole generations after flatbush was, mostly from 1930s-1950s (before, it had been farmland). if you took a long bike ride down clarendon around the E 40's and 50s you'd see the difference. /div>

    This. East Flatbush hasn't been considered part of Flatbush for a very very long time. Like since it was a city unto itself.
  • Fred Trump was one of the developers of those East Flatbush brick row houses with garages on the ground floor. 
  • I think it's more likely that the term 'East Flatbush' just disappears. Here's some historical context for the reason: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/1897_Brooklyn_map.jpg

    There was no East Flatbush way back when. It was all part of Flatbush.

    As a side note, the giant hospital used to have a 'lunatic asylum!'
  • Do you think they'll lower the prices? What do you think a proper price should be? 

    I'm sure they are basing their prices on the high prices that 41 Clarkson has been fetching. Perhaps those apartments are nicer? They're closer to the subway and the park. I haven't seen either. 

    This could be the tip of the iceberg for these kinds of condo conversions. This area is one of the densest in brooklyn and has many thousands of prewar units. Most of those buildings have a variety of apartments but almost always have a few large, grand apartments, 3 bed 2 bath or even bigger. 
    i don't think they'll lower the prices; no. i mean, i think there's a good chance with the way the market has cooled off they may accept at asking for most if not all of these. But i'm so positive some foreign investor will just snap up a couple of these as a convenient way to park their money. i'm sure corcoran is practically counting on it. very few will probably be purchased by people who actually intend to live in them....which is a shame for me as a neighbor. another reason i wish i could see more co-op conversions than condos.

    i really do think it could be the tip of the iceberg. linden blvd and lenox road are stuffed with giant pre war units. the only question is whether there's a sponsor willing to undertake the effort. one of the agents said that the same people behind this development were behind 41 clarkson
  • I grew up in East Flatbush (Snyder and East 55th) in the 50s and 60s.The apartment building I lived in was built in 1918. And P.S. 244 was built in 1929. The closest farmland was in southern Canarsie and there wasn't much of that in the 50s and 60s. So, it's not like the area is that new or built up much later than Flatbush. The oldest house in Brooklyn is on Clarendon and Ralph.
  • Weren't these rent-stabilized apartments? Does anyone know what the legality is in this case, when a building sells off a portion of the apartments as condos? 
    I know that, after improvements, they could be rented as market rate if the rents exceeded $2700, but these are very small, and unlikely to rent for that much. 
  • Since New York put the non-eviction plan into effect about 25 years ago if all the apartments aren't converted there's not anything that can be done. The rent still gets paid to the landlord (who in many cases signs on to do the building maintenance) and the others have their condos.
  • edited January 2016
    Yup. Here's the scoop: "Can the management company sell my stabilized apartment? Since the management company is trying to sell your apartment, we take it that the building is a co-op or condominium. After a rent stabilized building is converted to a co-op or condominium, renters in place at the time of the conversion are usually allowed to remain under a non-eviction plan. They also have the right to renew their leases, and cannot be kicked out. However, once the rent stabilized tenant moves out, the apartment can either a) be sold; or b) be rented without the protections of rent stabilization. If you were in the building before it was converted to a co-op or condominium, you have the right to remain. However, if you moved in after the building was converted, the apartment is no longer rent stabilized and the management company is not obligated to renew your lease." http://www.nycrgb.org/html/resources/faq/rentstab.html
  • Wow that is a pretty penny for the ppsf in that area! But it is very close to the park and every time I walk through there all I see is construction, it reminds me of williamsburg in 2001 (building on every street, whether it was rehabs or new devs).

    The name shifting thing worked well in other areas too. I remember williamsburg grew 'east williamsburg' and when bedstuy was first being developed, it was pitched as being clinton hill, or near clinton hill since the association was better than bedstuy. Once the neighbs start selling the names stand on their own and revert back.  In manhattan they just rename stuff! Hells kitchen is now 'mima' or midtown manhattan. Various Harlem neighborhoods are being added into the upper east and west sides.

    That said... I like the courtyard. Can't believe they want as much for a 1br as we paid for whole house though. I guess we got lucky. 

    it's like when you would search for apartments in "prospect heights" around 2009, and websites would give you results for places on Rogers or Nostrand. To that point, i recently saw a girl i know instagram a picture of those pacific park murals and caption it "another art explosion in crown heights!" 
    I have a coworker who moved to "Prospect Heights" a few months ago— AKA Park Place east of Rogers.
  • Geez louise! http://streeteasy.com/building/bedford-gardens

    It looks like half a dozen of them are already in contract. Basically everything under 700k has been snapped up. Wow. I have to admit I did not think that they would be able to move units at ~$700 sq ft, and I certainly didn't think they would be able to do it that fast. 
  • Wow, that was quick. I wonder if it's just people looking to AirBnB them. 
  • Does anyone know anybody who lives in that similar condo conversion on Clarkson? as in, are they renting from an LLC or are they actual individual owners who live in their condos
  • Looks like the next one up is 2525 Beverly Road. 
    This is an interesting database BTW. You can see which buildings applied to go Co-op in the 80s and were rejected. 

  • wait, how exactly does this database work?
  • This is a state-wide database of buildings which applied to be condos or co-ops. Like all NYC and NY databases, it's extremely poorly designed. But a lot of info on there!
    Ah, I see my link was no good. I looked up 41 Clarkson, which was linked to the principals, who are indeed the same for 2107 Bedford. They also have a building in Harlem, and one more in Flatbush in the works, at 2525 Beverly. 

    If you go here you can search for addresses. 
  • ohhhh okay. oh cool, i discovered the building across the street from my building requested to be a co-op at the same time as mine did but was rejected. bummer!
  • They added 7 more units to the market. 

    Plus it looks as though the company has yet another building in the works, this time at 17 East 17th St. They bought it for $5m a few months ago. If the other buildings are a guide, 20 units, selling around $500-750k each, spend a million on renovations (?), that would be at least $10m in profit. 

  • wow, that's a total score. it's not the nicest block but so close to the subway. and in reality a handsome building. i wonder what they'll do to the front. a lot could be done with that little yard.
  • I like that block. Not much through traffic. 
    They seem to pick these buildings of a certain size: 20-40 units, prewar. Although the Beverly road one is 1950s I think. I wonder what those layouts are going to be like. 
    Nevertheless there are many, many buildings of this size and type in the area. Many more than say, Park Slope. This could be condo-conversion central. 
  • every time my boyfriend gets tacos at the truck on the corner of this block and church, he has some weird and shitty encounter with an unsavory character. but i guess that's just general church ave mess; relatively far from this building 
  • Did you ever see the map of subway stops color coded by income? From Church to Beverly on the Q is one of the greatest disparities in the city. But I'm sure developers also look at that stop as a goldmine. 
    But yeah, panhandlers, evangelists, the mentally ill, people just trying to get the cheapest cucumber, tube socks, lots going on around that subway stop. 
  • also i just looked at the bedford gardens listings a little closer. it seems most of the "new" units were just units they took off the market back in february, presumably after no one was interested (including the shitty duplex that was asking $835k). Funnily enough, only the duplex seems to have gone down much in price; to $750k. the rest stayed the same or are now asking slightly more, ha. I'm guessing by now the apartments are a little more completed then they were when i saw them in January.
  • Might need a few more coffeshops and sitdown restaurants in the area before they can get those prices. 

  • I agree, priced too high, but perhaps not by much. The lack of coffeeshops or restaurants may be overlooked because of the severe lack of inventory for people who really want, say, 2br condos, within walking distance of the park, for around $600k. Very little out there like that. 
  • They've started to close on some of these!
    Above ask. 
    both 2 beds 1 bath 790 ft²
    both Asking $585k
    both closed at $595,676 ($754 per sq ft)
    and both now for rent at $2400/month. 

Sign In or Register to comment.