I've been getting a lot of heat (but also support) for publicizing my weblog on these boards. Over the last 14 years I've seen the unleashed dogs in Prospect Park go from a few dozen to a few hundred. Somedays it's even more. A large number of dog owners completely disregard the "legal" hours and locations.
I am one of 8 children and, over the years, we've had 4 dogs, 6 cats, gerbils, birds, turtles, etc. My mother and 6 of my siblings still have dogs. I love dogs. I don't like irresponsible pet owners. My point is, I don't see off-leash courtesy hours as being good for animals or people. To that end I've done considerable research regarding laws, local government, animal advocacy groups, articles from reputable sources, photographs and put them together on a single weblog:
My "opinion" is backed up by the ASPCA, the Humane Society, the AKC, the Center for Disease Control and other, unbiased sources.
Livetotravel Rent Stabilized
Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 1630 Location: A block from the Park
Fri Aug 25, 06 12:35 pm EST
All of that doesn't make it right however. Your solution is simply Draconian. Self-policing is the progressive alternative. Work with FIDO to get more volunteer monitors during off-leash hours. _________________ But that's impossible.
Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 911 Location: South Slope
Fri Aug 25, 06 12:48 pm EST
So your arguments for ending the offleash privilege are:
1. It's really popular, and
2. Some people don't follow the rules.
Not sure how to address your first point, but as for the second, I would be in favor of a crackdown on people who abuse the off-leash privileges. If you have a dog offleash outside the offleash areas or outside the designated hours, you should get a ticket. Wouldn't that be a better solution?
caaahyoko Carneviento Devotee
Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 1258
Fri Aug 25, 06 1:16 pm EST
ParkAdvocate wrote:
Over the last 14 years I've seen the unleashed dogs in Prospect Park go from a few dozen to a few hundred. Somedays it's even more.
Hundreds? I've never seen more than 15-20 in one area of the park at one time. Don't know about FIDO events, but hundreds? Come on.
quijibo Crooklyn Ninja
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 2028 Location: taintalicious!
Fri Aug 25, 06 2:18 pm EST
caaahyoko wrote:
ParkAdvocate wrote:
Over the last 14 years I've seen the unleashed dogs in Prospect Park go from a few dozen to a few hundred. Somedays it's even more.
Hundreds? I've never seen more than 15-20 in one area of the park at one time. Don't know about FIDO events, but hundreds? Come on.
oh man. it's true. the park is full of roving gangs of violent dogs
all grabbing their crotches, full-a-bling and wearing doorags
they're a menace! _________________ I know that there are people who do not love their fellow man, and I hate people like that! -- Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
caaahyoko Carneviento Devotee
Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 1258
Fri Aug 25, 06 5:06 pm EST
quijibo wrote:
oh man. it's true. the park is full of roving gangs of violent dogs
all grabbing their crotches, full-a-bling and wearing doorags
they're a menace!
Oh! I just thought the people were getting hairy. You know, as a natural adaptation to protect themselves from the mosquito spraying chemicals.
Christopher Guest Guest
Fri Aug 25, 06 11:10 pm EST
caaahyoko wrote:
ParkAdvocate wrote:
Over the last 14 years I've seen the unleashed dogs in Prospect Park go from a few dozen to a few hundred. Somedays it's even more.
Hundreds? I've never seen more than 15-20 in one area of the park at one time. Don't know about FIDO events, but hundreds? Come on.
Hmmm, according to an article by Amy Sacks in the Daily News and reprinted on the FIDO website it's as high as 700:
"Prospect Park Gone To Dogs
By Army Sacks
Daily News, May 11, 2002
On most mornings, Lia Mehos dangles a leash by her side and watches her collie. Lucy, run free and unfettered through the fenceless grassy meadows in Prospect Park.
The 526 acre Brooklyn oasis offers the most generous off-leash privileges of any of the city's parks. Resembling an English countryside more than urban sprawl, the park provides Mehos and hundreds of dog owners the longest off-leash courtesy hours and the largest spaces - including three meadows, where a spring Saturday attracts up to 700 free-range canines. [...]"
WhyFi Staid and Dull
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 4389 Location: In the Groove
Sat Aug 26, 06 8:02 am EST
Christopher Guest wrote:
caaahyoko wrote:
ParkAdvocate wrote:
Over the last 14 years I've seen the unleashed dogs in Prospect Park go from a few dozen to a few hundred. Somedays it's even more.
Hundreds? I've never seen more than 15-20 in one area of the park at one time. Don't know about FIDO events, but hundreds? Come on.
Hmmm, according to an article by Amy Sacks in the Daily News and reprinted on the FIDO website it's as high as 700:
"Prospect Park Gone To Dogs
By Army Sacks
Daily News, May 11, 2002
On most mornings, Lia Mehos dangles a leash by her side and watches her collie. Lucy, run free and unfettered through the fenceless grassy meadows in Prospect Park.
The 526 acre Brooklyn oasis offers the most generous off-leash privileges of any of the city's parks. Resembling an English countryside more than urban sprawl, the park provides Mehos and hundreds of dog owners the longest off-leash courtesy hours and the largest spaces - including three meadows, where a spring Saturday attracts up to 700 free-range canines. [...]"
Over the course of the day, not at once.
quijibo Crooklyn Ninja
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 2028 Location: taintalicious!
Sat Aug 26, 06 9:50 am EST
ParkAdvocate wrote:
I am one of 8 children and, over the years, we've had 4 dogs, 6 cats, gerbils, birds, turtles, etc. My mother and 6 of my siblings still have dogs. I love dogs. I don't like irresponsible pet owners. My point is, I don't see off-leash courtesy hours as being good for animals or people. To that end I've done considerable research regarding laws, local government, animal advocacy groups, articles from reputable sources, photographs and put them together on a single weblog:
you wouldn't be that guy that filled a piece of meat with pins and needles
and left it on the street so that a dog would eat it would you? _________________ I know that there are people who do not love their fellow man, and I hate people like that! -- Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
Christopher Guest Guest
Sat Aug 26, 06 11:09 am EST
WhyFi wrote:
Christopher Guest wrote:
caaahyoko wrote:
ParkAdvocate wrote:
Over the last 14 years I've seen the unleashed dogs in Prospect Park go from a few dozen to a few hundred. Somedays it's even more.
Hundreds? I've never seen more than 15-20 in one area of the park at one time. Don't know about FIDO events, but hundreds? Come on.
Hmmm, according to an article by Amy Sacks in the Daily News and reprinted on the FIDO website it's as high as 700:
"Prospect Park Gone To Dogs
By Army Sacks
Daily News, May 11, 2002
On most mornings, Lia Mehos dangles a leash by her side and watches her collie. Lucy, run free and unfettered through the fenceless grassy meadows in Prospect Park.
The 526 acre Brooklyn oasis offers the most generous off-leash privileges of any of the city's parks. Resembling an English countryside more than urban sprawl, the park provides Mehos and hundreds of dog owners the longest off-leash courtesy hours and the largest spaces - including three meadows, where a spring Saturday attracts up to 700 free-range canines. [...]"
Over the course of the day, not at once.
"Over the course of the day" wasn't written anywhere in the article. IF you go to the FIDO website you can read the entire story.
ParkAdvocate Guest
Sat Aug 26, 06 11:17 am EST
quijibo wrote:
ParkAdvocate wrote:
I am one of 8 children and, over the years, we've had 4 dogs, 6 cats, gerbils, birds, turtles, etc. My mother and 6 of my siblings still have dogs. I love dogs. I don't like irresponsible pet owners. My point is, I don't see off-leash courtesy hours as being good for animals or people. To that end I've done considerable research regarding laws, local government, animal advocacy groups, articles from reputable sources, photographs and put them together on a single weblog:
you wouldn't be that guy that filled a piece of meat with pins and needles
and left it on the street so that a dog would eat it would you?
You are a very sick person. Where in any of my postings would you get the impression that I was into injuring animals? Your comment borders on slander and you should be more careful how you choose your words.
This is just a perverted tactic to deflect the discussions from the real issue.
trixieNYC Regular
Joined: 14 Jun 2006 Posts: 196
Sat Aug 26, 06 11:27 am EST
ParkAdvocate wrote:
quijibo wrote:
ParkAdvocate wrote:
I am one of 8 children and, over the years, we've had 4 dogs, 6 cats, gerbils, birds, turtles, etc. My mother and 6 of my siblings still have dogs. I love dogs. I don't like irresponsible pet owners. My point is, I don't see off-leash courtesy hours as being good for animals or people. To that end I've done considerable research regarding laws, local government, animal advocacy groups, articles from reputable sources, photographs and put them together on a single weblog:
you wouldn't be that guy that filled a piece of meat with pins and needles
and left it on the street so that a dog would eat it would you?
You are a very sick person. Where in any of my postings would you get the impression that I was into injuring animals? Your comment borders on slander and you should be more careful how you choose your words.
This is just a perverted tactic to deflect the discussions from the real issue.
Dude, he's yanking your chain....that happens a lot 'round these parts. THAT and a lot of veering off topic. look around, see fer yerself. lighten up a smidge.
WhyFi Staid and Dull
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 4389 Location: In the Groove
Sat Aug 26, 06 11:31 am EST
Christopher Guest wrote:
WhyFi wrote:
Christopher Guest wrote:
caaahyoko wrote:
ParkAdvocate wrote:
Over the last 14 years I've seen the unleashed dogs in Prospect Park go from a few dozen to a few hundred. Somedays it's even more.
Hundreds? I've never seen more than 15-20 in one area of the park at one time. Don't know about FIDO events, but hundreds? Come on.
Hmmm, according to an article by Amy Sacks in the Daily News and reprinted on the FIDO website it's as high as 700:
"Prospect Park Gone To Dogs
By Army Sacks
Daily News, May 11, 2002
On most mornings, Lia Mehos dangles a leash by her side and watches her collie. Lucy, run free and unfettered through the fenceless grassy meadows in Prospect Park.
The 526 acre Brooklyn oasis offers the most generous off-leash privileges of any of the city's parks. Resembling an English countryside more than urban sprawl, the park provides Mehos and hundreds of dog owners the longest off-leash courtesy hours and the largest spaces - including three meadows, where a spring Saturday attracts up to 700 free-range canines. [...]"
Over the course of the day, not at once.
"Over the course of the day" wasn't written anywhere in the article. IF you go to the FIDO website you can read the entire story.
Is it specified that they're all there at once?
caaahyoko Carneviento Devotee
Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 1258
Sat Aug 26, 06 3:17 pm EST
Regardless, has anyone actually gone and counted?? Or are we all just talking out of our asses? I know I am.
pitu Fake Buddhist
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 6489 Location: Utopian Park Slope
Sat Aug 26, 06 3:28 pm EST
I go all the time. I never count, but I don't think I've ever seen 700 beasts at once. That kind of thing would stand out . . .
More like dozens. Maybe on the weekends - barely - hundreds, on a particularly popular day.
armchair_warrior retsop cixelsyd
Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 5800 Location: boondocks
Sat Aug 26, 06 3:30 pm EST
never seen hundreds myself. thats unpossible!!
pitu Fake Buddhist
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 6489 Location: Utopian Park Slope
Sat Aug 26, 06 3:32 pm EST
armchair_warrior wrote:
never seen hundreds myself. thats unpossible!!
armchair, nothing is unpossible
armchair_warrior retsop cixelsyd
Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 5800 Location: boondocks
Sat Aug 26, 06 3:34 pm EST
pitu wrote:
armchair_warrior wrote:
never seen hundreds myself. thats unpossible!!
armchair, nothing is unpossible
nu uh so there .
Last edited by armchair_warrior on Sat Aug 26, 06 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
steve Cylon
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 1263
Sat Aug 26, 06 3:43 pm EST
Hundreds seems pretty reasonable. Long Meadow, Saturday and Sunday before 9. What do you thunk Quijibo?
Livetotravel Rent Stabilized
Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 1630 Location: A block from the Park
Sat Aug 26, 06 4:22 pm EST
I'm there all the time also - on dry, pleasant, sunny day, late spring, before everyone gets away on the weekends - couple of hundred for sure - no question. _________________ But that's impossible.
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 2028 Location: taintalicious!
Sat Aug 26, 06 5:57 pm EST
steve wrote:
Hundreds seems pretty reasonable. Long Meadow, Saturday and Sunday before 9. What do you thunk Quijibo?
yea. couple of hundred for sure. no question
although terry the deer hound might count as two dawgs _________________ I know that there are people who do not love their fellow man, and I hate people like that! -- Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
pitu Fake Buddhist
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 6489 Location: Utopian Park Slope
Sat Aug 26, 06 6:01 pm EST
quijibo wrote:
although terry the deer hound might count as two dawgs
more like four,
three of whom will be located in his digestive track
quijibo Crooklyn Ninja
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 2028 Location: taintalicious!
Sat Aug 26, 06 6:23 pm EST
ParkAdvocate wrote:
quijibo wrote:
ParkAdvocate wrote:
I am one of 8 children and, over the years, we've had 4 dogs, 6 cats, gerbils, birds, turtles, etc. My mother and 6 of my siblings still have dogs. I love dogs. I don't like irresponsible pet owners. My point is, I don't see off-leash courtesy hours as being good for animals or people. To that end I've done considerable research regarding laws, local government, animal advocacy groups, articles from reputable sources, photographs and put them together on a single weblog:
you wouldn't be that guy that filled a piece of meat with pins and needles
and left it on the street so that a dog would eat it would you?
You are a very sick person. Where in any of my postings would you get the impression that I was into injuring animals? Your comment borders on slander and you should be more careful how you choose your words.
This is just a perverted tactic to deflect the discussions from the real issue.
litigious little egotist ain't you?
you're probably behind the foie gras ban too
pissant offleash dog nazi.
slander this
_________________ I know that there are people who do not love their fellow man, and I hate people like that! -- Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
pitu Fake Buddhist
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 6489 Location: Utopian Park Slope
Sat Aug 26, 06 6:43 pm EST
quijibo wrote:
ParkAdvocate wrote:
quijibo wrote:
ParkAdvocate wrote:
I am one of 8 children and, over the years, we've had 4 dogs, 6 cats, gerbils, birds, turtles, etc. My mother and 6 of my siblings still have dogs. I love dogs. I don't like irresponsible pet owners. My point is, I don't see off-leash courtesy hours as being good for animals or people. To that end I've done considerable research regarding laws, local government, animal advocacy groups, articles from reputable sources, photographs and put them together on a single weblog:
you wouldn't be that guy that filled a piece of meat with pins and needles
and left it on the street so that a dog would eat it would you?
You are a very sick person. Where in any of my postings would you get the impression that I was into injuring animals? Your comment borders on slander and you should be more careful how you choose your words.
This is just a perverted tactic to deflect the discussions from the real issue.
litigious little egotist ain't you?
you're probably behind the foie gras ban too
pissant offleash dog nazi.
slander this
it's all coming together now . . .
Park Advocate might be Terry's daddy. The style of expression is eirily familiar.
Carnivore Brooklyn Snark
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 13566 Location: St Johns Pl and Underhill
Sat Aug 26, 06 8:46 pm EST
pitu wrote:
it's all coming together now . . .
Park Advocate might be Terry's daddy. The style of expression is eirily familiar.
He didn't say it was libel.. just slander.
steve Cylon
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 1263
Sat Aug 26, 06 11:02 pm EST
Carnivore wrote:
pitu wrote:
it's all coming together now . . .
Park Advocate might be Terry's daddy. The style of expression is eirily familiar.
He didn't say it was libel.. just slander.
Slander, dude's not even a registered user, he's not a real person in any legal sense. Shit, that degenerate sex ho don't even like techno!
caaahyoko Carneviento Devotee
Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 1258
Mon Aug 28, 06 10:32 am EST
steve wrote:
Carnivore wrote:
pitu wrote:
it's all coming together now . . .
Park Advocate might be Terry's daddy. The style of expression is eirily familiar.
He didn't say it was libel.. just slander.
Slander, dude's not even a registered user, he's not a real person in any legal sense. Shit, that degenerate sex ho don't even like techno!
I think this has effectively ended the debate.
alafairnadia radical quellist
Joined: 08 Aug 2005 Posts: 8272 Location: not washington ave. btwn sterling & st. johns
Mon Aug 28, 06 10:57 am EST
caaahyoko wrote:
steve wrote:
Carnivore wrote:
pitu wrote:
it's all coming together now . . .
Park Advocate might be Terry's daddy. The style of expression is eirily familiar.
He didn't say it was libel.. just slander.
Slander, dude's not even a registered user, he's not a real person in any legal sense. Shit, that degenerate sex ho don't even like techno!
I think this has effectively ended the debate.
_________________ like a smoked meat with an earthy youth overnote
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 10 Location: Park Slope
Thu Sep 14, 06 4:29 am EST
It seems that dogs off the leash will shit wherever they want, and their owners may not see it to clean up. I've stepped in it while playing Frisbee, weee!
There should be a smaller designated off-leash section of Prospect Park. I'd know not to play there.
I've heard there is a $100 fine for not cleaning up after your dog. If this is true, how is this rule enforced in the park? Does there have to be an eye witness? And will the dog owner really stick around while a cop is summoned? Or does a cop or park ranger have to see the crime being committed? Will they do a DNA test to match the shit to a dog?
I've written to info@prospectpark.org many times to ask about enforcing the rules about cleaning up after dogs in the park. I've even volunteered to be an Undercover Dog Shit Cleanup Enforcer, granted with the power to bust offenders. But no one ever wrote back. No one seems to take it seriously, not even dog owners.
Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 911 Location: South Slope
Thu Sep 14, 06 8:03 am EST
wlevin wrote:
No one seems to take it seriously, not even dog owners.
I take it very seriously, because if there is dog shit to be stepped in, I will manage to step in it. Seriously, I hate people who don't clean up after their dogs. But I do not see a lot of unattended shit in the park; I see a lot more of it on the sidewalks of Park Slope. And -- there are a lot of people who take their dogs to the park who are very vigilant about telling other people to clean up after their dogs. There's a small brigade of busybodies who are just waiting to reprimand other dog owners for something or other. They can be annoying as hell, but they do serve as Undercover Dog Shit Cleanup Enforcers, and that's a good thing.
Drano Meow Wars Veteran
Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 1559
Thu Sep 14, 06 10:34 am EST
Rose wrote:
wlevin wrote:
No one seems to take it seriously, not even dog owners.
I take it very seriously, because if there is dog shit to be stepped in, I will manage to step in it. Seriously, I hate people who don't clean up after their dogs. But I do not see a lot of unattended shit in the park; I see a lot more of it on the sidewalks of Park Slope. And -- there are a lot of people who take their dogs to the park who are very vigilant about telling other people to clean up after their dogs. There's a small brigade of busybodies who are just waiting to reprimand other dog owners for something or other. They can be annoying as hell, but they do serve as Undercover Dog Shit Cleanup Enforcers, and that's a good thing.
I wouldn't say I'm a busybody, but on the rare occasions I see someone leave a steaming pile of dog squeeze on the sidewalk, I'll call them on it. Best response: "Oh, um, yeah...I was just going back to my apartment to get a plastic bag..."
Still, it seems like 95% of dog owners are pretty good abount this stuff, and good thing - the few people who aren't still make things fairly unpleasant.
HaHa -- i guess i am one of those busybodies, both in and out of the park.
why in the park? i know what we have is a privilege, and to get along with everyone else we dog owners have to be diligent about cleaning up (now if only we could convince the weekend BBQers who leave all their leftover food around to do the same. you wanna talk about supporting the rat population, or what?). most people are great about it, and those that aren't ARE quickly bossed around by the busybodies
why outside the park? who the heck wants to step in dog poo, for pete's sake?!? listen, i have two big dogs. that's a lot of poo scooping. it is not exactly my favorite thing to do. but i do it every single time because it's a matter of respecting the neighborhood i live in. plain and simple.
my best way to police others? well, i should own stock in plastic bags cuz i almost always have them on me (even at times when i don't even have the dogs with me -- it's embarrassing when i stop to think about it). in or out, when i see someone walk away from the poo i just run up to them, thrust the bag in their hands and say smilingly, "yeah, sometimes i forget to bring one too." then i just stand there and make small talk till they scoop the poop. i tell ya, it hasn't backfired on me yet (knock on wood). they are usually so flustered that this friendly stranger is on top of them that they do what they're supposed to and clean up. whether i believe the excuse or not is irrelevant. i just smile no matter what -- maybe they think i'm derranged _________________ Get your paws off my canned chicken
Carnivore Brooklyn Snark
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 13566 Location: St Johns Pl and Underhill
Thu Sep 14, 06 6:43 pm EST
shishkab wrote:
my best way to police others? well, i should own stock in plastic bags cuz i almost always have them on me (even at times when i don't even have the dogs with me -- it's embarrassing when i stop to think about it). in or out, when i see someone walk away from the poo i just run up to them, thrust the bag in their hands and say smilingly, "yeah, sometimes i forget to bring one too." then i just stand there and make small talk till they scoop the poop. i tell ya, it hasn't backfired on me yet (knock on wood). they are usually so flustered that this friendly stranger is on top of them that they do what they're supposed to and clean up. whether i believe the excuse or not is irrelevant. i just smile no matter what -- maybe they think i'm derranged
And if they're totally intransigent, you could use the bag like a glove to pick the shit up and throw it at them...
Not that I would ever do such a thing.
quijibo Crooklyn Ninja
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 2028 Location: taintalicious!
Fri Sep 15, 06 12:05 am EST
wlevin wrote:
It seems that dogs off the leash will shit wherever they want, and their owners may not see it to clean up. I've stepped in it while playing Frisbee, weee!
i doubt you'll find anyone on this board who'll defend dog owners
who don't pick up after their dog. we're a self policing lot
if you see a dog owner who doesn't pick up after their dog
feel more than free to mention that their dog has pooped.
right over there. by the tree. no. not that tree. the other one. thank you
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