SAY NO TO ATLANTIC YARDS
PROTEST Against Ratner’s Rip-off
July 29.
Start Gathering at 1pm.
Outside Klitgord Auditorium of NYC Technical College
285 Jay Street, Near Tillary
(A/C to Jay St./Borough Hall. 2/3 to Borough Hall)[/b]
The Empire State Development Corporation (ESDC) is holding a public hearing on the Atlantic Yards project on July 29th.
Develop Don’t Destroy Brooklyn (DDDB) urges you to join a protest against Ratner’s destructive project outside the hearing and to come out and testify at the hearing.
This is it, there will be no more public hearings on Atlantic Yards, it is the community’s chance to tell ESDC and Ratner:
We Don’t Want Atlantic Yards.
We Want Development That Works for the Community,
Not at the Expense of the Community
Atlantic Yards Must Be Scrapped!
Join DDDB, other community groups, residents, clergy, union members, and elected officials for the protest. Please start gathering at 1pm.
The hearing is scheduled from 2-5 and 6-8. The protest will start at 1. Then DDDB asks the public to sign in and testify against the project. (If you are unable to come for the afternoon protest and hearing, DDDB urges you to come for the late afternoon/evening hearing; we will be there from 1 until the end at 8 or later. Look for us.)
Bring Protest Signs. Speak your mind about the project.
Atlantic Yards is a rip-off for taxpayers,
A rip-off for straphangers,
A rip-off for those in need of affordable housing,
A rip-off for those in need of employment.
A rip-off for Brooklynites and a rip-off for New Yorkers
It is a boondoggle for Bruce Ratner.
No More Bailouts for Billionaires
Please spread the word to your community groups, friends, colleagues and neighbors.
Jamzer Lifer
Joined: 06 Oct 2005 Posts: 914 Location: Park F'ing Slope
Wed Jul 22, 09 11:47 am EST
Is it a rip-off for the construction workers who would be working on the project for years? Just asking.
Danny Hellman Local
Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Posts: 209
Wed Jul 22, 09 2:33 pm EST
Jamzer wrote:
Is it a rip-off for the construction workers who would be working on the project for years? Just asking.
Some construction workers get a payday for building something that, if it should be built at all, ought to be built somewhere else. Hoo-fucking-ray.
Meanwhile, if the stadium gets built, it'll mean one of the worst intersections in the city will become The Worst Intersection In The World.™
Jack Krohn My Baby's Gone Shootin'
Joined: 18 Dec 2005 Posts: 787 Location: Prospect Heights
Wed Jul 22, 09 7:30 pm EST
Yet another DDDB event scheduled in the middle of a workday. No wonder average attendance at their rallies is eight or nine.
rogersma Regular
Joined: 31 May 2005 Posts: 128 Location: Dean Street
Wed Jul 22, 09 9:02 pm EST
Quote:
Yet another DDDB event scheduled in the middle of a workday. No wonder average attendance at their rallies is eight or nine.
Yet another ESDC hearing scheduled in the middle of a workday. No wonder average attendance at their hearings is ACORN recruits with free box-lunches and union guys on the clock.
The protest is scheduled in the middle of the day because the ESDC is holding their hearing in the middle of the day, Jack.
We wish that weren't the case so the maximum number of people on either side of the issue could come.
DDDB has never scheduled any event in the middle of a weekday. Only ESDC has.
As our notice says, because we understand it is tough for everyone to turn out to a hearing in the middle of the day:
If you are unable to come for the afternoon protest and hearing, DDDB urges you to come for the late afternoon/evening hearing; we will be there from 1 until the end at 8 or later. Look for us.
Capt. Planet Life is for the living, so let's get it on!
Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 642 Location: Park Place NY/Nostrand
Fri Jul 24, 09 8:01 am EST
Danny Hellman wrote:
Jamzer wrote:
Is it a rip-off for the construction workers who would be working on the project for years? Just asking.
Some construction workers get a payday for building something that, if it should be built at all, ought to be built somewhere else. Hoo-fucking-ray.
Meanwhile, if the stadium gets built, it'll mean one of the worst intersections in the city will become The Worst Intersection In The World.™
Where would you like to have it built? Bear in mind this stadium could stand fifty years, by which time cars may well not be the chief form of transportation. In terms of public policy, carbon footprinting, ease of access for the masses, centrality of location, etc. etc. Atlantic Yards is the obvious place to build a stadium. Just because a bunch of lead headed car morons can't figure that out doesn't mean it's a bad idea.
Go back to sleep and maybe you can dream a bigger dream for the future of our borough!
Ratner plans to build 4,000 parking spots. Perhaps he is the "lead headed car moron" you speak of?
There are numerous other places in the borough with good public transit and, get this, land already owned by the city, to build an arena. But that wouldn't serve Bruce Ratner's land monopoly goals.
Capt. Planet Life is for the living, so let's get it on!
Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 642 Location: Park Place NY/Nostrand
Sun Jul 26, 09 7:55 pm EST
DDDB wrote:
Ratner plans to build 4,000 parking spots. Perhaps he is the "lead headed car moron" you speak of?
There are numerous other places in the borough with good public transit and, get this, land already owned by the city, to build an arena. But that wouldn't serve Bruce Ratner's land monopoly goals.
You can build on parking lots, if need be. Even a park if that's what makes sense, once Brooklynites figure out that cars suck. You can't relocate the largest mass transit hub in Brooklyn, however.
And where exactly are these other locations you speak of? There were a number of locations thrown out in the early days of the Atlantic Yards debate, among them Coney Island (hardly centrallly located) and the Brooklyn Navy Yard (no mass transit and already virtually filled industrial park).
So I'm all ears, DDDB. Talk to us.
raulism Crabby Native
Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Posts: 510 Location: Prospect Place
Mon Jul 27, 09 1:06 am EST
Capt. Planet wrote:
And where exactly are these other locations you speak of? There were a number of locations thrown out in the early days of the Atlantic Yards debate, among them Coney Island (hardly centrallly located) and the Brooklyn Navy Yard (no mass transit and already virtually filled industrial park).
So I'm all ears, DDDB. Talk to us.
Ya know, if you're concerned about transportation, you may have noticed that subway fares just went up. The MTA complains that it lacks cash flow. So what does it do? It gives away the Vanderbilt Railyards (appraised at $214.5 Million) to Ratner for $20 Million, with the promise of another $80 million over the next TWENTY TWO years.
Just when the MTA has to start borrowing more money, it in effect lends money to Forest City Ratner.
Remember, Ratner originally bid $50 Million for the railyards, but had to up it because DDDb found another bidder. Extel bid $150 Million, so Ratner boosted up his bid to $100 Million with the promise of substantial improvements to the system. Now, those promised improvements are disappearing, along with the money that the MTA desperately needs.
So, Capt. Planet, tell me how that's good for our transportation system.
Maybe the corner of Flatbush and Atlantic is a great place for a 6,000 unit luxury condo project with an arena thrown in. But has there been ANY credible study? That's the ESDC's (Empire State Development Corporation, the supposed lead agency on the proposal) job, not DDDb's. And according to the ESDC, the Atlantic Yards proposal will speed traffic (yeah, right) because they will fiddle with the timing of the traffic lights.
I have read a lot of the ESDC's Environmental Impact Statement. It's a piece of fiction with only superficial similarities to my neighborhood.
I am so proud of the work of DDDb to shine some light on this project. Atlantic Yards has no clear financing, no timeline, and there's not even a rendering since the ESDC won't tell us who the architects are. In a year when 44 elected officials and other got arrested for corruption here and in New Jersey, we need someone to keep tabs on these projects. And the ESDC is NOT doing that job.
If you have questions about the project, ask the ESDC. Let me know what they say.
perplexed cynical
Joined: 17 May 2008 Posts: 35 Location: Prospect Heights
Wed Jul 29, 09 7:06 pm EST
Capt. Planet wrote:
DDDB wrote:
Ratner plans to build 4,000 parking spots. Perhaps he is the "lead headed car moron" you speak of?
There are numerous other places in the borough with good public transit and, get this, land already owned by the city, to build an arena. But that wouldn't serve Bruce Ratner's land monopoly goals.
You can build on parking lots, if need be. Even a park if that's what makes sense, once Brooklynites figure out that cars suck. You can't relocate the largest mass transit hub in Brooklyn, however.
And where exactly are these other locations you speak of? There were a number of locations thrown out in the early days of the Atlantic Yards debate, among them Coney Island (hardly centrallly located) and the Brooklyn Navy Yard (no mass transit and already virtually filled industrial park).
So I'm all ears, DDDB. Talk to us.
How about not everyone wants a stadium in their backyard! Let Jersey keep the damn Nets, I sure as hell don't want them.
Capt. Planet Life is for the living, so let's get it on!
Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 642 Location: Park Place NY/Nostrand
Tue Aug 04, 09 10:38 pm EST
Yes, I get that no one wants a stadium in their backyard, or a lot more traffic in their neighborhood.
In fact maybe the days are gone when city's could actually plan anything. In this wonderful "post civilization" era, no wants to pay for schools, roads, bridges, tunnels, buses, subways or anything that detracts from their personal freedom or that requires personal sacrifice and commitment.
OK, I get it. Let's just party until the planet's toast.
I was talking to a woman I met in Brower Park today and she brought up the topic of the "end times". She noted that when she was younger, people used to talk about lot about the apocalypse and the end of the world. Now that it appears closer ever day, she doesn't hear anyone talk about it anymore. It's like we've given up, resigned ourselves to the inevitable and decided to simply drink, smoke or screw ourselves to death.
What does this have to do with Atlantic Yards? And in deed, who would want to sacrifice anything for the "greater good". Screw that, it's so 1950's.
Carnivore Brooklyn Snark
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 13712 Location: St Johns Pl and Underhill
Wed Aug 05, 09 7:59 am EST
Sorry, but a Ratner stadium is not "the greater good." The Nets already have a stadium. Building another stadium would benefit no one but Ratner.
sweet tea Cooler Ham
Joined: 26 Feb 2006 Posts: 4981 Location: the jewish
Wed Aug 05, 09 8:11 am EST
uh...how is building a big ugly stadium (and attendant junk) NOT "just partying until the planet's toast"? _________________ Bumping ancient threads with bot-like bullshit
raulism Crabby Native
Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Posts: 510 Location: Prospect Place
Wed Aug 05, 09 10:55 am EST
Here is the newest video from Freddy's Brooklyn Roundhouse:
And in deed, who would want to sacrifice anything for the "greater good". Screw that, it's so 1950's.
That reminds me of many incidents in this "debate." Most recently- last week- an elderly resident was testifying that she was worried about her asthma, since she lived near the proposed Atlantic Yards. Ratner-supporters laughed and jeered at her. That's about as far as sacrificing as I can imagine. Laughing at someone's real asthma because you hope to get an imaginary job?
The public benefits of this project have remained obscure for more than 5 years. And the private benefits to Ratner have also remained hidden. I don't want my neighborhood and borough to be sacrificed for Ratner's good.
Karl the Druid on facebook i am now
Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 935 Location: nethermead
Thu Aug 06, 09 1:56 am EST
Capt. Planet wrote:
I was talking to a woman I met in Brower Park today and she brought up the topic of the "end times". She noted that when she was younger, people used to talk about lot about the apocalypse and the end of the world. Now that it appears closer ever day, she doesn't hear anyone talk about it anymore.
you must cease all communication with that perfidious woman at once
we are in fact in the middle of the "rapture" and barely close to the "end of time"
Capt. Planet wrote:
It's like we've given up, resigned ourselves to the inevitable and decided to simply drink, smoke or screw ourselves to death.
"giving up" is allowing a thug to blatantly purchase organizations (acorn, esdc... etc) to treacherously peddle empty promises of an economic future to desperate people
does fcr really believe it will save us all?
the kernel of truth is sad, so sad for berth's sweet acorn
but for shame
now that we know what bertha has become
what was her price? _________________ destination: roam
Capt. Planet Life is for the living, so let's get it on!
Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 642 Location: Park Place NY/Nostrand
Thu Aug 06, 09 8:58 am EST
Let's all drop the posing and remember for a hot minute that this whole Atlantic Yards adventure started with a dream, of our beloved boro president. He figures, hey, Brooklyn went into a major decline that lasted 30 years when the Dodgers left Brooklyn. Can we indeed bring back the halcyon days of the 50's by bringing back the Dodgers?
Answer: no. But since the 50's basketball has become the happening sport on virtually every park and playground in central and south Brooklyn (check out Brower Park anytime day or night). Why not bring back a basketball team?
Yes, the Nets have a stadium....... in New Jersey, in a wetlands euphemistically called the Meadowlands, in the middle of nowhere surrounded by delicate habitat and accessible only by car or bus.
Why not build a Brooklyn stadium actually near somebody? Readily accessible by mass transit, where the average citizen could get there without owning a car. A lot of folks could actually even walk or ride their bikes. If anybody has ever been to the Cubs stadium in Chicago, you know what I'm talking about.
Well, of course, Marty had that vision a long time ago, before Ratner persuaded him to build goo gobs of housing, before some media magnets realized they could get a lot of attention squealing like stuck pigs for public consumption, etc. etc.
So here we are now ten years later. Ratner's toast, Gehry's done but Marty remains and his idea of a modest stadium might actually happen.
Kind of an interesting saga, which I'm sure some historians will have a great time writing about. It will interesting to see who turns out to the heroes.
sweet tea Cooler Ham
Joined: 26 Feb 2006 Posts: 4981 Location: the jewish
Thu Aug 06, 09 9:18 am EST
i imagine the winners will be the heroes, as the generally are, writing the history books and all.
i had somehow missed the part of this plan that included returning the meadowlands to their natural state. i also missed the part where professional sports were particularly desirable, but perhaps the nets have done a lot for new jersey that maybe i don't know about? _________________ Bumping ancient threads with bot-like bullshit
Karl the Druid on facebook i am now
Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 935 Location: nethermead
Thu Aug 06, 09 10:47 am EST
posing? there are no hidden traps and doors in my comments
my antipathy for fcr's mutton-dressed-as-lamb agenda is quite real
Capt. Planet wrote:
...Brooklyn went into a major decline that lasted 30 years when the Dodgers left Brooklyn. Can we indeed bring back the halcyon days of the 50's by bringing back the Dodgers?
in the late 60's new york entered into a great economic decline
as manufacturing the left american port/manufacturing cities for cheaper production in asia and other countries
displacing much of brooklyn's middle class families that depended on those industries
the 70's recession was notfor the fact that the dodgers had left brooklyn
Capt. Planet wrote:
Yes, the Nets have a stadium....... in New Jersey, in a wetlands euphemistically called the Meadowlands, in the middle of nowhere surrounded by delicate habitat and accessible only by car or bus.
i'm sure this topic been hashed out ad nauseum... but here it goes
without a wetland barrier the state of nj would be a complete ecological disaster
the wetlands must be regarded with delicate care
comparable to that brooklyn's middle class is our borough's economic wetland barrier
the projected ay build-out will further displace the already shrinking middle class that lives in the direct area in the wake of its long-term construction
quite a disaster that would be in these times
but the union people have boldly made their point about the benefits
if ay is realized they will have jobs and truck loads of free sandwiches for a while _________________ destination: roam
Capt. Planet Life is for the living, so let's get it on!
Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 642 Location: Park Place NY/Nostrand
Thu Aug 06, 09 5:41 pm EST
What about the Cubs don't people get?
The Cubs stadium is this little homey affair right next to the subway - you can practically catch a pop fly from the elevated platform. Cubbie fans are notoriously loyal, love their little team with the little stadium right in the n'hood. It's the heart of the community.
Why can't the Brooklyn Nets be the heart of Brookly? Sure the departure of the Dodgers didn't cause Brooklyn's decline, but it sure felt that way to the folks who lived here. A boro lives not by food alone, and having a heart is certainly part of the magic that makes a community feel like home.
Let's have a little magic mixed in with the graduate degrees and six figure incomes. Whadda say?
sweet tea Cooler Ham
Joined: 26 Feb 2006 Posts: 4981 Location: the jewish
Thu Aug 06, 09 10:51 pm EST
have you lived near wrigley field? i have, and my friends have lived closer. it's not cute when baseball season means frat boys peeing on your porch every night. traffic is a frickin' nightmare, too, and that's only for baseball season, not most nights of the year.
that said, it is true that part of what's cool about wrigley is how you can watch games from the roof tops (once you join one of the very pricey clubs, but anyway) and how you can see the scoreboard from the el. i've heard nothing about this plan that makes me think it will have any of the same openness, that sense that you can be part of the game without buying an expensive ticket. instead, i've heard about "parks" that won't be open to the public. not the same vibe at all. _________________ Bumping ancient threads with bot-like bullshit
Carnivore Brooklyn Snark
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 13712 Location: St Johns Pl and Underhill
Thu Aug 06, 09 11:01 pm EST
As a lifelong Brooklynite, I find the very suggestion that we as New Yorkers should take our cue from the Second City as blasphemous.
raulism Crabby Native
Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Posts: 510 Location: Prospect Place
Thu Aug 06, 09 11:32 pm EST
Capt. Planet wrote:
Let's have a little magic mixed in with the graduate degrees and six figure incomes. Whadda say?
We have the magic right here!
Brooklyn is a magical place, even if Bruce Ratner doesn't bestow us his lovely Nets basketball team (assuming that he still owns it). We don't need a 200 foot high lighted advertisement that would likely grace the Barclays™ Center™ to make our hearts twinkle. The jeering of an elderly woman by Atlantic Yards supporters is not the sort of laughter I need.
Making Brooklyn a more community-oriented home requires a lot of work. Bruce Ratner has done more to tear Brooklynites apart than anyone else, IMHO. I'd rather look to my neighbors, and even the Brooklynian, to create that magical feeling. Throwing tax subsidies at a billionaire is not my idea of fun.
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