[dakotas way]

OK. So it's another safety in the neighborhood question. Sorry.

My daughter is moving to the area, and will be across from the Projects near Bushwick Ave and Moore St.

Anyone know the area?

Thanks.

[bbc]

I lived at Morgan and Seigel for 4 years, which is where your daughter would get off the subway to walk home.

Simply put, this is a dangerous area and probably a bad place to live if your daughter is not extremely street savvy, large, or armed. The people in the Bushwick houses refer to the Loftwick residents as ATM's - as in, 'I'm gonna go hit an ATM for some cash' and I know of at least two rapes on that stretch of Bushwick in the last two years. There is another post on this forum whose author was mugged on Seigel and Bogart, which is a very well-lit and well-trafficked area.

Cheap rents lure many people without the scruples to handle the neighborhood. Do you live in an urban area? Did your daughter grow up with street knowledge'. Did she go to school in a city? Has she done any foreign traveling - particularly backpacking - solo, and I mean ALONE, not with a boyfriend or group? These are the skills that would help with awareness in the area.

Since you say she is moving, I will assume it's a done deal. Hints: Take the Ipod off before you leave the train. Do not talk on the phone on the walk home. Have pepper spray in your bag, if not in your hand. And try not to walk home alone at all.

Is she living with people she knows, or is she walking into a strange situation?

Bushwick Avenue is BAD, especially right across from the Bushwick Houses.

You literally can't be too careful over there, the neighborhood has many great attributes, unfortunately, in particular in the summer, these attributes tend to combine to make people feel safer than they should feel, and then bad things happen. Especially in the summer.

[bbc]

My girlfriend wants me to say that you're sweet for trying to make sure your daughter is safe, and she hopes that I haven't ruined her summer rental with my doom and gloom. Just be aware that the neighborhood - in particular Bushwick Ave - requires a high level of awareness. I lived there for years and loved it and mostly felt safe, but I am 6'3" and weigh 225 lbs. It is a very fun, cool area, you just can't pretend it's not what it is, which is a bunch of recent college grads living tantalizingly close to a large public housing project.

Good luck.

[snowboarding]

BBC is right on all counts. I try not to walk alone at night and to generally just be aware of my surroundings. I hope she has come to visit the neighborhood before making any decisions. Also, I've learned from my own mistakes that you can never let your guard down no matter where you are in the city. Carry less (girls sometimes have way too much crap with them gym bags, shopping bags etx) and keep a low key profile.

[Lo Kee]

Lived near there for three years. Nothing ever happened to me but my girlfriend was the victim of an attempted "push in" robbery or perhaps rape (when you are unlocking your door and assailant comes up behind you and attempts to push you into the innner hallway of the residence). She screamed, i was inside and came running and the guy took off.

Another time her and a male friend were wlaking home and a group of about 5 minors tried to strong arm rob them (no weapons displayed, physical force only). Again, she screamed, ran and the male friend resited and the kids took off.

And she grew up in Queens and lived her whole likfe in the Boroughs.

No one ever attempted anything on me. I am male, six foot and somewhat built.

Not a good place for a female.

Sorry if that ruins your day but you should know.
_________________
giggity giggity

[dakotas way]

OH MY GOD!
She already signed the lease and is moving in with a girl from Craig's list. She's an attractive young woman and street savvy,having lived in Brooklyn 2 years so far. One in Crown Heights above Franklin Place and in Ft. Greene which she loves and is way priced out of on a waitress's salary.
Her first year of college was in Manhattan.

What do I do now???

Thank you all so very much for this information.

[dakotas way]

And it now turns out she'll be living near the cornor of Moore and Bushwick. She says she'll be getting off at the Montrose stop.

Is this the same area as you all mentioned above?

Was it wrong to call and tell her what the report of the area was? I thought she should know.

[Lo Kee]

I lived at Bushwick Ave and Arion Place. Closer to the JMZ line (but not that far from the intersection you reference).
_________________
giggity giggity

[Lo Kee]

[rtraindweller]

[snowboarding]

I would probably get off at the morgan ave stop (there's an exit on bogart st) and walk down bogart to moore. That is basically the way I walk home. Maybe we can meet and be walking buddies

What do you guys think? Thats probably better than walking down bushwick ave?

If she is a waitress and works late hours, I would always take a car home. When I am out late in the city sometimes I will take the subway to the first stop in BK (bedford ave) and catch a cab there. Then at least its only an $8 cab vs a $20 cab ride..

[dakotas way]

I can't thank you enough for your responses. You guys are all great.
And I did have to tell her what I heard. Absolutely. I couldn't have lived with myself if I didn't.

She says she did walk there at night and thought she'd be OK.

If only this crappy economy didn't hit everyone so hard, she would have had more money to use towards rent.

She works early day shifts except for one night, so hopefully she'll take a cab home then.

And Snowboarding, that was extremely kind to offer to be walking buddies with her. You will all never know how much I appreciate your input. She did read (after much protestation) the first posts, so she acknowledged there may be more to the neighborhood challenges then she thought.

Thank you all once again and I wish I could help you if you ever needed it.

[bbc]

Avoid that long walk down Bushwick Avenue. Her best bet is to do as snowboarding has suggested and get off at Morgan, where there are several stores and restaurants, and then walk down Moore to her place. The stretch of Bushwick from McKibbin to Flushing is not a nice place to be.

[snowboarding]

Absolutely.. feel free to shoot me a private message and we can exchange emails. I am too a young girl and I have quite a few girlfriends in the neighborhood and its always nice to meet up with someone and walk home. My bf and I are always talking about the neighborhood and its many dynamics, and how to stay safe, etc. and it really just boils down to being smart and following your instinct, if you feel uncomfortable walk in to the grocery store or pizza place, switch sides of the street.

I mean... I had a friend just get her purse snatched on 33rd and 5th ave in Manhattan. People say it all the time and it's true.. it can happen anywhere you live.

[caaahyoko]

[dakotas way]

Thanks Snowboarding. I'll pm you and talk to my daughter about contacting you as well with your kind offer. And my daughter says the same thing about stuff can happen anywhere. She's leaving a nice area of Ft. Greene and had the shooting outside the cake store last October at 2PM, where the kid was ambushed and chased into to a beauty parlor and excuted, where the shooters shot 4 other people (including a policewoman getting her hair done) with total disregard. It was literally 50 ft from her front door.

And caaahyoko, she waitresses in Chelsea (I think) so she has to take the trains. But that was a good idea about using the bike.

Thanks

[SusanKo]

Hello: I work for a Brooklyn organization and spend a lot of time moving around various neighborhoods. There is no way on earth that I would allow my daughter to move there. period.

[dakotas way]

SusanKo, I totally hear what you're saying. But she's a 25 year old woman living on her own. I can't tell her she can't live there.

I think it's a terrible idea, myself.

I wish I could squash this whole move because I'm afraid for her safety.

[jimmylegs]

i live in a much worse part of the neighborhood, and have never had any real trouble. your daughter is 25 and has a couple years experience in brooklyn, so my only question is: have you and your daughter actually been down to this area? my only complaint with it is that it's kinda ugly. from the sound of it, her place is on the edge of Morgantown, which is so full of clueless kids the muggers will never make it to her.

what was her experience like in crown hts? that neighborhood doesn't have the best rep either and yet she survived there right?

[dakotas way]

She lived in Crown Heights for a year and left right before Franklin Place opened (her building was right in front of it.) She was OK there, but knew you had to keep you wits about you, especially at night. At that time she was coming home late at night from a different job. She was relieved when she moved to Ft Greene cause it had a different feel to the whole area, because it wasn't as challenging. She said the dealers on her cornor in Crown Heights kept an eye out for the girls (they're such nice guys....) She also knew they weren't really. She did have someone shot through the chest right outside their window one night right before they were about to go out for the evening.

Anyhow, she said she walked the area at night in Bushwick and felt OK about it. That she definitely wouldn't come home late after drinking too much and not be aware of her surroundings. That's all well and good. But it's not always what she does that counts. It's also the bad guys out there with nothing more to do than wait for the right opportunity to do something. That's what worries us the most. And once something happens, there's no taking it back.

And Jimmylegs, I really appreciate your reassurance that she'll be alright. As a parent of an adult, it's really difficult to see them do things that can put them at real risk and not be able to do anything about it. We're going in this weekend so I guess we'll see for ourselves.

She's an actress and I'm just hoping she is accepted to an apprentice theatre program out of state for the summer so she doesn't have to field her way through the kids looking for adventure. Cause kids don't have common sense and sometimes act on things just to make a point to others without any regard to the person they are affecting. They can't rob her because she is so poor she doesn't have any money or anything to take. Otherwise she would have stayed in Ft Greene.
Thanks once again for your reassurance.

[snowboarding]

[quote="SusanKo"]Hello: I work for a Brooklyn organization and spend a lot of time moving around various neighborhoods. There is no way on earth that I would allow my daughter to move there. period.[/quote]

Sorry, but that doesn't exactly help. I'm sure everyone wishes they could afford a 2bedroom in bk heights or the west village. But we can't, so we are smart, careful and try to enjoy our surroundings and do the best we can for the neighborhood we do live in.

Dakotas- enjoy the weekend here, make sure you go to Roberta's on Moore st, amazing pizza and a great brunch!

[dakotas way]

Thanks snowboarding. You're the best!

[sandcastler]

Also check out La Marqueta!

http://www.gowanuslounge.com/2009/01/29/excel.....sburgs-la-marqueta-saved/

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/31/.....-a-brooklyn-market-alive/

[dakotas way]

OK. I've resigned myself to this.
We went out and bought her some pepper spray for her key chain.


We're hoping she stays safe and enjoys the neighborhood. Turns out she's got a number of friends in Bushwick, and some close by.

My fingers are crossed and all of your good advice has been passed on with great appreciation.

[rtraindweller]

[MAT]

Just remember, bad things happen to people no matter where you live. I had a friend who had a brick thrown at him in Cobble Hill. Another friend got smashed over the head in Park Slope. Break ins in Prospect Heights. It's not isolated to Bushwick, and then isolated to the few blocks around the projects!

But yes, living across from the Projects is far from ideal. As everyone says, keep your wits about you and don't be stupid. (as in: walk home alone late at night, wear your ipod walking alone, you know, the usual stuff!) and you will be fine.

[snowboarding]

Yikes.. did you guys see how bad the brownstoner took this forum and ran with it. I'm sure none of them have ever left cranberry st in bk heights anyway..

http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archiv.....hwick_projec.php#comments

[caaahyoko]

oy, those brownstoner people. The last people I'd want to live near.

[dakotas way]

We helped our daughter move some things into her apartment on Saturday night, so we got to see the place. The apartment itself has been totally renovated, so it's very nice. The immediate area was lit well enough. Mostly only saw older couples and families out. No kids, for some reason. Maybe the guys were at a Boy Scout meeting (just kidding.) There were quite a few hipster types around as well by her building and going in and out, whatever that means. So she's in and we'll hope all play nice in the area.

And I did go on the Brownstoner after Caseopele told me when I met her the other night that they picked up on the thread. Had to go on and explain the situation since they all thought I should pay for her to move elsewhere and was subsidizing her life in Brooklyn. We're tapped out after paying for the second of our kids in college anyway. I did think it not prudent that they posted a satellite view of her area. I mean.... really. I asked them to take it down but haven't received a response and it's still there.

Anyhow, I passed on your great suggestions on what stops to get off of and the suggestions for Roberta's and La Marqueta and she says she's going to check them out.

Thanks for being kind to a Mom not from Brooklyn. I have to say that in the two years she's lived there, I've learned so much about Brooklyn and the people (my grandmother grew up in Brooklyn Heights in the early 1900's and I have a picture of her in fields by a beautiful victorian house. So maybe I'm a Brooklynite several times removed.)
Anyway, you're all wonderful people. Go enjoy this fantastic spring day with my thanks!

[copilot7777]

I feel extremely bad for all the females who have to go through this on a daily basis but.....why do you live close to these crappy hoods? Anyone who lives in the city more that a month knows the ugly truth - stay away from minorities and their neighborhoods, right? You don't have to be filthy rich to be able to afford a decent area to live in, period!
I think many people are attracted to these so-called "trendy" areas of Brooklyn because of "trendiness", not realizing that there's nothing trendy about them after 9pm, just a bunch of old dilapidated warehouses (Brooklyn Heights and other areas in downtown Brooklyn) with a bunch of potheads and ghetto thugs running around. Why do you complain? Have you ever tried to look beyond your tribal boundaries and settle down somewhere else? let's say around Ocean Parkway? We have some blacks here too - they literally ran away from their hoods because they were unable to deal with constant stress and fears, especially people with young kids and young girls in particular. Personally i don't think this whole "prospect slope-heights-brooklyn heights" mania is worth your nerves. Move out!Be aware and don't trust the liberal media.

I also have a feeling that they don't report the race of the attackers on purpose. Why? I don't know(lol), Maybe because people who write these stories are in cahoots with the attackers? Or, perhaps, they don't wanna start the whole "racial tensions" thing? We don't really know...
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Ok watch this:

"Police are searching for a man who attacked and raped a Bay Ridge woman on Wednesday morning as she was taking out her garbage near Fort Hamilton Parkway.

The suspect was waiting in an apartment building’s basement for his victim, cops said. When the woman, 39, went to her basement at around 8:30 am, the man attacked her, stabbed her in the head with a screwdriver, and raped her.
“She was really hysterical,” a neighbor told WCBS TV. “She said she went [to the basement] and they attacked her and hit her over the head.

“A lot of people think Bay Ridge is safe, but you’re not safe anywhere you go,” the neighbor added.

Cops said the suspect fled just after 9 am. Witnesses said he is 6-foot and about 180 pounds, and is in his 30s.



Cops are asking anyone with information to call Crime Stoppers at (800) 577-TIPS or text tips to 274637 (CRIMES), and enter “TIP577.”

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/31/37/31_37_sp_br_rape.html
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So how do you like the description? Was the human filth WHITE? or Black? or HISPANIC? No word on that............Good luck on catching him

Hold on,I think i got it - i think he was a Mormon or a Jehova Witness!
HAHAHAaaA!
_________________
NATIONALIZE OUR OIL INDUSTRY
Be Proud Of Your Culture
Geert Wilders is a Prophet

[rtraindweller]

Well, that was... special? Thanks for uhmmm, posting i guess?
_________________
"the radio makes hideous sounds"
-bob dylan

[Carnivore]

Someone's off his meds.

[rtraindweller]

[copilot7777]

Stop complaining then and enjoy the "diversity" if you know what i mean,lol! Tell them how you love the multicultural world, let's see if it stops them from robbing or raping you. I know, it did not work for Nicole duFresne
_________________
NATIONALIZE OUR OIL INDUSTRY
Be Proud Of Your Culture
Geert Wilders is a Prophet

[copilot7777]

[copilot7777]

[rtraindweller]

ok i'll get right on that law school application. can you write a recommendation for me? that'd be the swellest thing ever.
_________________
"the radio makes hideous sounds"
-bob dylan

[dakotas way]

To answer copilot 7777's question as to why my daughter moved to the neighborhood she did... she has no money. And, in fact, 2 weeks after she moved was laid off and REALLY has no money for anything now.
She does like the diversity of neighborhoods. And one of the main challenges she had finding a place was because she has a cat that she wouldn't give up for the world.
So that made finding somewhere else more difficult because she kept running into allergy issues with prospective roommates.

And the thought of all the kids out of school for the summer and hanging out in the projects nearby late at night does concern me. But she's a grown woman who makes her own choices. Given her druthers, she would have loved to have stayed in Ft.Greene, but was priced out of it. Either she lived there and had no money for student loans, transportation or food, for that matter. Or she moved and could only hope for the best.

Sometimes hoping for the best is all you can do.

[rtraindweller]

Don't mind copilot, they're just scared of their own shadow.
_________________
"the radio makes hideous sounds"
-bob dylan

[copilot7777]

[copilot7777]

[copilot7777]

[dakotas way]

To rtraindweller: Who's scared of their own shadow? Are you talking about us or copilot7777??

And to copilot7777, thanks for the blessing. We're struggling though putting out second child through college. And with looming layoffs at my husbands work next month, it's pretty unsettling. He's made it though 3 layoffs, but the word is that they'll be firing 400 people from his building alone. And if that happens we're in deep trouble, like the rest of the country.

[copilot7777]

[dakotas way]

I have no idea why my daughter decided on this area other than she was down to the wire and had only a few days left to find somewhere to live.
And I totally agree that she could have looked in areas that were not as challenging to live in. But it was, again, her choice.

And my husband is in systems security and works in Jersey. I think there are 1500 people in his building, so they'd be cutting 30+% of the staff at that location. And even his bosses are sweating it out cause you never know how they'll choose who gets the ax.

What a world, what a world..........