[Flexichick]

Some of you already know that my boy Jackson had a bout with crystals 2 months ago.

Signs were: peeing outside of the box, obsessive grooming of and growling at his penis and straining to pee.

Took him to the vet and had him tested. They said it was crystals. He was on a muscle relaxer (to make peeing easier) and valium (one for me, one for him) and things were better for a few weeks.They also pressed on his bladder until he peed and I saw the crystals come out while he screeched his head off (NOT something I recommend ever being in the room for).

Three weeks ago he started growling at his penis again. I ran him back down to the vet and went through tests again and they said all of his tests came back normal. No crystals. No infection. No blood in his urine.

I wasn't quite convinced he was ok, but the vet assured me that he seemed to be.

Well, he's at it again. Straining to pee. Sat in the box for 5 minutes and limped out walking all funny. Grooming and growling again.

I'm going to call the vet again tomorrow, but am worried and frustrated.

Anybody have any experience with this (I know Sweet Tea and Mamacita have been through similar things)


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Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!

[Mamacita]

Try a second opinion? I went to PS Vet on 413 5th ave.
El Gato Loco seems cured now
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[Flexichick]

^ I might get a second opinion. Since I actually *saw* the crystals, I believe the diagnosis. I just don't believe the second set of tests that say he was over them.

I will likely push for more prescription food at a minimum and ask a ton of questions.
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[sweet tea]

it's not something he'll "get over," and they shouldn't have implied that it was. his body chemistry will keeping making him form crystals. in our case, changes in diet (low magnesium wet food plus a pH-changing powder we give him every night) have worked to counteract the problem, but if we stopped those things, it would happen again. (in fact, it did recur when we lowered the amount of powder.) when he had the second incident, the vet also said that he could get thrown off by drinking less than usual or messing with his pee schedule or any number of other factors.

at any rate, just because he didn't have crystals three weeks ago doesn't mean he can't have formed them now. and i'm sure they hurt like murder.
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Bumping ancient threads with bot-like bullshit

[Flexichick]

thanks, sweet tea. Do you know what the pH powder is?

Also, which low magnesium wet food does he like? I've been doing that anyway, along with a urinary tract dry food (this was just Purina One after he finished his prescription dry)
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Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!

[sweet tea]

it's this stuff: http://www.amazon.com/Wysong-Biotic-Ph/dp/B0006MU976

we shake some on his dinner every night. he loves it, as it's mostly catnip and "beef powder."

as for food, we use any wet food that has .003% or less magnesium. we fed them Iams for a while, switched to wellness after that whole poisoning freakout, and now feed them the brand the coop sells. (food changes also dictated by the other cat, who stopped eating when we first changed their food and introduced us to the wonderful world of hepatic lipidosis, but that's another story. moral: don't let your fat cats stop eating.)
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Bumping ancient threads with bot-like bullshit

[Flexichick]

^thanks. Jackson is a junkie, so if it has catnip in it and he thinks it's some sort of treat, he will go for it.
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Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!

[sweet tea]

oh, and we don't do dry food anymore at all because the vet said we needed to make sure he was getting enough water, so that his urine is relatively dilute. if jackson is a big water-drinker, this might not matter. our cats don't seem to drink much, so the (stinky, expensive) wet food helps them not get dehydrated.
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Bumping ancient threads with bot-like bullshit

[Flexichick]

The dry food is urinary tract dry food, so I am hoping that's ok.

Jackson is a HUGE water drinker, especially if it's cold and comes from the Brita filter in the fridge (yes, he's spoiled, as if *that's* a surprise).

Stella let him sleep in her bed last night. I am very impressed! Of course, she has also decided she needs to use his litter box, so now it's hard to tell who is doing what in there. Sigh.
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[homeowner]

[Flexichick]

^thanks, Homeowner. I'm not working right now, so I am here to serve Jackson his cold water on a regular basis. If I do end up spending a lot of time out of the house, I'll look into one of those things.
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[brokechick]

the type of food and pH that he requires will depend on the type of crystals that he was making--did the vet tell you if they were struvite or calcium oxalate? they require different approaches. the wrong food can actually make the problem worse by shifting the pH in the wrong direction. there is a food made by waltham royal canin called SO that can be used for either type of crystal, and i think it's the only one that's appropriate for both. my mom's cat started making calcium crystals with no infection or secondary issue, and they determined that it was a metabolic issue that would cause recurrent obstructions. we switched him to SO canned and dry, and there were no more problems. he was a picky eater, too, and he always ate it, so it must be tasty.
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your girl is something of a shrew, hubbell.

[Flexichick]

Jackson was on the Royal Canin SO. He (and Stella) loved the dry food, but had no interest in the wet food. Thankfully, PPAC gave me a refund because it's expensive.

Waiting on a call back from the vet and have my list of questions in hand.

Thanks, everybody!
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Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!

[Flexichick]

Spoke with vet. Jackson is going back in tomorrow. His crystals were struvite. Am going to bring a description of the pH powder with me to see what they say and am also going to pick up more Royal Canin SO dry food.

Damn cat is costing my unemployed ass a fortune, but I love him to pieces
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Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!

[Domino]

After our little boy Tony Soprano (had a few missing teeth so looked like he was snarling AND polyps so sounded like a every breath was a rasp) started developing crystals we fed him the prescription food for a while. We have since switched to a wet food which took him a bit to get used to but a sprinkling of catnip convinced him this was G-O-O-D.

We also keep trying get him to drink more water - which is a never ending strategy game (one day we use tuna cans that haven't been rinsed, other days we put in a few drops of NATURAL chicken broth, etc.). He refused to go near the water tower we got him even though the vet said this was the best option. His favorite water? The icky curbside puddles!!!! Go figure.
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[Flexichick]

^ ha. Silly Tony Soprano (love his name)
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Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!

[brokechick]

you have more food options if it's struvite, he shouldn't have to stay on the SO (which is one of the priciest urinary rx foods). once he's clear, just make sure to choose something that lists a protein as the first ingredient rather than a grain, and stick to what sweet tea said about the magnesium content. DL-methionine is also a good ingredient to look for, it helps regulate ammonia formation in urine to keep it on the acidic side (what you want). unfortunately, you will probably have to get used to the idea of this being something you'll have to keep an eye on forever.

i hope jackson feels better soon, nobody should ever have to growl at his own peepee.
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your girl is something of a shrew, hubbell.

[Flexichick]

[Domino]

How is Jackson today?

I forgot to ask yesterday but did you switch him to a WET food since the initial episode? Since kittehs never really ate dry food in the wild, they do much better with wet. They do not take in enough water on a dry diet and so their systems do not fully flush. Once we stopped giving Tony the dry food, even the moist the vet recommended was crap, he improved. We tried Wellness, Wellness Core, Natural Balance and all were good - but expensive. We switched to Triumph and Fancy Feast which he seems to have done just as well on.

Stop feeding ALL dry foods (even treats) and switch to a wet food diet. Either high quality canned, or a raw diet. You can learn about raw food at www.catinfo.org. You might have to do a little reading on the canned to get the right mineral ratios (as all have said above, high protein, low grain and magnesium). One of my friends believes in only RAW and she suggested using Glucosomine and Chrondriton for preventing inflammation in the urethra. She also recommended dry cranberry extract (just a pinch) on the wet food. I have not tried either.
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[Flexichick]

He's still a mess today. Thanks for asking.

He just spent a few minutes in his box straining and nothing came out. Then he was growling. We're going to the vet this afternoon.

Stella and Jackson split a can of wet food twice a day. I used to give them Fancy Feast, but have upgraded to better quality/low magnesium stuff since his first bout with crystals.

They also have dry food out all day. They had Royal Canin SO for a while, then Health Choice Vet Extension (high quality but not meant for UT problems) on one dish and Purina UT dry food on the other (when I ran out of the SO).

I'm going to pick up more SO later today.
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Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!

[Domino]

Try removing the dry food TOTALLY. I am sure that they will be more than happy to give up the dry.

Think of your little boy as a mini tiger. You don't see too many tigers on the Serengeti chowing down on any dry herbs and grains. They are carnivores and eat their meat bloody - - well, you get the picture. Not much water out there so their little bodies are bred to have a low thirst trigger as well.

Try switching the kitty litter too. Get yourself a bag of scientific litter so you can keep track of Jackson's PH levels at home. You won’t be able to detect the crystals at home that cause blockages, but if the ph was off you could monitor his "output" much better.
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WHY am I always the meat in the middle of an imbecile sandwich?

[Flexichick]

^ I never heard of "scientific litter". Do you have a brand name?
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Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!

[Flexichick]

it is something like this?

http://www.amazon.com/Pet-Ecology-Scientific-.....qid=1260466217&sr=8-1
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Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!

[Domino]

The one we used was called Perfect Litter (used to be called Scientific Professional). In honor of Jackson and all the other little kittehs I love, I have changed my avatar
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WHY am I always the meat in the middle of an imbecile sandwich?

[Domino]

BTW - Perfect litter is actually better for everyone - flushable, use less (2 lb = 14 lbs of standard litter), dust free and bio-degradable. I used to have it shipped!
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WHY am I always the meat in the middle of an imbecile sandwich?

[brokechick]

[Domino]

Good point brokechick! Kitteh teeth and gums need to be attended to as well but until the pee-pee problem is resolved, might be better to keep to wet.

We do not have the same issues - we adopted Tony two years ago at the age of 11-12 and he was already missing some teeth due to prior problems. We try to give him some crunchy treats once in a while but he struggles with them.
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WHY am I always the meat in the middle of an imbecile sandwich?

[stacey]

Flex - do you feed them fish flavored foods? I was told that can cause the crystals/UTI. I also think it was the stress of missing his mommy that brought on the recurrence. Give him kitty kisses for me

[Flexichick]

I love the new avatar, Domino!

Jackson and Stella both love cleaning their teeth on grass and plants outside, but they don't get to do that as much in the winter.

My poor boo is crying like crazy. He's on valium and muscle relaxer and wobbly.
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Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!

[Flexichick]

I'm back. He's not. He has to stay overnight

They squeezed his bladder and more crystals came out, along with a bunch of pee. They want to watch him overnight and then he goes back on the SO and they will try a new wet food.

Vet tech was super nice and remarked at how handsome he is and offered to give him lots of keeeeses tonight and tomorrow

So, it's me and StinkyPuss by ourselves tonight.
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Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!

[Mamacita]

Ouch, poor baby. Let us know how he feels tomorrow when he's back home.
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(=’.'=)
(”)_(”) "Gentrifire Extinguisher"

[brokechick]

poor jackson! so ouchy. i hope they can flush everything out.
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your girl is something of a shrew, hubbell.

[Domino]

Any updates on the baby????
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WHY am I always the meat in the middle of an imbecile sandwich?

[Flexichick]

I spoke with the doctor this morning. They gave him sub-q fluids and want to keep him for the rest of the day. They said he's doing fine, the crystals are definitely struvite (they tested the new ones) and I will pick him up (along with more Royal Canin SO) this afternoon
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Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!

[Mamacita]

poor baby, give him keesies for me and kick up the heater so he has a nice warm bed tonight.
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(\__/)
(=’.'=)
(”)_(”) "Gentrifire Extinguisher"

[Flexichick]

We're back!

He was starving (loves that SO dry food, thankfully) and is now washing all of the vet stink off of himself.

I have to say that the technicians there (doctors too, but especially the techs) are super nice. They all love him and I am comfortable that they are taking good care of him while he's there. I know they talk to him and pet him and was even told that he got lots of kisses (he is on valium so he probably didn't care)
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Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!

[Mamacita]

How's Jackie?
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(=’.'=)
(”)_(”) "Gentrifire Extinguisher"

[Flexichick]

He's doing better. Thanks for asking.

Stinky is letting him sleep in her bed (a Xmas miracle) and since he's stoned he's extra shmoopy and letting me give him kisses.

He got to go outside this morning for a while and watch the birds.
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Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!

[Domino]

So happy to hear that Jackson is doing better! Kitteh keeshes all around!
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WHY am I always the meat in the middle of an imbecile sandwich?

[LongTimeSloper]

Good tips in here, I am about to order a free trial version of Perfect Litter now. My cat is also in the hospital with a urinary blockage for the second time in 8 months, going to check out the supplement powder also.

OK, once I put in my shipping info, it now says I have to pay $5.95 shipping and handling,so, I guess it's not really a "free trial'. Should I do it?

By the way, my vet and things I have read on the internet also state that stress can cause blockage and sand. Crystals too I believe, go figure

[Domino]

If you cannot get it yourself it is worth it. Then again, I would give my last dollar for my furry babies.
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WHY am I always the meat in the middle of an imbecile sandwich?