[frank garcia]

i lived on 14 st bet 5 and 6 ave i went to ps 51 and then to manuel training high school i rember germains dept stop on 5 ave and 15 st there were 3 bars on 9st 5ave smittys owned by a man called sceamer smith next to hin was dinkys owened by a retired cop from the 72 precent named eddy next to him was the round town at times they served free snacks then there was a great stake bar called the dixie traven on 20st 5 ave owned by a man named toddo marino as a young boy i also raised pigeonshope to hear from some people that rember this

[seven24]

I can recall an old man in the mid-80's that kept pigeons in cages on the rough next to ours. One day a white pigeon flew into my older brothers bedroom and I freaked out-hey I was only like 5. Then soon after they found the old man dead in his bathtub.
-my childhood

[cat]

i don't know how many 'old-timers' so to speak are on this board. sounds interesting tho'. i like to hear about old park slope. hard to imagine raising pigeons being allowed now - although I would love to see it. i have only been in brooklyn the last five years. i know this becomes reason for scorn by some and applause by others.

[Idlewild]

I thought I saw racing pigeons doing the tight circle thing near 20th stree and 5th around a month ago. Back in the late '70's I'd just look up and see them everywhere when I'd walk back from IS 88.

[prusik]

[Tnyc]

Fifth Street & Sixth Avenue here (very long ago) Went to same schools as Frank, as well as PS39. I watched 7th Avenue go from nice little shops, to a ghost town (boarded up store fronts) and the start of what it is today.

Fifth Avenue from 9th street to 16th street was *the* shopping area. I remember some: Germain's dept store on 15th street, a nice toy and hobby shop next to it (I want to say Edelman's or Edelstein's but not sure)

Irwin's specialty baby store around 11th street, Lovitt's childrens wear around 7th street, O'neil's religious articles & card shop on 11th street, Kresge's 5 & 10 on 10th street, Woolworth's on 10th.

Ask some questions to jog my memory.

[prusik]

[Guest]

[Guest]

Hmmm, the above was me. Trying to get the hang of this.

[armchair_warrior]

i swear i could find more car parking spots in the past!
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Fight white guilt and injustice by going to a Native American casino and gamble your money away.

Delete the evil empire!
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[eggcream]

I don't remember Woolworth's...Kresge's 5 & 10 yes and also Germains. There is a jewelry store on 10th st. from the 50's I believe and that record shop on fifth and ninth st. that's been there forever.

This is a great website: http://www.forgotten-ny.com/index.html

[seven24]

In the late 70's early 80's in front of P.S.107, on the corner of 13 street and 8th there was a pizzeria. Which then became Luis Video.
On 12 street and 8th there used to be a salon.

[Guest]

[apollonia666]

[rumblechick]

[dw438]

John's Bargain Stores.
God, they were everywhere in the '60s. Even my little town on Long Island had one.
Even did tv ads ... probably remember this because they advertised on after-school kiddie tv and on the radio.
Now that we have a family member on the board, what happened?
Did they just get Wal-Marted (or some closer, '70's term) away?

[rumblechick]

Yes - you are correct in saying "something closer." John's Bargain Stores ended up to be a partnership. There were three partners. My dad split from the partnership and took a percentage of the stores with him in the late 60's. His geographical area became Baltimore, Washington, Delaware and Virg. A few years later, I remember being about 10 or 11, at a meeting in the Empire State Building. The purpose for this meeting was to buy back the NY stores. Unfortunately, dad, and his previous two partners, could not come to a conclusion. My most vivid memory of this situation was my dad bursting out of double doors, MAD, (my dad rarely gets mad) with my mom following close behind him. I was sitting on a bench outside of this conference room being carefully watched by was what was probably a professional doorman, (we compared our white gloves and hats.) When dad came out he stated, "this is it and let's go!" What I later came to understand was the two partners overbought in NY by $1 million and needed someone to bail them out. Dad was really the only person who could do it. But they wanted extra money for the name in NY - the name was split (somehow) and dad opened more stores in Balto. & DC under Bargain Boys. Dad was not willing to pay them to clean up their mess so they went out of business in NY. Dad sold his stores off one by one. The last store was near John's Hopkins Hospital, in Baltimore on Monument St. It was sold after Christmas in 1979. He lives in Maryland with my mom - they are in their late 80's. I live in Brooklyn, NY and work for a non-profit. My husband and I have a property close to my parents where we stay when we vist. I did not grow up in NY and never realized the impact of these stores until I lived here. I have had people actually save items they purchased from John's and gave them back to me as a gift. I love it! I appreciate the patronage by everyone over the years. There’s a place in my & dad’s heart for every friend, customer and employee. Many thanks and God be with you.

[Tnyc]

[rumblechick]

That was actually my question. My dad's stores were not meant to "bring the neighborhood down." They were to offer the public a quality product at a discount price, either by buying end lots, over runs, or salvage that had nearly nothing wrong with the item. We see the same today at Wal-Mart, Marshalls, T.J Maxx - I have to admit they have a nicer layout to their stores. I, coming from a discout background, only shop discount. My fav - Century 21.

[Tnyc]

John's Bargain Store was very popular in it's day. At that time Park Slope was a very blue collar area, especially so below 8th Avenue. I remember a clothing store called Carter's directly across 5th avenue from John's. PS: Century 21 is my favorite today too.

[dw438]

Part of my childhood. An audio clip of a John's Bargain store ad
resurfaces:

http://christophergross.com/becker/audio.html

[rumblechick]

[rumblechick]

[sligo]

I lived on fifth street between 5 and 6th ave.Before going to the military in 1942 I remember the three bars on 5th ave near nionth street, white house, round town and smittys. Also remember Costellos on 7 street and 5ave.
Full of UK sailors during WWII.
There was another popular bar on 5 ave near 5th street named the Polacks, next to a pizza place where you could bring beer from bar.
When I was a youngster I remember going to church at st, Thomas on 9th stree and fourth avenue. There was a Higgins Ink place neat the church that looked real spooky at night hours.
Shopped at germains and Diamonds soft goods on 5th ave and 7th street.
And of course the old theatres, Prospect and Avon.
Miss all, subways too, but the weather is good here in AZ.
Best,
Jim Wilson

[stacey]

[SouthSlopeSuit]

Anyone know of a good comprehensive history of the area - I keep reading great little tidbits (including at forgottenNY.com), but still feel in the dark about the overall developement of the area since it was originally built up.

What kind of people lived here originally? What's the background behind the different types of buildings - rock solid brownstones in the core, light-weight vinyl-siding in the fringes? When and why did the decline start? When was rock bottom?

This can all be pieced together from sources, and some pertains to general NY history, but I'd love to read a good narrative.

I got here in '91, which feels like yesterday. That was already the 'new Slope', but even so, nothing like it is today. If I could travel back in time, I would force myself to spend my beer money on a down payment on one of those $300K brownstones. Sigh...

[Tnyc]

Here is something printed in the NYTimes in 1998. It gives an overview.
I don't know of a comprehensive history, but I am sure there is one somewhere. The last few paragraphs of the article tells something about
the history of the brownstones.

If You're Thinking of Living In/Park Slope, Brooklyn; Where the Past Is an Abiding Presence Print Save

By JOHN RATHER
Published: February 22, 1998
FOR children raised in Park Slope, a premier Brooklyn neighborhood richly laden with advantages, impoverished beginnings can never be an excuse for later failures.

There is wealth here -- visible in blocks of polished brownstones and attested to by recent sales prices. But it is the breadth of its cultural offerings in a 19th-century architectural setting that frames the life of the community.

With its exquisite churches, stellar brownstone row houses, thriving Seventh Avenue shops and restaurants and the eclectic spirit of both its people and its neo-Renaissance and neo-Classical architectural styles, Park Slope has succeeded as much as any community in New York City in drawing in newcomers as renters and home buyers.

Its proximity to Prospect Park, the Brooklyn Public Library, the Brooklyn Museum and the Brooklyn Botanic Garden adds to its desirability, and subway links to Manhattan are numerous.

And there are restaurants of many nationalities -- Italian, Vietnamese, Chinese, Thai and Japanese -- and cafes and coffee houses along Seventh Avenue.

Residents invariably speak of the small-town feeling and social cohesion of Park Slope, a tree-lined, nearly all-residential area especially attractive to families. It is a place, they said, where activities for children are unending, shopkeepers know their customers and people stop in the street to chat.

''It takes me from 20 minutes to an hour to walk to work, depending on how many people I meet,'' said Lyn Hill, a vice president at New York Methodist Hospital, a 600-bed hospital with 2,700 employees.

The population mix is all-encompassing -- whites, blacks, Hispanics and Asians, and a sizable lesbian and gay community as well.

At St. Augustine Roman Catholic Church, one of several magnificent Catholic and Protestant churches in Park Slope, Masses are given in English, Spanish and Haitian Creole. Temple Beth Elohim, a monumental neo-Classic temple completed in 1909-1910 with a Reform congregation, attests to the long Jewish presence here, which continues.

In few other parts of Brooklyn does the past so enrich the present. The 526-acre Prospect Park on the neighborhood's eastern edge is thronged on weekends by parents and children. The Soldiers' and Sailors' Memorial at Grand Army Plaza, with its twin Doric columns, grand arch and crowning statute of victory in her horse-drawn chariot, is modeled after the Arc de Triomphe.

THE 19th century dwellings of the rich and near-rich, ranging from grand to substantial, make for prime housing stock. Apartment houses are also plentiful as are co-ops, many of them in brownstones.

Brownstones bought in the early 60's for less than $25,000 by brownstone pioneers, many of them teachers lured from Manhattan's Upper West Side or Greenwich Village, now cost $500,0000 to more than $1 million.

''We used to call it the schoolteacher's coup,'' said Everett Ortner, a retired editor of Popular Science magazine. ''They were living in millionaires' houses on a schoolteachers' salary.'' Mr. Ortner and his wife, Evelyn, bought their brownstone in 1963 and were early leaders of the brownstone revival movement.

John Ottavino, an actor, and his wife, Eve, an elementary school teacher, recently paid $500,000 for a three-story brownstone on 11th Street. They rent out the ground floor. ''Everyone asks did you get a good price, and I don't think there is such a thing as that any more,'' said Mr. Ottavino, a former renter. ''I paid what I had to pay.''

Rentals in Park Slope don't stay on the market long, and prices are going up. ''You have to be prepared to act fast,'' said William B. Rue, a sales agent at Marilyn A. Donahue Real Estate. ''Bring your checkbook. Be ready to pull the trigger.''

Co-ops also move briskly. Joan B. Martin, a private school administrator, and her husband, David Oppenheim, a public high school teacher, bought a two-bedroom co-op on Eighth Street off Seventh Avenue for $169,000 last year, after renting in Park Slope for 15 years. The co-op had been on the market 10 days. Recently a similar co-op in the same building sold in a day.

There are a few condominiums. A recent upper-floor renovation at the palatial Montauk Club near Grand Army Plaza created four units.

Matthew Miller, the owner-broker of Heights Berkeley Realty, said he recently sold one of them, a three-bedroom unit, for $467,000. The monthly common charge was just under $300, he said.

The club, whose exterior blends Venetian Gothic style and American Indian motifs, is in the historic district, which runs along the west side of Prospect Park and is generally the most expensive area of Park Slope.

Lower housing prices are farther from the park and to the south, in South Slope, where Patricia A. Neinast, the manager of Brooklyn Landmark's Park Slope office, said houses in the $200,000's can still be found.

Park Slope, part of District 15, has six elementary schools. One that is highly regarded locally, Public School 321, with about 1,300 pupils in prekindergarten through grade 5, tallies scores well above city averages in math and reading standardized tests.

The school has one computer lab and 20 classrooms with computers. It offers inclusion classes for general and special education students.

P.S. 39, with about 475 students in kindergarten through grade 6, also scores above average on city-wide tests. The school also has one computer lab, and computers in 18 classrooms.

The 900-student Middle School 88, where the percentage of students at or above grade level in reading and math tests was below the city average, has a gifted-and-talented program, two computer labs and 16 classrooms with computers.

M.S. 51, which is generally at or above the city average in the citywide tests, has gifted and talented programs.

The 3,500-student John Jay High School has been striving in recent years to improve academically but still has far to go. S.A.T. scores in 1996, the most recent year for which figures were available, averaged 391 in verbal and 388 in mathematics, compared with the citywide average of 448 and 465, respectively.

About two-thirds of graduates go on to higher education. The school has research and honors programs and a broad range of extracurricular activities, from sports to music.

Park Slope accounts for about two-thirds of the 750 students at the Berkeley Carroll school, an independent college preparatory day school for nursery through grade 12 and a major attraction for current and new residents. More than 90 percent of students taking Advanced Placement exams earn college credit.

Tuition ranges from $6,450 for preschool to $15,520 for grade 12. Admission is competitive.

The 150-student Poly Prep Lower School for nursery through grade 4 is a small, child-centered private school that sends graduates to 650-student Poly Prep Middle and Upper schools in Bay Ridge. Tuition at the lower school ranges from $3,000 for two mornings a week in nursery school to $12,500 for fourth grade.

St. Francis Xavier elementary school has 500 students in kindergarten through grade 8. Tuition is $1,800. There is an after-school program for children of working parents.

The Brooklyn Conservatory of Music, in a 117-year-old Victorian Gothic mansion on Seventh Avenue at Lincoln Place, is one of the oldest community music schools in the country. It offers private and group instruction for voice or instruments in styles from classical to jazz.

THE farmland and hills that are now part of Prospect Park and Park Slope were scenes of bloody engagements during the Battle of Long Island in August 1776.

In the 1850's, when its 200,000 inhabitants made Brooklyn the third largest city in the country, sentiment grew for a park to rival Manhattan's Central Park. The State Legislature appointed Frederick Law Olmsted, the landscape architect for Central Park, and Calvert Vaux.

By then Edwin Clark Litchfield, who made a fortune in railroads, had purchased land for development in Park Slope.

The opening of the park in 1874 and completion of the Brooklyn Bridge in 1883 established Park Slope, a name that describes its parkside location and topography.

Housing construction had begun in what is now the historic district prior to the Civil War.

The pace quickened during the late 1870's and the 1880's, when mansions rose along the park and sturdy row houses marched down side streets to the west. It crested prior to World War I.

But by the 1920's, mansions were being razed for apartment houses and brownstones were going out of fashion. By the end of World War II, many had been carved up into rooming houses. Through the 50's, middle-class families moved to the suburbs and urban decay set in.

In the early 60's, brownstone pioneers, recognizing bargains, arrived to renovate and restore fading brownstones and eventually reverse the area's precipitous decline. Park Slope has been on the rise ever since.

[GloryB]

Sepe's Toys(and the beauty parlor next door) on 11th and 5th and Platt's on 12th? How about Meyers (they sold everything) on the corner of 12th street? J Michaels Furniture between 12th and 13th? The old Neergaards and the bank on 9th and 5th before it became a sportsclub and Eckerds. :Oh! And the luggage store on 11th and 5th. Sun Joy Chinese restaurant on 9th and Homs and the Bridal shop that took up half the block? And who remembers when Mcdonalds was a movie theater? The Cube Steak restaurant.

BTW The pet shop on 9th has closed. The only thing that is left besides Smiths Tavern is the hardware store on 5th between 7th and 8th.

Thanks for the memories of Kresges. Remember the lunch counter? And the balloons you picked for a "surprise" ice cream sundae? And I think there was ALWAYS a parakeet loose and flying around the store....

[Tnyc]

That hardware store was Fazio's before it became Leopoldi's. Westminster Men's shop between 9th & 10th, Miracle Corner on 13th, Ginsberg's (toys or sports?) next to Germain's on 15th. The 72nd Pct on 16th street, Lincoln Appliances on 15th or 16th? The bridal shop on 9th was Henrietta's Bridal. Avon Theater where McDonald's is now. Prospect theater further up. What was the name of the restaurant that was next to the Prospect, was it Bickfords?

I remember the lunch counter and the ladies in hairnets in yellow uniforms with little white aprons. You are right, ALWAYS at least one stray parakeet flying around.

[charlie]

Looking at a posting by mickey 1 back in o6 about 5th ave and the Dixie tavern. Every sunday business was done in the early morning and a lot of respect was paid, but you had to see the joint on Toddo's birthday. Flowers from floor to ceiling on each wall. The only other person held in greater respect in that place was Toddo's hero Jimmy Durante, whose pictures filled the windows and walls.
You also mention the three gin mills in a row between 8th and 9th but you forget to add Costellos on the corner of 8th and Andys arouond the corner on ninth, a total of five within 200 ft. How the wives did suffer.

[eggcream]

In case anyone went to St. Saviour Elementary School they are having a 50th reunion on 3/9/07 at Grand Prospect Hall. You can check out the site at stsaviouralumni.org.

[Displaced NYer]

My parents grew up in the outskirts of what is now considered Park Slope and my grandmother still lives there. As my father says, she's stayed in her house long enough for the neighborhood to be good again My favorite childhood memories include spending weekends in the neighborhood with my grandparents- hanging out on the stoop with my cousins, walking to Prospect Park, eating at the diner after attending mass at St. Thomas Aquinas. Of course this was in the 70's and 80's before the area's rebirth. In the mid-nineties I worked in Fort Greene and Bed-Stuy areas and always hoped to move to Bklyn. I no longer live in NY, but it is my plan to someday return to Park Slope- permanently. Unfortunately, I fear I've been priced out...

[filmlover44]

[digbklyn]

I moved to the corner of 3rd St. and 7th Ave in 1976 when that was near the edge of the "good part" of Park Slope. Herzog's Deli was downstairs and Al's Toyland was across the street. My rent for the whole floor (now a dentist's office) was $250 at first, but for two years my landlord, Mr. Herzog, lowered it to $225 because I was going to school at NYU, his alma mater
For several wonderful years into the early 80's, there was lots of live music in bars on 7th Ave. You could walk down the street and choose between 3 or 4 places to hear jazz, blues, folk, etc. Even on weeknites. And no cover charge.
An old man came around on trash nite with a horse and wagon picking up stuff. He kept the horse in a lot near the Smith/9th St. F train stop.
I got priced out, of course, but now I'm in Windsor Terrace where people measure their time in the neighborhood in terms of generations, not years. I'm sorry I missed John's Bargain Stores. For the current version, try Bobby's on Church Ave near the D train. Especially for housewares.

[Idlewild]

I lived on the opposite side of Herzog's. The fried chicken scent would seep into my room. The scent was so heavy you could eat the air and have a great meal.
_________________
I'm a Chain Belt...that's called the "quart of blood" technique. You do that, a quart of blood will drop out of a man's body.

[i360]

Foreman's hardware store on 5th between 13th and 14th street, next to the Lucky Buck bar. There was the 5th avenue gym on 15th street and 5th. Partially owned by an ex cop, who actually lives near us hear in Florida, family friend. He also owned the video store on 5th between 12th & 13th streets, Dawson's video. There was a small jewelery store next to the corner of 11th and 5th, which the owner was robbed and killed in the store. I remember walking by after it happened and seeing his body on the floor, he was a nice man. Pizza parlors galore all over 5th avenue, run by real genuine Italians. Platts toy store which I spend a nice chunk of my childhood. The fruit stand on the corner of 12th and 5th, always had fresh fruit.

Burger King on the corner of 10th and 5th, was always dingy and had sketchy people hanging out in there, mostly homeless whom only offended by scent. There was a candy store on 12th and 5th called Get Even. Sort of a candy store slash diner with video games. It was plagued by the people who went to the OTB right next door on 12th and 5th.

Just a little history which is long forgotten and only remembered by few.

[nkotsonis]

Does anyone know what's going on with the store front where Snooky's used to be for so many years?
They used to make the best lobster roll sandwiches.

[backtopsb]

Oh that Burger King! (Where Astoria Federal is now.) I just remember it was really dark and scary, at least for a 5 year old. There was some scare at one point that the fries had mice in them. Of course a friend of a friend of a friend was the person who found it.

[icejice]

I remember going to that Burger King with my Grandma and riding some kind of burger merry-go-round. It smelled funny in there. Also, right outside of Neergaards on 5th Ave. used to be this machine with a chicken in it. You would put a quarter in and a mechanical chicken would spin and out popped an egg with a toy in it. I loved that thing!

[stacey]

[Redrider]

Hey oldtimers:

Can anyone tell me what the storefront on the corner of 7th avenue and 11th street (right next to Animal Kind) is or used to be? The security gates have always been down... it seems like there's some sort of woodworking studio around the corner on 11th, but I've always wondered what was going on in that corner space, since it's been closed up for all the years I've lived here.

just curious.

[caseopele]

Here's the story we've been hearing about Snooky's (being across the street we get asked about it alot). There were 2 owners, one sold their half to someone who owns a bunch of restaurants. They have completely gutted the place and are turning it into (wait for it) another italian restaurant. More upscale and Park Slopey. Bar moved to the back so people can eat in the window.

Out of the many people who've asked about Snooky's, there have been the few saying how glad they are it's gone. Because it was such a dive, and not PS worthy, blah, blah, blah. But most people have been upset, it was a neighborhood fixture and it was what it was. I sent people over there all the time who just wanted to go somewhere for a beer. It was a bar that had bar food, it wasn't expensive. I'm sure when the new place opens the salad I used to get from Snooky's for $5 will end up costing twice as much.
_________________
A man needs a little madness, or else he never dares cut the rope and be free. -Nikos Kazantzakis

[filmlover44]

Is that the place on prospect avenue between 6th & 7th?
_________________
Ok, now I'm crazy. Another goal achieved.

[Idlewild]

Snooky's is on 7th Ave between Garfield and Carroll. It used to be a great place.
_________________
I'm a Chain Belt...that's called the "quart of blood" technique. You do that, a quart of blood will drop out of a man's body.

[filmlover44]

Ah. What was the bar on Prospect Ave? I know there was one, because there is a big "PUB" sign on the building but no Pub.
_________________
Ok, now I'm crazy. Another goal achieved.