Doesn't anyone drink their coffee black anymore? (Even my sweet, Southern belle mama doesn't need to put milk or sugar in her coffee.)
(I support the use of non-dairy milk and non-processed sugar. But, I'm not surprised that the majority of future customers will request/expect dairy options.)
Whatchuwant Parliament Menthol Funkadelic
Joined: 06 Feb 2007 Posts: 2581 Location: Eastern Pkwy and FA Rock
Tue Sep 15, 09 10:24 am EST
SPLENDA! _________________ "...you can choose the rain....but I choose the sun..." - N. Costa
IDemandASafeNabe Newbie
Joined: 01 Aug 2009 Posts: 7
Tue Sep 15, 09 11:01 am EST
Carnivore wrote:
Architecture Biscuit wrote:
sweet tea wrote:
good luck, but you lost me right here:
Breukelen Coffee House wrote:
Milk will not be available nor conventional sugar.
i hope you'll reconsider. it's great that you'll offer other options, but i suspect i am not the only customer who would feel unpleasantly shocked by this discovery after buying my coffee.
Yeah, I'm with Sweet Tea on this one.
Why would you not carry milk or sugar?
Me too. I need real milk for my coffee. Maybe get organic milk? Soy, hazelnut, hemp, almond milk or whatever are just not acceptable substitutes any more than Cremora is. I love Stumptown, and I think it's great that you're providing vegan options, but you're seriously limiting your clientele in that location if you don't provide real milk for the non-vegans.
Yup! Me too. Milk please.
Carnivore Brooklyn Snark
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 13566 Location: St Johns Pl and Underhill
Tue Sep 15, 09 12:06 pm EST
debya wrote:
Doesn't anyone drink their coffee black anymore? (Even my sweet, Southern belle mama doesn't need to put milk or sugar in her coffee.)
(I support the use of non-dairy milk and non-processed sugar. But, I'm not surprised that the majority of future customers will request/expect dairy options.)
It's kind of like opening a french fry place and announcing you're not going to serve ketchup. Sure, plenty of people like fries with other condiments, or with none at all, but you're going to lose a bunch of customers.
whynot_31 Former Lurker
Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 5681 Location: Prospect Heights
Tue Sep 15, 09 12:08 pm EST
Ditto.
...kinda like Whole Foods refuses to sell its largely female customer base Diet Coke.
can't they give folks what they want?
Asil tgif
Joined: 15 Jul 2006 Posts: 123 Location: St. Johns & Washington
Tue Sep 15, 09 12:34 pm EST
It's a niche market, and some folks will want it. Why shouldn't they give it a try? They may find it's not the best business plan and have to start serving milk, but it sounds like they have a specific idea in mind of what they want the shop to be. So again, why not? There are more and more places in the nabe to get coffee, so if you must have milk there are other places to go.
I've left coffeeshops many times with black coffee (which is not so bad!) because I don't do dairy and they didn't have soy. So I'm thrilled to have a choice of various non-dairy milks.
sweet tea Cooler Ham
Joined: 26 Feb 2006 Posts: 4960 Location: the jewish
Tue Sep 15, 09 1:00 pm EST
Asil wrote:
There are more and more places in the nabe to get coffee, so if you must have milk there are other places to go.
agreed, and i'll certainly do so. it just seems like a ridiculous thing to lose customers over. _________________ Bumping ancient threads with bot-like bullshit
debya Newbie
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 Posts: 41
Tue Sep 15, 09 1:03 pm EST
sweet tea wrote:
Asil wrote:
There are more and more places in the nabe to get coffee, so if you must have milk there are other places to go.
agreed, and i'll certainly do so. it just seems like a ridiculous thing to lose customers over.
Well, it's not ridiculous depending on their motivation for not offering dairy milk. Sure, it's not easy to run a coffee house without dairy milk, but my friend in Portland is able to do it. Could her vegan coffee/bakery shop also survive in Crown Heights? Maaaybe.
sweet tea Cooler Ham
Joined: 26 Feb 2006 Posts: 4960 Location: the jewish
Tue Sep 15, 09 1:08 pm EST
well, regardless, i'm grateful for the warning.
fwiw, my "good luck" is genuine -- i'd rather see a thriving business on franklin that doesn't cater to me than another empty storefront. _________________ Bumping ancient threads with bot-like bullshit
ntfool Regular
Joined: 19 Sep 2008 Posts: 184 Location: St. Francis Pl. - Crow Hill/Crown Heights
Tue Sep 15, 09 2:13 pm EST
sweet tea wrote:
Asil wrote:
There are more and more places in the nabe to get coffee, so if you must have milk there are other places to go.
agreed, and i'll certainly do so. it just seems like a ridiculous thing to lose customers over.
Yup. I'm going to Tony's. _________________ If you're happy, you're not paying attention.
spurn Productions, Inc.
prospectheightsyo Pee Heights Brigade
Joined: 19 Aug 2009 Posts: 102
Tue Sep 15, 09 4:52 pm EST
I really hope you do open at 7am! _________________ No Excuses.
catwalkertexasranger Local
Joined: 30 Jun 2009 Posts: 284
Tue Sep 15, 09 10:18 pm EST
I am betting that milk will be available within the first hour or the first 10 customers through the door which ever comes first. CH loves milk. Nobody makes a stand at the cash register
Isa Crabby Native
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 Posts: 526 Location: St Johns Plizizace
Wed Sep 16, 09 12:22 am EST
Wow, a vegan coffee shop on Franklin ave! So so cool. It may just make me move back to Brooklyn. Stick to your guns on the non-dairy milks, you'll have a clientele. There are some really wonderful non-dairy creamers out there, too. Try Wildwood soy creamer and So Delicious coconut milk creamer. They're both rich and delicious.
Carnivore Brooklyn Snark
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 13566 Location: St Johns Pl and Underhill
Wed Sep 16, 09 8:20 am EST
Isa wrote:
Wow, a vegan coffee shop on Franklin ave! So so cool. It may just make me move back to Brooklyn. Stick to your guns on the non-dairy milks, you'll have a clientele. There are some really wonderful non-dairy creamers out there, too. Try Wildwood soy creamer and So Delicious coconut milk creamer. They're both rich and delicious.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that they not carry all of the non-dairy milks. Just that they would have a much wider customer base if they included a dairy option. You know, kind of like how non-vegetarian restaurants have vegetarian options so that they can have vegetarian customers too. For a large segment of the population (perhaps a majority, although I'm not sure), having milk is integral to the experience of enjoying the primary product being sold here (coffee), and those people will not even consider going to a place that doesn't have milk. I don't understand why someone would turn away all those customers. I'm curious if the owners have done any kind of market research about whether they'll have an adequate customer base to even cover their overhead before committing to this concept.
Wow, a vegan coffee shop on Franklin ave! So so cool. It may just make me move back to Brooklyn. Stick to your guns on the non-dairy milks, you'll have a clientele. There are some really wonderful non-dairy creamers out there, too. Try Wildwood soy creamer and So Delicious coconut milk creamer. They're both rich and delicious.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that they not carry all of the non-dairy milks. Just that they would have a much wider customer base if they included a dairy option. You know, kind of like how non-vegetarian restaurants have vegetarian options so that they can have vegetarian customers too. For a large segment of the population (perhaps a majority, although I'm not sure), having milk is integral to the experience of enjoying the primary product being sold here (coffee), and those people will not even consider going to a place that doesn't have milk. I don't understand why someone would turn away all those customers. I'm curious if the owners have done any kind of market research about whether they'll have an adequate customer base to even cover their overhead before committing to this concept.
In addition to this, it seems odd to me that a place that appears to be quite eco-conscious would commit to a concept that is certain to drive a lot of potential to customers to less eco-friendly competitors.
xlizellx Ninja
Joined: 10 Jul 2008 Posts: 807 Location: Park Place
Wed Sep 16, 09 6:30 pm EST
but if they are ethically opposed to using dairy or non-organic beans and other items, why make them go against their beliefs?
i don't think they *should* carry these other items, but i worry that there isn't a market to keep them alive. my assumption is that these alternatives for sweeteners and creams cost more than traditional sugar and 2% milk or whatnot - meaning the cost of their product will go up. to some, it is totally worth it. but will it be to enough people? i hope this location will keep them alive.
if someone is vegan, why would they run a store that endorses an opposing/contradictory view point?
good luck to both coffee shops!
Carnivore Brooklyn Snark
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 13566 Location: St Johns Pl and Underhill
Wed Sep 16, 09 6:43 pm EST
xlizellx wrote:
but if they are ethically opposed to using dairy or non-organic beans and other items, why make them go against their beliefs?
i don't think they *should* carry these other items, but i worry that there isn't a market to keep them alive. my assumption is that these alternatives for sweeteners and creams cost more than traditional sugar and 2% milk or whatnot - meaning the cost of their product will go up. to some, it is totally worth it. but will it be to enough people? i hope this location will keep them alive.
if someone is vegan, why would they run a store that endorses an opposing/contradictory view point?
good luck to both coffee shops!
Yeah, but it just seems like a coffee shop is a bad choice of things to open if you're that committed to non-dairy, since milk is so much a part of how many people enjoy coffee. Kind of like a vegan rib shack. Sure it will appeal to vegans, but it's going to be really tough to succeed as a business without going after other customers too. Maybe a bakery would have been better, which could have drawn a lot of people who aren't vegan. How many vegans are within walking distance of the new location? Even if they all go every day, will it be enough to support the business?
I wish them the best of luck, but I think they should think hard about these questions before they open, since it's hard to get someone to come back to a place if they didn't find what they were looking for the first time.
but if they are ethically opposed to using dairy or non-organic beans and other items, why make them go against their beliefs?
I can understand that regarding milk, but sugar? It's not like you can't buy all-natural, organic, carbon-neutral sugar. But yeah, if they are simply totally opposed to milk on ethical grounds then I can respect their decision and wish them luck; however, I will be going somewhere else.
sterling2000 CIO, Outdated Theatrics, Inc.
Joined: 22 Jun 2005 Posts: 594 Location: The intersection of Blight Street and Gentrification Avenue.
Thu Sep 17, 09 10:17 pm EST
I like my coffee like my women: hot and bitter.
No extras needed.... _________________ "The jawbone of an ass is just as dangerous a weapon today as in Sampson's time."
--- Richard Nixon
jeffrey blimp collector
Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 3444 Location: Prospect Lefferts Gardens
Thu Sep 17, 09 11:11 pm EST
And your beers stooped to perfection _________________ i extend my battery life by averting extreme injustice and inherent evil
Whatchuwant Parliament Menthol Funkadelic
Joined: 06 Feb 2007 Posts: 2581 Location: Eastern Pkwy and FA Rock
Fri Sep 18, 09 10:18 am EST
Carnivore wrote:
How many vegans are within walking distance of the new location? Even if they all go every day, will it be enough to support the business?
FWIW- there are many Halal practicing (is that correct?) people in the nabe- many Muslims and Rastafarians are vegan. _________________ "...you can choose the rain....but I choose the sun..." - N. Costa
Asil tgif
Joined: 15 Jul 2006 Posts: 123 Location: St. Johns & Washington
Fri Sep 18, 09 10:39 am EST
You're probably thinking of Ital, which is a Rastafarian dietary practice that's often vegetarian or vegan. The Muslim Halal dietary laws do allow eating some kinds of meat as long as the animal is slaughtered in a specific way. I'm not sure where it stands on dairy. Halal is similar to Kosher in many ways, and Halal food needs to be prepared and certified as such, so this is likely not a customer base for the new coffeeshop. There are a number of Ital places on Nostrand that have been there for many years, so there is definitely a market for vegan food in the neighborhood.
Carnivore Brooklyn Snark
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 13566 Location: St Johns Pl and Underhill
Fri Sep 18, 09 10:57 am EST
Yeah, halal certification would improve the customer base.
I guess only time will tell. We should revisit this thread in a year or two.
Capt. Planet Life is for the living, so let's get it on!
Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 616 Location: Park Place NY/Nostrand
Fri Sep 18, 09 4:19 pm EST
Hey, I'm OK with organic but what about Fair Trade? Gorilla Coffee on Fifth Avenue and Park Place is both organic and FT. Typically as I understand it, organic coffee is usually shade grown, meaning that no rain forest is destroyed to monocrop the coffee. The coffee is grown in the shade under an existing canopy of trees, hence lower production but fewer chemical inputs required. Shade grown coffee is typcically grown by small farmers who use the income to supplement their own food crops. If they are paid a fair price for the coffee, they can actually feed their families. Otherwise they end up selling to a "coffee coyote" who gives them a price which varies a lot depending on the market conditions. Some times the price can be so low the farmers lose money on each sale.
Fair Trade companies such as Equal Exchange guarantee that their coffee is bought from farmer cooperatives who are paid a minimum price set to ensure that the farmer can make a little profit.
Find our more about fair trade at:
http://www.equalexchange.coop/what-is-fair-trade
I think maybe if some people on here give it a shot you might find something like hazelnut milk adds something wonderfully extra to coffee that dairy milk does not - so don't knock it til you try it!
Carnivore Brooklyn Snark
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 13566 Location: St Johns Pl and Underhill
Sat Sep 19, 09 1:27 pm EST
saram wrote:
I think maybe if some people on here give it a shot you might find something like hazelnut milk adds something wonderfully extra to coffee that dairy milk does not - so don't knock it til you try it!
I (and I think many people are similar) am very specific about how I like my coffee. I like it with milk, no sugar. No half and half, no skim, no non-dairy creamer, no soy milk and no nut milk. It just doesn't taste right. I also don't want hazelnut syrup, vanilla, maple, honey or any other crap in it. I just want coffee brewed strong and dark with milk. But I'm sure there are people who prefer the nut milk thing, and that's fine. I hope there are enough of them that this new business will thrive.
IDemandASafeNabe Newbie
Joined: 01 Aug 2009 Posts: 7
Sat Sep 19, 09 10:30 pm EST
Carnivore wrote:
saram wrote:
I think maybe if some people on here give it a shot you might find something like hazelnut milk adds something wonderfully extra to coffee that dairy milk does not - so don't knock it til you try it!
I (and I think many people are similar) am very specific about how I like my coffee. I like it with milk, no sugar. No half and half, no skim, no non-dairy creamer, no soy milk and no nut milk. It just doesn't taste right. I also don't want hazelnut syrup, vanilla, maple, honey or any other crap in it. I just want coffee brewed strong and dark with milk. But I'm sure there are people who prefer the nut milk thing, and that's fine. I hope there are enough of them that this new business will thrive.
I like my coffee regular with milk and sugar BUT what the heck I'm absolutely going to try coffee from Breukelen and support them all the way!
ncsuemme Newbie
Joined: 22 Sep 2009 Posts: 9 Location: clinton hill, bklyn
Tue Sep 22, 09 11:39 am EST
I wish this place lots of luck, seriously. I live north on Franklin Ave and wouldn't mind walking down that way for a good coffee, but I'm not sure about the nut milks. I do hope to see them succeed, but I definitely need my milk.
IF the prices were low enough to take a risk in ordering something, I'd definitely check it out. But if it's a $5 latte made of hazelnut milk and I'm not sure if I'll like it? Not so sure if I'd try it.
But like others say, I'd much rather see this place succeed than an empty store or another salon, etc. _________________ emily
spnder Regular
Joined: 15 May 2009 Posts: 90
Tue Sep 22, 09 2:08 pm EST
Overpriced coffee with nutmilk? There sure is a lot of conjecture going on.
Considering we don't even have one coffee shop on FA yet, much less two, why don't we just wait for them to open up and then we can start giving them our constructive criticism.
-S
catwalkertexasranger Local
Joined: 30 Jun 2009 Posts: 284
Tue Sep 22, 09 7:48 pm EST
I thought I could hear Pavlov ringing a bell a few months back about Briston's and Lilly and Fig and now some FS thinks there are no coffee shops on FA!?! It is all about the process, whoever makes good quick coffee drinks with reasonable price will have customers. When the web has spoken some of us still have to approve the place with our wallets.If these places have those pre packed mini donuts and what looks like French pastry made months ago they will be the next to be overstate and under deliver. People like fresh stuff, bread, donuts,pie whatever fresh. You can be as chemical or organic as you want but fresh is key. The Lilly and Fig wind seems to have blown. Nice people ,nice shop but three blocks away from the train for me. The idea of a big sit down crowd for anything other than alcohol in the hood has eluded all places so far. To think Dunkin was almost under until some brainiac saw goods that people wanted without the Starbucks pretense,Now they can't build them fast enough and donuts are a small portion of the food they profit from. It is hard to believe that people want more 25 cent bags of chips but I also don't think 5+ dollar lattes are going to fly out the door.
prospectheightsyo Pee Heights Brigade
Joined: 19 Aug 2009 Posts: 102
Wed Sep 23, 09 4:54 pm EST
bristens eatery offers coffee on franklin ave. havent tried it though _________________ No Excuses.
spnder Regular
Joined: 15 May 2009 Posts: 90
Wed Sep 23, 09 5:05 pm EST
prospectheightsyo wrote:
bristens eatery offers coffee on franklin ave. havent tried it though
Many places offer coffee. None of them are coffee shops. Bristen's is a fine restaurant, but it doesn't open early and is closed on Mondays...
tonyfisher Newbie
Joined: 11 Mar 2009 Posts: 26
Wed Sep 23, 09 11:16 pm EST
WOW OVER 6000 VIEWS. Hey everyone, just want to give everyone a "little" update. Before anything i would like to thank all the people coming in and expressing their support for the coffee shop. We got set back a bit because of custom refrigs are taking a bit longer to make than we had hoped. We are still on target for an oct 5 opening date. If the date get pushed back i will post it. We will not be in business to turn people away. We will feature all sorts of coffee. We will have a house blend along with other blends such as rainforest, kenya, ethiopian, fair trade, south and central american, yemen, and yes organic too. We will offer organic milk, soy milk, half and half, heavy cream, whipped cream, and even regular milk. For people that like sugar, there will be sugar. If you , like splenda, equal, sweet-n-low, truvia, organic sugar, raw sugar, fair trade, or even no sugar you are welcome too. It might be a little bit premature to post the menu and other info online right now, but once the cafe is open I will.
Well I've refrained from posting for quite awhile, and while I am skeptical, I must give Tony Fisher his due respect. The name Pulp and Bean for a coffee shop is great! And I love your tweets, keep em up and good luck.
tonyfisher Newbie
Joined: 11 Mar 2009 Posts: 26
Wed Sep 23, 09 11:59 pm EST
We will also be doing a " soft opening" in the near future. I also am VERY interested in getting feedback right away. For this reason, I will offer members of the community to come in and sample our coffee and juices and get to know the staff. This will be done rsvp via www.twitter.com/pulpandbean
catwalkertexasranger Local
Joined: 30 Jun 2009 Posts: 284
Thu Sep 24, 09 5:43 am EST
After seeing Tony Fish in the newspaper you would think Chippendales Coffee would have been a better name. Tony you look like Lady Gaga the barista, keep up the good workouts!
We will feature all sorts of coffee. We will have a house blend along with other blends such as rainforest, kenya, ethiopian, fair trade, south and central american, yemen, and yes organic too. We will offer organic milk, soy milk, half and half, heavy cream, whipped cream, and even regular milk. For people that like sugar, there will be sugar. If you , like splenda, equal, sweet-n-low, truvia, organic sugar, raw sugar, fair trade, or even no sugar you are welcome too. It might be a little bit premature to post the menu and other info online right now, but once the cafe is open I will.
This sounds good.
Breukelen Coffee House Newbie
Joined: 28 Aug 2009 Posts: 12 Location: 764A Franklin Avenue
Sat Sep 26, 09 11:40 pm EST
Hi everyone,
Thank you all for your feedback!
We are happy and excited to announce that our grand opening will be Saturday, 3rd October! There will be music and dancing throughout the day and into the evening as we celebrate the fruition of our first shop!
We can't wait to meet all of our new neighbors!
You've taken the time to reply to our posts and we've taken the time to discuss how we can best meet your needs and stay true to our vision. We are your neighborhood coffee shop and for us this is more than a means to an end. We love what we're embarking on! It's an exciting time in culinary art and in holistic eating. Alternatives are becoming available at rapid rates for people with food allergies, health concerns, ethical/environmental concerns, etc. And for many people, introductions to these options/alternatives are made in cafes/restaurants before they are introduced to the shopping cart.
Having said that we've made the decision to include organic milk in addition to our non-dairy milks.
Finally, we'd like to address a couple of your other concerns:
a) Stumptown coffee practices Direct Trade which is a progression from Fair Trade. On average Direct Trade pays over a $1/lb above the Fair Trade price. You can find out more here:
b) We say no a firm no to $5 lattes! We think you'll find our prices are very competitive!
See you Saturday,
The Breukelen Coffee House _________________ Do Everything You Do With Love!
ntfool Regular
Joined: 19 Sep 2008 Posts: 184 Location: St. Francis Pl. - Crow Hill/Crown Heights
Sun Sep 27, 09 10:19 am EST
I find it fairly rude that the purveyor of an upcoming coffee place on Franklin starts a thread here advertising his soon-to-be-open shop, only to have it continually hijacked by another soon-to-open coffee place, also on Franklin, which will clearly be its competition.
Why hasn't Breukelen started its own thread yet? _________________ If you're happy, you're not paying attention.
spurn Productions, Inc.
AP Movin' on up
Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Posts: 61 Location: Franklin Ave.
Wed Sep 30, 09 10:10 am EST
Wishing best of luck to both businesses. It sounds like there will be something for just about everyone between these two coffee shops. We local residents are lucky to see such encouraging growth on Franklin Av.
I say good luck to anyone venturing into running a business--it's not easy and they deserve the support of the community so long as they're providing a good product and friendly service.
prospectheightsyo Pee Heights Brigade
Joined: 19 Aug 2009 Posts: 102
Wed Sep 30, 09 3:11 pm EST
What time is the grand opening on Saturday morning? Any freebies? _________________ No Excuses.
Breukelen Coffee House Newbie
Joined: 28 Aug 2009 Posts: 12 Location: 764A Franklin Avenue
Fri Oct 02, 09 10:00 pm EST
Hi everyone,
We regret to inform you that we've had to postpone our grand opening.
We'd like to wish Tony a happy opening on Monday!
The Breukelen Coffee House _________________ Do Everything You Do With Love!
catwalkertexasranger Local
Joined: 30 Jun 2009 Posts: 284
Fri Oct 02, 09 11:37 pm EST
Where's the beef? This coffee better be ....ing great. Newspaper on 1 and woodworkers at the other. Under promise and over deliver. Better not to show up than to show up and disappoint. The wingless Hooter twins.
tonyfisher Newbie
Joined: 11 Mar 2009 Posts: 26
Sat Oct 03, 09 1:19 am EST
I am very sorry to hear that the Breukelen people are not opening sat. I so wanted to try their veagan pastries with a cup of stumptown organic coffee with raw organic sugar and a bit of hemp milk. Nevertheless i wish you guys well and hope for the best. And for everyone else, we are working very hard to get this place open. And one day soon it will be open. But when you might ask? You just have to follow on twitter! I have been posting updates among other things. We got a little held back because of the delays in getting the fixtures. NOW WEVE GOT THEM. Its full steam ahead. We will be opening very soon, not oct 5 but soon. As always anyone is more than welcome to come and say whats up. Also I Still have a couple of spots open for job seekers with cafe experience. see ya
www.twitter.com/pulpandbean
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