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Subject: What's next for Franklin Avenue?
I'm really happy with all the positive changes I've seen on Franklin Avenue over the past 14 months I've been living here. It makes me wonder what FA is going to look like a year from now. What kinds of business are going to be opening up? More importantly, what kind of business *should* open up? Coffee Shops, Burgers, Fresh Produce, a neighborhood bar and event space... we've got those. So what kind of businesses do we need? I was thinking about this yesterday and I thought it would be nice to have a "real" deli that makes awesome sandwiches late at night. I have yet to find anything that would make me want to walk a couple blocks out of my way. What else?Brooklynian » Forum » Crown Heights and Prospect Lefferts Gardens »
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Well there is supposed to be a chain drug store coming to the hole at EP and Franklin (I think Walgreens?). Also (just off Franklin) they are about to renovate the large, decrepit, St Theresa's Church complex and make it into a Court Officer's training academy. That might make the area much safer. Those folks are going to eat lunch somewhere, and that should help out the local area economically. Let's see: a. Once the police and community board finally close down I-95 for drug use and sales, I'd put a casual dining restaurant there. b. I'd get the African Restaurant to step up its game, and fully utilize its space. c. I'd put in a real Hardware store (something affiliated with Ace or True Value) to finally put the sorry Mayday Hardware on Washington Ave out of business, and save me the walk to Pinchik. d. I'd also waive my magic wand and give the CH Community Counseling and Mediation Center, located on Classon: http://www.ccmnyc.org/community/Community.html http://www.ccmnyc.org/programs/Education.html a bunch of city money to run a lot more youth programs (including GED programs) to give the kids something to do other than mess with the police. e. It's boring, but I would open a nurses uniform store somewhere locally, given the large amount of long term residents who work in health care. ....next:For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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whynot_31 » It's boring, but I would open a nurses uniform store somewhere locally, given the large amount of long term residents who work in health care.
That idea is pure gold. -
I agree with everything whynot said I also would like a book store - used and new - in the area. Absolutely more sit-down places for eating would be awesome too. And, selfishly, I want a GOOD nail salon. I feel gross at the place on Franklin down near EP -- I went once and was sure I was going to catch something. I don't wear tips/fake nails so I want just a good mani/pedi place.
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Ditto on the hardware store... But nothing says gentrification quite like a Thai restaurant. Also a nice boutique style wine and liquor shop I think would be nice.
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I would like to see a butcher, a fishmonger, and a cheese shop PLZ!!!!
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franklin could probably use one more bar to compete with FP. grocery situation on franklin kinda sucks too with the overpriced nam's and the overpriced and sucky fisher's. get rid of all the delis on franklin and st. johns and franklin and lincoln.
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It's nice to have options at Franklyn ave. But I went to check out Kingston Ave where I'm planning to move, and I found a great place: Basil. It's right on Kingston and Lincoln Pl. Very fancy and with a large wine selection. I was really impressed.
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TheBurgerking » Ditto on the hardware store... But nothing says gentrification quite like a Thai restaurant. Also a nice boutique style wine and liquor shop I think would be nice.
The wine place that exists on Franklin is actually pretty okay. Do you think Franklin's ready for a non bullet-proof glass wine shop? -
whynot_31 » Also (just off Franklin) they are about to renovate the large, decrepit, St Theresa's Church complex and make it into a Court Officer's training academy. That might make the area much safer.
Got more info on this? -
eastbloc » [quote="whynot_31"] Also (just off Franklin) they are about to renovate the large, decrepit, St Theresa's Church complex and make it into a Court Officer's training academy. That might make the area much safer.
Got more info on this?[/quote] yup. http://www.thechief-leader.com/news/2007-05-04/news/005.html http://ilovefranklinave.blogspot.com/2010/05/court-officers-training-academy-coming.htmlFor better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
spnder » [quote="TheBurgerking"]Ditto on the hardware store... But nothing says gentrification quite like a Thai restaurant. Also a nice boutique style wine and liquor shop I think would be nice.
The wine place that exists on Franklin is actually pretty okay. Do you think Franklin's ready for a non bullet-proof glass wine shop?[/quote] I agree it may be a little too soon for a place like this, but now the rents are affordable and if the building on EP and Franklin ever gets built... So yes I think the nabe is ready. Also the story about St. Teresas is from 2007. -
TheBurgerking » Also the story about St. Teresas is from 2007.
Here's a new story, one I have written just for you on the afternoon of July 30th 2010: Once upon a time, back in 2006, the NYS Senate passed a bill: http://image.iarchives.nysed.gov/images/images/80824.pdf They even consistently reported the project as being in Crown Heights, because (unlike Capt Planet) they know that Classon is in Crown Heights and that Crown Heights already has a perfectly good name.
Once the governor and some other characters signed the bill, the folks who supervise the Court Officers were happy and decided to run an article in the ultra boring civil servant newspaper (as per the first link above, dated 2007). 
Then the process entered the NYS procurement system. 
After that it likely went into the design phase with the NYS Dormatory authority. 
About two years later, sometime in 2009, it likely finally came out of design and the authority obtained permission to release an RFP.
http://www.dasny.org/construc/bidops/opportunity.php?bidid=1481
While they had it, the Dormatory Authority created cool drawings of what Building 1 (former elementary school), Building 2 (former auditorium/gymnasium), and Building 3 (former convent) are supposed to end up looking like.
This helped contractors configure their bids. You can see the drawings here:
http://www.dasny.org/construc/procurement/in_progress/343/343.php
When the bid was released, they also made a press release that stated how great they are. The guy who writes I Love Franklin Ave. (see second link above) decided it was pretty cool
Meanwhile, contractors read the RFP and scratched their chins. They stayed up late, and then turned in their plans by the due date, April 2010. 
If you and a friend wanted to build this project, you are too late. 
At this very moment, the authority is presently reviewing the bids, and thinking of questions to ask the contractors. The contractors will consider most of the questions to be annoying, but will try to remain polite. 
Hopefully soon, some contractor will get the news they have been chosen.
This contractor will be very 
Their name will appear here: http://www.dasny.org/construc/procurement/in_progress/343/news.php
After that, folks with hard hats will hopefully appear on Classon to revitalize the complex. :D.
The contractors will eat burgers at Dutch Boy and Bristens.
It's all likely to happen with NYS funds that were dedicated in 2007 , because in 2010 they are broke and we are unlikely to see any fundings for projects of this type as a result
After about 2 years or so, the court officers will get to move into their new digs. 
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Why not -- have you been to the hardware store on Franklin by Bergen? Is it any good? I just walked past on my way home today and remembered this thread.
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xlizellx » Why not -- have you been to the hardware store on Franklin by Bergen? Is it any good? I just walked past on my way home today and remembered this thread.
I have not been in that hardware store. But I know that it does not have an affilation with Ace or True Value ....hence it may adequately meet the needs of local apartment dwellers, but not people like brownstone owners, supers, or serial renovators. It is, however, likely better than Mayday, which just sucks. I walk to Pinchiks or Lowes as a result.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
There are several local hardware stores which I used when I was renovating my home including the one on Frankin and Bergen and another on Nostrand and Pacific. They are good for the basics, but for more specialized items I often needed to go to specialized places such as plumbing supply stores, or the electrician's supply place on Rogers. The problem is that if you want one stop shopping you need a Lowes or Home Depot type of place. If you want to support local businesses, then you get places that may not have every thing you need. Such is the trade off in a neighborhood. What I find amusing is the concept that the neighborhood "needs" things. Why not just accept that there may be things you want to buy that you have to travel for such as books, cheese and wine? Why must every single item be available outside of your door? I can't get a decent beef patty in Park Slope, but no one there seems to think a roti shop is "needed". Why is that okay, but not being able to buy $50 bottles of wine in CH is somehow a problem?
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Utica and Winthrop has a pretty good hardware store that has lumber as well. I go there pretty often
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http://www.sisterscommunityhardware.com/ ...is really good. It is at Washington and Fulton. ....but Pintchic is closer to where I live. And located near City Sub (which is really yummy) But back to Franklin Ave..... I think a fish place would survive. I was sad when the fish place on Vandy was gentrified out a few years ago. ....I agree with everyone who doesn't think the 'hood will yet support a fancy wine store yet (get yourself over to Vanderbilt or Washington). And, I am presently taking investment $ to open my health care uniform shop.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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I could use: -a vegan/vegetarian Caribbean place, like the ones that are all over Nostrand (I never understood why there isn't already one on Franklin) -also, a fish market like the ones on Utica would be niceVery un- "sivilized".
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whynot_31 » And, I am presently taking investment $ to open my health care uniform shop.
This would be a good idea except that I've seen lots of folks buying their uniforms at the Bargain Mart on Nostrand and Fulton and in the discount stores already on Franklin. They sell them really cheap. Along with dresses from H&M and t-shirts from the GAP. I don't know how they get that all stuff so cheap. So you may have a hard time competing.
But, every avenue can use a Caribbean vegan/vegetarian shop, so please feel free to run with my investment opportunity suggestion. Very un- "sivilized". -
whynot_31 » http://www.sisterscommunityhardware.com/ ...is really good. It is at Washington and Fulton.
I just went here for the first time this week while working on a bathroom renovation over on Fulton. I've been going to hardware stores all over the country for about 35 years, but this place was absolutely charming and worth the trip."The jawbone of an ass is just as dangerous a weapon today as in Sampson's time."
--- Richard Nixon -
homeowner » What I find amusing is the concept that the neighborhood "needs" things. Why not just accept that there may be things you want to buy that you have to travel for such as books, cheese and wine? Why must every single item be available outside of your door? I can't get a decent beef patty in Park Slope, but no one there seems to think a roti shop is "needed". Why is that okay, but not being able to buy $50 bottles of wine in CH is somehow a problem?
I find the concept that a neighborhood doesn't need things amusing. When I lived in Boerum Hill I could go to five different places for produce- all within 5 minutes of my apartment. Living on Franklin I really have to plan ahead before I make a meal- which can mean having to take a bus or buying days in advance. Are you saying this neighborhood doesn't need more fresh produce options? Sure I can get anything I "need" somewhere else...but why exactly shouldn't I be able to get it here? You can argue over whether a fancy wine shop should be a priority over fresh produce, but I don't understand what you have against convenience for people that live here, no matter what they want. If enough people want roti shops, someone will open a roti shop- no matter where it is. And that's great if you're happy with FA just the way it is...I'm just surprised you can't think of any new business or organization you'd like to see here. -
If disposable income increases in the area, businesses will come. ....there is a delay. Businesses have to be confident that locals want what they are about to offer. If PS wanted Roti, there'd be Roti.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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$50 bottle of wine!? I don't think so ...
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TheBurgerking » $50 bottle of wine!? I don't think so ...
Correct. I do not think it would be rational to expect people to buy $50 bottles of wine on Franklin.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
spnder » [quote="homeowner"]What I find amusing is the concept that the neighborhood "needs" things. Why not just accept that there may be things you want to buy that you have to travel for such as books, cheese and wine? Why must every single item be available outside of your door? I can't get a decent beef patty in Park Slope, but no one there seems to think a roti shop is "needed". Why is that okay, but not being able to buy $50 bottles of wine in CH is somehow a problem?
I find the concept that a neighborhood doesn't need things amusing. When I lived in Boerum Hill I could go to five different places for produce- all within 5 minutes of my apartment. Living on Franklin I really have to plan ahead before I make a meal- which can mean having to take a bus or buying days in advance. Are you saying this neighborhood doesn't need more fresh produce options? Sure I can get anything I "need" somewhere else...but why exactly shouldn't I be able to get it here? You can argue over whether a fancy wine shop should be a priority over fresh produce, but I don't understand what you have against convenience for people that live here, no matter what they want. If enough people want roti shops, someone will open a roti shop- no matter where it is. And that's great if you're happy with FA just the way it is...I'm just surprised you can't think of any new business or organization you'd like to see here.[/quote] This neighborhood has plenty of greengrocers. Nostrand from Park to EP has at least four and there is another just across EP. Not to mention the couple of stores that cater to vegans and vegetarians. My discomfort with this discussion has more to do with the idea of making over a place to be someplace else and in doing so losing some of the flavor of what makes a neighborhood unique. I don't want Franklin Avenue to mirror 7th Avenue or 5th Avenue or Bedford Avenue in Williamsburg. I'd like it to grow organically and to reflect the neighborhood, and if that means that there ultimately end up being things I can't buy on Franklin Avenue, then that's okay as well. -
Which leads me to wonder: Which present avenue in NYC should it resemble? Some quick examples (all in bklyn): Fulton? Myrtle? Church? Utica? Smith? Remember, not too long ago vanderbilt was MUCH different. There were closed stores where there are now botiques. A fish market preceeded Joyce Bake Shop etcFor better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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whynot_31 » Which leads me to wonder: Which present avenue in NYC should it resemble?
Franklin Franklin's definitely got a unique vibe. Definitely a border of two worlds w/a lot of culture. I do think you guys need better produce and a better beef patty spot though. Golden Krust? YEEEEECHHH![Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK
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God, a used bookstore would be so sweet on Franklin Ave, but I really don't think the bills could be paid with that alone, not in this realty market, and in this era; but it would be great, wouldn't it? I can only imagine that possible if someone who owns property had the love of books, and did it for the sake of it, and not for any other reason. I am happy to see that there is a new juice spot between St. John's and Lincoln. I went in there a few times, and I was happy with what I got. I don't know if they have wireless. If so, it's ideal!
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MHA » God, a used bookstore would be so sweet on Franklin Ave, but I really don't think the bills could be paid with that alone, not in this realty market, and in this era; but it would be great, wouldn't it? I can only imagine that possible if someone who owns property had the love of books, and did it for the sake of it, and not for any other reason.
I still don't know how the used book shop on Vanderbilt is still open. I love the idea of it, but I honestly never go there and rarely see people inside. -
Carnivore » [quote="MHA"]God, a used bookstore would be so sweet on Franklin Ave, but I really don't think the bills could be paid with that alone, not in this realty market, and in this era; but it would be great, wouldn't it? I can only imagine that possible if someone who owns property had the love of books, and did it for the sake of it, and not for any other reason.
I still don't know how the used book shop on Vanderbilt is still open. I love the idea of it, but I honestly never go there and rarely see people inside.[/quote] The people who run the shop might own + have paid off the building[Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK
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MHA » I am happy to see that there is a new juice spot between St. John's and Lincoln. I went in there a few times, and I was happy with what I got. I don't know if they have wireless. If so, it's ideal!
Yes, I went in there for the first time yesterday and the juice is great and the people are very friendly. I recommend the Body Cleanser (beets, carrots, ginger, apples). -
Carnivore » [quote="MHA"]God, a used bookstore would be so sweet on Franklin Ave, but I really don't think the bills could be paid with that alone, not in this realty market, and in this era; but it would be great, wouldn't it? I can only imagine that possible if someone who owns property had the love of books, and did it for the sake of it, and not for any other reason.
I still don't know how the used book shop on Vanderbilt is still open. I love the idea of it, but I honestly never go there and rarely see people inside.[/quote] Unnameable Books (on Vanderbilt) is a great little book store, with a good mix of used and new books, particularly from uncommon publishers. Not sure of their financial situation, but I always see several people in there, the staff is friendly, and they're open late (I think until 11pm most nights?). I'd really hate to see it close anytime soon, and I try to support it and the other independent places like Greenlight (on Fulton in Ft. Greene) instead of B&N. It'd be great if Franklin could also support a small book store, but unfortunately opening one would likely be a labor of love rather than a smart investment. -
It's my sense that there is a sense of 'commercial desperation' on Franklin Avenue. For instance, one of the newer establishments right at the corner of Sterling and Franklin is yet another hair salon. Anyone familiar with this area knows that there are already so many hair salons. I am wholly ignorant of the business, but couldn't the proprietor make a deal with a salon already in existence? Isn't the monotony of businesses on Franklin a sign of building owners shirking responsibility? But me saying this is also my biase. After all, one could make the same argument about Breukelen and Pulp and Bean, and Lilly and Fig, as well as Bristen's and Dutch Boy. However, if I owned property and I was approached by a prospective commercial tenant, and they told me that they were going to open up another hair salon, I would have some skepticism about the possibility of success --given the presence of so many other already exisitng salons. If I see this, why doesn't the property owner see this as well? And think of how many bodegas there are on Franklin -- all within just 4 blocks of the train station! What are there, FIVE of them? And it's not like the rules of laissez faire capitalism are working here. The prices for any of the goods and services don't vary much. If anything, they are all the same.
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In this environment, I believe many business owners are taking a "wait and see" approach. Franklin Ave is changing, but they aren't ready to open up shop (our invest in their current shop) yet. ...the converse of "laissez faire capitalism" is something I call "laissez faire cartel-ism". In the former, all stores lower their prices and increase services in order to gain and maintain customers. When they can't stay in business anymore, they stop both techniques and "hold". [everyone was told in college this is what the US strives to be? Ah, the endless quest for the perfect market] In the latter, all stores raise their prices and treat people rudely until people stop going to them. When they are about to go out of business b/c they don't have enough customers, they stop both techniques and "hold". [everyone was told this is something that only occurs in broken markets. i.e. places other than the U.S.] Both factors seem to be competing for dominance over Franklin Ave. Which will win? Note for local evidence of market failure, please visit a C-Town supermarket located within a large NYCHA project. Complete monopoly is established as a result of the customer's inability to shop anywhere else. Fruit is no where to be found.... Franklin Avenue has improved greatly, together with the surrounding area.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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whynot_31 » Which leads me to wonder: Which present avenue in NYC should it resemble? Some quick examples (all in bklyn): Fulton? Myrtle? Church? Utica? Smith? Remember, not too long ago vanderbilt was MUCH different. There were closed stores where there are now botiques. A fish market preceeded Joyce Bake Shop etc
The one thing that all of those streets have in common is that some form of retail commerce even when the neighborhoods that surrounded them remained depressed. Each of them has current businesses that have managed to survive and even thrive over time. Some of them have developed greatly in the past ten years (Smith, Myrtle) and others are still trying to develop a particular identity (Utica, Church, Fulton), but I think that Franklin would be doing fine from the perspective of the business owners if it could have the foot traffic and consistent revenue generation of any of the streets listed above. -
The renovation of the hospital complex (among other developments) has brought some additional disposable income into the 'hood. ...your "foot traffic" comment though has me thinking. I suspect that some of Franklin's potential for capturing $ from that market is lost by some of the "new people" avoiding the avenue due to ongoing crime, trash, and idle men. Which is a Catch 22: If they stopped avoiding the avenue, it might end up better. (kinda like a large group of people who complain that their local schools suck, and send their kids to private schools. If they all could simultaneously convince each to send their kids to the public schools, the schools would improve.... a lot of tuition would be saved.)For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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I would be thrilled to have a Housing Works thrift store, Goodwill store or other type of used clothing/books/housewares/furniture shop that takes donations. Anybody?
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Also, I've been in the neighborhood going on 3 years and still buy aspirin, shampoo, sunscreen, etc. at Duane Reade near my office in midtown. (Better than shopping one of Franklin's craptastic 99-cent stores.) I've heard rumbling about a possible Walgreen's going up at Franklin & Eastern Pkwy, but any full-scale drugstore would be most welcome!
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AP » I would be thrilled to have a Housing Works thrift store, Goodwill store or other type of used clothing/books/housewares/furniture shop that takes donations. Anybody?
I don't think they can afford the local rents. There used to be a Salvation Army on Flatbush and approximately 6th Ave, but it has closed as a result of Atlantic Yards. I didn't really like their politics, but it was close by, so they'd often get stuff I felt guilty throwing away. I think the closest "we will take your old stuff and put in a large pile store" is on Atlantic ....almost as you get to Trader Joe's. Housing Works is awesome. Good politics. Organized store. etc. But I don't know how they scored their current space. I've gotta imagine they are not paying market rents. P.S. Thiftway Drugs has locations on Classon and Washington that are better than the $0.99 stores. ....I also look forward to Walgreens thoughFor better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Wood Oven Pizza Coming Soon- so says the two store fronts next to the new juice place on Franklin.
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The used bookstore on Vanderbilt is a relatively recent addition, so I have to assume they were prepared to pay the rent they're currently being asked for. I also am assuming that because they're so new there they don't own the building (they were formerly located on Bergen btwn Flatbush and 5th). While it would be fun to have a bookstore like that closer to Franklin, I just don't see that being a viable business. A lot of the local retail stores that I'd like to have along Franklin are also those that I'll reluctantly admit I wouldn't actually spend much money in. It would be quaint and lovely to have a butcher, a fishmonger, etc, but I don't think I'd shop there enough to justify "asking" one to open up. I have a reasonable disposable income; I'm just being realistic about where I spend my money. The reality is that for many of us, we'd like to see old-fashioned mom and pops opening up, but unless they're particularly savvy and able to cater to 2010 demands (stay open late to accommodate households where each adult works, etc), they're simply unlikely to be able to compete with the other options we've got in the city. There's a Goodwill on Fulton near Franklin, but it would be nice to have something like that closer down towards Eastern Parkway.
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whynot_31 » [quote="AP"]I would be thrilled to have a Housing Works thrift store, Goodwill store or other type of used clothing/books/housewares/furniture shop that takes donations. Anybody?
I think the closest "we will take your old stuff and put in a large pile store" is on Atlantic ....almost as you get to Trader Joe's.[/quote] There's a goodwill store on Fulton b/t Franklin and Classon. It's got ok stuff sometimes. -
xlizellx » I also would like a book store - used and new - in the area. .
http://www.hawthornestreet.com/2010/09/new-bookstore-opening-on-rogers-this-weekend.html It is listed as Crown Heights and PLG. Either way, I hope it's successful -- and hope that if it is, someone will open one up near me too!
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