[pastoralia]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/22/nyregion/22.....ef=slogin&oref=slogin

[b]An Outpost in the Blue Sea of Brooklyn[/b]

It is as lonely an outpost as the Alamo, the gritty determination of its Brooklyn brotherhood reflected in the approaching eyeballs of a far larger army, like the 300 Spartans of legend in Thermopylae — but minus 296 Spartans.

Four — count ’em, four — brownstones on a single Park Slope block are waving a flag rare enough in this liberal bastion to stop passers-by in their tracks: “McCain.” The signs, with white letters against a rectangular navy blue background — for those in Park Slope who have most likely never seen a McCain sign — are taped carefully to living-room windows or strapped tightly to the burglar bars on the front door. Compared with the surrounding neighborhood, thick with Obama signs, buttons and banners, this block of 11th Street off Fifth Avenue is as red as a hot patch of East Texas.

“People say, ‘What’s wrong with you?’ ” said Betty Donohue, 73, whose McCain sign has been up for two months. “They say, ‘He’s not going anywhere.’” She laughed and shrugged on Tuesday and said she would wear a McCain T-shirt if she knew where to find one.

The election district that includes 11th Street has 643 registered voters: 51 of them Republicans, 452 Democrats, 23 in other parties and 117 who did not list a party. That breakdown is echoed by the overwhelmingly Democratic makeup of Assembly District 52, as well as that of Brooklyn, which voted 79 percent for Senator John Kerry in 2004.

The little Republican presence on 11th Street became visible in August, when one neighbor got the signs, but it really started decades ago, a lifetime ago, as long as the residents in those four brownstones have known one another. When Mrs. Donohue and her husband bought their home in 1965, most everyone on the block seemed to be Roman Catholic and have six or eight children, supported by a paycheck from the Fire Department, the Police Department or another city agency.

“You had 100 children on the block,” she said (the Donohues had six). Then this family sold its home, and this one and that one, and the neighborhood changed. “Now these professionals, they both work, they have nannies and their meals on wheels,” she said, using her favorite description of restaurant deliveries.

“But lovely people,” she continued. “To pay these prices, you aren’t getting riffraff.”

The Donohues and two other families who have been there forever, the Dixons and the Olsons, got to talking over the summer, and the way they remember it, somebody said something about getting signs, and Bob Olson — a handyman whose professional motto is, “We Repair What Your Husband Fixed” — volunteered.

“I’m a perverse kind of guy,” said Mr. Olson, 43, a registered Democrat who described himself as less pro-Senator John McCain than anti-Senator Barack Obama. “I was going to put up a sign that said: ‘Nobama. Keep the Change.’ ”

Mr. Olson’s wife, Susan, talked him out of it, and he picked up four McCain signs in Woodbridge, N.J. The fourth was for the woman who lives next door, whom he has known all his life and refers to as his aunt. (“You could put Attila the Hun on the Republican ticket and she’d vote for him,” Mr. Olson said.)

In this day of Facebook profiles and blogs updated throughout the day, a simple piece of thin cardboard in the window can be easy to miss. Indeed, most people on 11th Street just walk by, pushing strollers or wearing earphones or talking on cellphones. Every now and then, though, someone stops.

“These people are supposedly liberal, but there’s a few in the neighborhood that, you go against their opinion, they’ll tell you to your face,” said Mrs. Olson, who is 48 and helps out with her husband’s business. He agreed: “There are some people who come up and debate me all the time.”

Like his neighbor Richard Elovich, a sociologist who has lived on 11th Street for 10 years and has never voted Republican.

“I tease Bob,” Mr. Elovich, 53, said. “I’ll try to challenge him in a way. What’s his thinking? What’s McCain going to do for him?” He said he interpreted the McCain signs as an invitation: “To me, that says the person’s possibly open to some dialogue.”

Mr. Elovich is more bothered by the indifferent voters on the block, the younger ones who say the Democrats and the Republicans are all the same. “There’s a certain kind of white male in New York, where life is about not being part of any group,” he said. “Their idea of democracy is limited, in a certain sense, to individualism.”

None of the McCain sign-bearers said they felt threatened by anything approaching vandalism in this polite neighborhood. “A couple of people said to me, ‘You better be careful, putting that up,’ ” said Mrs. Donohue. “Are you kidding me?”

The number of McCain signs may change before Election Day. Down the block, Margie Dixon’s sign hangs among her collection of colorful Irish and Catholic-themed suncatchers, and she was happy enough to hang it. But lately she has been growing concerned about Senator McCain’s age, 72, and feeling less comfortable announcing a political stance in public, on a block where she has lived for 38 years.

“I’m really hedging — I’m almost one of those undecideds,” said Mrs. Dixon, 75 “I’ve never put anything in my window. I’m thinking of taking it down, because I’m flip-flopping.”

Griff Palmer contributed reporting.

[hitokiri]

"now we know their names" ...


And?

[Mamacita]

Well hunt them down of course
_________________
(\__/)
(=’.'=)
(”)_(”) "Gentrifire Extinguisher"

[metalnyc]

you don't know my name and I'm voting for McCain. Boo!

[Retag]

I love being anti-Obama in Brooklyn! Everyone expects for everyone else to be liberal, but then I tell them my reasons why Obama is terrible. They get shocked and start bashing McCain. Then I inform them how I don't like McCain either and then they realize they ran out of ammo.

I had a Badnarik sign 4 years ago, but I don't think my girlfriend will allow me to put up anti-Obama signs. My guitar/bass gig bags have Obama Hype postcards taped on. I love the looks I get on the subway. Here in Windsor Terrace, there are a few McCain signs up.

[transplant]

Mamacita said,

[CunninLynguists]

[transplant]

You betcha.

[eggcream]

Palin for President! She has more experience than the community organizer.

[Mamacita]

AHHH! I'm surrounded!
_________________
(\__/)
(=’.'=)
(”)_(”) "Gentrifire Extinguisher"

[Carnivore]

[transplant]

[booklaw]

A mind is a terrible thing to waste...

[brooklynpotter]

my uterus (and i) are voting obama.
_________________
what would you tell me, if i could hear you speaking?--t.r.

[babel]

If you are voting Republican you are either ignorant and uninformed or just plain cruel.

[transplant]

"More experience shopping, maybe."
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste..."
"my uterus (and i) are voting obama."
"If you are voting Republican you are either ignorant and uninformed or just plain cruel."

Kind of like your man Obama, lots of slogans, rhetoric and a few insults for good measure, but no real ideas...

[metalnyc]

[joncane]

[brooklynpotter]

ok, i'm going to try to tackle this as politely as possible.

if half this country (women) don't have full control over our bodies or access to good and comprehensive healthcare because of the christian agenda--and i'm not just talking about "abortion as birth control" which someone will bring up, or "partial birth abortion" which doesn't even exist...--then half of our country is being disenfranchised and being denied civil rights.

if 50% of the country is being denied their civil rights, something is very very wrong.

so long as this is the party line of the GOP, and it's their position, i can't vote for them.. because if they did the dame thing to blacks or jews or men, for example, it wouldn't be tolerated.
_________________
what would you tell me, if i could hear you speaking?--t.r.

[transplant]

brooklynpotter:

Thank you, I think that being pro-abortion is a good reason for not supporting McCain/Palin, and by process of elimination, voting for Obama.

Having said that, I disagree with you, I don't think abortion is a "civil right" or has anything at all to do with disenfranchisement, but I'm not going to try to change your mind on that issue, since honestly, I could care less, I think the less input the government has in social issues the better.

I also don't understand how some so-called "Christian agenda" is at all responsible or related to a supposed lack of access to good and comprehensive healthcare...you're kind of all over the map there.

But at least you didn't resort to random insults or meaningless, unfunny jokes like most liberals. That's a start.

[Em26]

McCain voters can go kick rocks.

Look into the eye of ebil:

McCain.



Obama!
_________________
"Some people make their goals the stars,
They may live and die never reaching them,
but in the darkness of the night, those stars will guide them to their destination,because they put them in their sights."

[metalnyc]

[brooklynpotter]

transplant, i never said i was pro-abortion. EVER.

the christian agenda has decided what "terms" are allowed to have a termination. (in judaism, for example, an embryo isn't a life till it's born). if another religion is keeping me from practicing my own, that's a civil rights violation.

if i need healthcare and need to go to a clinic, that clinic cannot receive federal funds if it performs abortions. if i need an abortion and cannot get one, then my civil rights are being violated.

if i go to a clinic that receives federal money they cannot even tell me that abortion is an option. if i am not told all of my civil rights then they are being trampled upon.

being able to practice your own religion or believe what you want is part of america. if i am forced to follow someone elses' religion, then i have no freedom of religion and my civil rights are being violated.
_________________
what would you tell me, if i could hear you speaking?--t.r.

[transplant]

***sigh***

Em26 - so you're basing your decision on whether or not your candidate looks good on the cover of Vibe? I weep for the future...

[brooklynpotter]

and, transplant, i'm not going to insult you or call you names. i don't work that way. we all believe different things. i just want people to know exactly why i believe what i do.
_________________
what would you tell me, if i could hear you speaking?--t.r.

[babel]

Unaffordable health care is pretty cruel to everyone.


Never ending war is pretty cruel to the ones that are having bombs dropped on them and to the poor suckers who are being taken advantage of by being sent over seas to defend our "freedom".

It is ignorant to think that Republicans are for small government.

Taxes pay for civilization, to not pay them is cruel. It is cruel for our tax dollars to pay for the war machine.

If people think that we are policing the world for bad guys or spreading democracy they are uninformed.

If they are for empire then they are cruel.

Don't get me wrong, the Democrats aren't perfect either. They have a lot of similarities in their foreign policy. But for the ideals each party represents there is an absolute difference.

I wish we had a Socialist candidate. Kucinich, or someone like him would have been my choice.

Before you say a Socialism system would not work in this country all you have to do is look at Europe. For example look how Switzerland changed their health care system to universal. Even though they are a huge capitalistic country with big insurance and drug companies.

[transplant]

brooklypotter - You can argue semantics all you want, but if you're basing your voting decision on whether or not a candidate would allow abortions or not, and based on that rational, you're supporting the pro-abortion candidate, then you're pro-abortion.

The "christian agenda" has done no such thing. Laws in this country are made based upon the will of the people. Granted, a majority of those people happen to be of a particular religion, but there are A) plenty of non-Christians who are pro-life; and B) plenty of Christians that are pro-abortion. To label laws in this country as part of a "christian agenda" is overly simplistic, and ignores the fact that approximately half the country, if not more, believes that abortion is wrong. Their religion has nothing to do with the law. Therefore, abortion, or lack thereof, is not a civil right.

With regards to your statement about abortion clinics recieving federal funds, do you really believe that it is ok for the government to force people to pay money to enable a medical procedure (in the majority of cases, a completely voluntary and unnecessary medical procedure, in terms of the mother's health) that they consider murder?

In addition, abortions are readily available elsewhere, just not at the expense of people who have an absolute moral conflict with the act. If you want to get an abortion, you're quite capable of procuring one, but I'm not going to pay for it. I see no civil rights violation there. No one is forcing you to follow any religion by forcing you to pay for your own abortion.

Healthcare is not a civil right. Abortions are not a civil right. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are civil rights. Everything else is up to you.

[BrooklynGigCenter]

Great article on Obama today by Joe Klein in Time:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1853025-2,00.html

I could not possibly see either McCain or Palin using this level of maturity or reason, ever.

[LongTimeSloper]

Maybe I shouldn't even bring this up because this is a hot button issue with me, but, Partial birth abortion doesn't even exist? How so?


And Palin as VP just scares me, no way in my mind is she ready to be president and she is just a heartbeat away if McCain is elected.

[babel]

Love the fetus, hate the child.

[LongTimeSloper]

removed

[brooklynpotter]

then we disagree, because i believe healthcare should be a right, and the rights for everyone should be equal.

i don't love the way the term "pro-abortion" gets thrown around as if those of us who want to keep our reproductive decisions between ourselves and our doctors means we think abortions are a great thing.

i hate war, but sometimes it needs to happen. am i pro-war?

but, i will use your terminology. i am pro-abortion when a woman wants to terminate an embryo or fetus. it's her body. some of us do not believe that life begins at conception. telling someone that they have to go through with a pregnancy is a very slippery slope. you never know when you might lose your footing. taking away the right altogether puts woman's health and our lives in jeopardy. yes: if there is no exception for the life or health of the mother, or if women are forced to carry fetuses that are not viable,women will die. i know of at least one woman who would be dead, right now. keeping ourselves alive is a civil right.

the whole "will of the people" argument would be fine if each decision was left up to the people to vote on. instead we have to choose others to make those choices for us. (and i would love to see your stat about most people wanting abortion to be illegal, because i don't believe that's true. i'm searching for stats on this side as well:ones from a news source, not from a right or left wing group.)

i would never ask you to pay for my abortion--nor did i ever say i was going to have one--but when you make women travel to get abortions then those without any $$ or resources cannot make the healthcare choices they need.
_________________
what would you tell me, if i could hear you speaking?--t.r.

[transplant]

Here we go:

[brooklynpotter]

[LongTimeSloper]

Really? there are lots of Europeans and Canadians coming here for medical procedures? i find that hard to beleive! Did you see Sicko?

And, yes, I have friends in Australia and NZ and they tell me about having to wait for non emergency procedures and most of them don't see it as a big deal, they still think their health care systems are head and shoulders above the rest!

[LongTimeSloper]

[Jamzer]

[Livetotravel]

There are many Repugs living in Park Slope - they started coming here in the get rich Reagan years and proliferated during the hay-days of hedge funds. Now that the perpetrators of great frauds on unsuspecting investors are being investigated by the scores - maybe, just maybe, the Repugs-come-lately will abandon Park Slope for good and return to Staten Island where they belong.
_________________
But that's impossible.

http://unratedunfiltered.com/

[metalnyc]

[ev965]

http://tinyurl.com/6yqkcc

Suburban Virginia drugstore doesn't sell contraceptives

A new drugstore outside Washington, D.C., is putting its faith in an unconventional business plan: No candy. No sodas. And no contraceptives.

12:00 AM CDT on Wednesday, October 22, 2008
The Associated Press

[brooklynpotter]

[transplant]

[BrooklynGigCenter]

[babel]

Yeah just look at all those sick Canadians and Europeans. Have you ever wondered why terrorists are willing to blow themselves and others up? Because they hate our freedom and values? Why don't you try to find out why they are so fanatical instead of trying to take a simplistic view. I never think that violence is justified but don't you think they are tired of being picked on?

[transplant]