[MHA]

Someone got shot twice near the tattoo parlor near the corner of Franklin Avenue and Park Place. It's my understanding that there was an exchange of words between two young men, and one shot the other in his left leg. I heard the shots; I heard two. Some have said there were three. First there was one, and there was enough time before the second to say, 'Was that a gunshot?' And then there was a second, then a growing crowd, and a few screams. This happened at about 2:35pm. As it so happened there was a police car practically parallel to the shooting. Someone said that he saw the whole thing happen, and that he witnessed the police witnessing the shooter as he walked/ran away. The whole area is now clogged with traffic. I called 911 no more than 2 minutes after the shooting. The 911 operator was a total douchebag. He asked me what happened, and I told him the obvious, he asked when, and I told him just awhile a go, I asked him repeatedly when would an ambulance arrive. It took some time before the ambulance arrived. It took too long if you ask me. The young man lay on the ground, first conscious, then in and out of consciousness -- presumably he was going into shock. Then he convulsed a few times. Someone tried to keep him conscious and give him water. No no no, don't do that; the 911 operator said the same thing. The cops stood around -- rookies. None made any attempt to tend to his wounds. One of them slowly got police tape and began making a perimeter, then it became cops being cops and pushing people back: "Step back please, step back."

"Where is the ambulance?!" became the cry. Step back please step back. A cop put his hands on my chest. I took a long look at his face, and his badge number. I could see it in his eyes:'Please touch me.' I didn't.

Then came the usual chatter about brothers killing brothers, and how 'it's a part of The Plan'; 'No, we are killing ourselves.' Others talked about seeing the guy walk away calmly, others said, "just over a disagreement?"

Sad, all sad.

[King without a crown]

Sounds like a lot of your story focuses on the Police, I guess we gotta blame someone,right! If the Officer had to put his hand on your chest, I'm assuming you were right in the middle of the Crime scene and probably thought it would be a prime opportunity to provoke a Cop doing his job.

[MHA]

Dude if YOU want to think it was my intent to provoke a cop, then live your azure blue fantasy. The cops did NOTHING for him. NOTHING. No first aid, NOTHING. I along with others were trying to ensure the brother made it. The cops were pushing away the VERY people trying to help him. So yeah, I am critical of the cops here. They stood around putting YELLOW tape around the guy, offering NO HELP to him. NONE. NYET, NADA, not a goddamned thing. Were YOU there? If you weren't there then you have no credence here. NONE. NYET, NADA.

[Mamacita]

I'm with KWAC
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(”)_(”) "Gentrifire Extinguisher"

[MHA]

Welll whoop di doo Mamacita. If you think that the cops were pushing away people who were making attempt to incite the police, then you are nuts. That did not happen. That's not reality. I made no such attempt. Nor did others. We waited and waited for an ambulance. It took a long time for one to come, and finally a fire engine came. Finally an ambulance came, but it took some time to come. The police did nothing for this guy Mamacita, do you hear me? NOTHING. Is that police protocol too? No first aid until EMS arrives?

[citymouse]

I saw this same incident today while finishing up my run. In fact I overheard one of the police casually say as he got into his car "Well I guess it's time for me to get a Slurpee!" and then drive off. There was still a huge crowd gathered.

I have no love for the police in this neigborhood. Just before (or maybe at the same time this shooting was going on, I was only out for a 40 min run) I got stopped and frisked by male cops who stopped me while I was jogging then frisked/pat me down (while I was wearing spandex running shorts, and a sports bra.. what did they think I was hiding in there?) They said they were "going to be nice today" but that they could have given me a ticket for disorderly conduct because I was not carrying ID?!?! I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was committing the crime of operating a pair of Nikes without a permit.

Anyway it appalls me that the cops in this town have the time to harass random people on the street for NO reason (except maybe to cop a feel) and yet they would do nothing for this injured guy and even make jokes about it.

[citymouse]

double

[Jack Krohn]

I agree with KWAC and Mamacita. A shooting occurs and somehow the police, not the shooter, are demonized. I hope they catch him and that the victim survives.

[MHA]

There you go KWAC. There you go Mamacita. What now? What rationale to describe this behavior?

[eastbloc]

[eastbloc]

[independent mind]

MHA I'm sure your frustration with the cops is, in part, displaced anxiety about the young man. Where is he now? Was his family notified? etc. Part of what is frustrating here, no doubt, is the difficulty of following up on how he is doing and the irritating system whereby really concerned members of the community are cordoned off almost immediately by cops who treat the whole process as if they are running a checkout at walgreens. Maybe you can try to combat your frustration by taking action---setting up a means for community members to discuss and follow up on crime scenes/shootings in the nabe. I think that would mean a lot to people. You could even establish it thru brooklynian....as you have already begun, in a way.

Anhow, as horrific as everything looked this morning, I'm sure he'll be OK if he was only shot in the leg. I hope you recognize that you've been a little traumatized yourself, and be kind to yourself.

[citymouse]

I'm disturbed that the police will not take the time to deal with a much more serious situation like SOMEONE GETTING SHOT.. thankfully it sounds like he will survive if it was just in the leg?

We really don't know what the situation was here. But it is disturbing to me that people are just jumping to blame the shot guy.

Also let's not forget that both things can be true. The "victim" may not be "completely innocent," AND the police can be incompetent pigs, AT THE SAME TIME.

[King without a crown]

FYI Police are not required to render medical assistance to Gunshot Victims. Police are not trained nor do they carry items used such as latex gloves to handle blood and other bio hazards. Officers at the scene of an Emergency incident are required to maintain crowd control,preserve evidence and request the response of EMS. Believe it or not, it is unlawful to render medical assistance to a injured party if you're not qualified to do so. Im also willing to bet that the victim in this case is probably not an innocent victim either, just a hunch.

[Mamacita]

Having been certified in CPR and First Aid I found it strange but true that there are rules and legal repercussions that are really ridiculous about dealing with these issues. You can get sued for so many reasons by jumping in to help or not. I'm too exhausted after work to look all this up, and not sure if NYC is the same as the state i took my training in... but yeah, plenty of sides and angles to every story. One thing is true. "it is unlawful to render medical assistance to a injured party if you're not qualified to do so." I seem to recall that if you are licensed to do so and don't your in trouble too.
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[Girl in the city]

I agree with Independent Mind completely. It's really horrible to have this happen in our neighborhood and especially traumatic to have witnessed it. The police have really specific orders-- they need to secure the area and make sure no one else gets shot, basically. I know it may seem heartless, but their job is to keep the crime scene preserved and protect the community by making sure that this guy doesn't come back and start shooting other people. Nonetheless, I think anger is a natural response, it's the dominant expression of fear, sadness, frustration.

I should say-- I am NOT always a fan of the police. I think their presence in this neighborhood is often overwhelming, especially in the morning in the subway when kids are just trying to go to school; and let's not get started about the helicopters.

But I also agree that we should be focused on the guy who actually shot someone today. A few weeks ago someone was shot just on Franklin and Lincoln over, I think, a girl. What was this about? I'm really glad that the person will hopefully be okay, but now all of us who live in this neighborhood, and especially those of us who send kids out the door on their skateboard or bike now feel less safe and will have a slight knot in our throat the next time someone's late in the door because, often, gun-wielding men have terrible aim.

[independent mind]

That's right, so another thing we can all do next time if standing around horrified at a crime scene, instead of scrutinizing the (admittedly callous) police, is to shout out' is anyone here a certified cpr/first aid responder etc' and then tell them to identify themselves to the police, who, are also obliged by law, to allow them to attend to the injured party etc.

its all about taking your frustration and making solutions...

[Girl in the city]

Really good point and valuable information Independent Mind.

[King without a crown]

Unfortunately Officers who work in busy Precincts will see hundreds of attrocities ranging from Homicides, Rapes and even dead infants. This often results in a hardened seemingly callous response from Officers at such events. Its a natural defense mechanism that develops after witnessing more than is humanly possible to see, similar to soldiers suffering from post traumatic stress disorder. Police sometimes forget that getting shot and for those witnessing someone get shot is quite traumatic and their response may seem unusual to outsiders. Imagine if the people paid to maintain order and stay cool broke down at every Crime scene, with Cops in tears and frantically running around with all the other onlookers.

[RLC]

I, too, witnessed this event today and observed a gentleman get in the face of the first officer as soon as he approached the scene, and I was disturbed by the anger directed at the police (who I am no apologist for). Misplaced anger and frustration if you ask me. Why is it that the shooter (who is probably known by everyone involved) is allowed to simply walk away? Who is supposed to be angry and frustrated about that?

[eastbloc]

[King without a crown]

I wonder if dat was MHA all up in da Cops grill?

[eastbloc]

[ltjbukem]

cops vilified, but everyone in the community adheres to the BS no snitching credo...

what an effin' joke.
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[RLC]

Reflecting on this event later in the day I couldn't help but think about how practically every other building (I exaggerate) in this neighborhood houses a church. There is a serious disconnect in our society between community forums and our youth. (This is not to put blame on churches, but to point out the seeming failure of outreach.)

[King without a crown]

I think the Churches have more to do with a Tax write off

[mantic]

[mantic]

[King without a crown]

Some men wear sports bras too

[MHA]

No KWAC, it wasn't me 'all up in DA policeman's grill'. The cops did nothing to intervene. It's my understanding that it is not against the law to intervene where someone needs help, but by offering help you do open up yourself to litigation - in the event that further injury occurs as a result of your involvement. The police were telling people to back away without first determining whether or not there was anyone who could offer help. There is a dentist's office right beside the spot where the young man was shot, and I went in to try to see if the dentist could offer some help to the brother on the street. Jesus Christ, I can see why you are without a crown -- you don't deserve one!

I think it's a HUGE stretch in perspective to conclude that the crowd knew the shooter. In theory I was a part of 'the crowd', and I don't know the shooter. I know others who tried to offer help (again, a part of the crowd) and they too don't know the shooter. It's my hope that the cynicism that saturates this thread is not the truth.

People became frantic with the lack of an approaching ambulance. There was a collective cry: "Where is the ambulance" because it seemed to take forever for one to come. I gurantee you if it was a cop on the street, one would have materialized Star Trek style. For the cynics out there, I wonder if there is room in your mind to accept THAT as truth...

What fucks with me is that if this happened to me (may the gods forbid it) no doubt all of you cynics would be saying the same thing: I bet you MHA knows who did it, and he probably won't 'snitch'. Shame on you all. Seriously. Think about what you're saying. A young man was SHOT today. And none of us know why. He could have been your kin, or your friend, or father, or brother. Jesus H Christ, stop acting like arseholes.

This ruined the remainder of my day. I think metaphysically, we were all shot today.

[modsquad2.0]

[MHA]

It seems that modsquad thinks my initial post was a prime example of navel gazing; of making the tragedy about me instead of about the victim of the crime -- thus his need to say in essence, I like the smell of my own ass. If that's how the post was perceived by anyone, I apologize. That was not my intention.

[eastbloc]

[xlizellx]

I had my last first aid, CPR, and AED trainings in Pennsylvania, but the Good Samaritan Law there made it so that you couldn't be sued if you try to help someone in need. Not sure what the rules are in NYC...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law

[MHA]

Rereading the snippet regarding rendering aid -- which I will presume is an excerpt from NY's Good Samaritan statute, the operative word is 'qualified'. It's my guess that 'qualified' does not necessarily mean 'certified'. The descriptive 'qualified' is rather broad. It's my guess that police officers are qualified to give emergency help, but the city probably discourages it to dissuade liability. What KWAC and those with KWACky opinons don't realize is that by physically preventing someone from rendering aid to another, the police can face liability as well. I will make sure to tell the 'non-snitching and of-course equally culpable victim' that once he recovers...


Addendum: Just because one is qualified to render aid does not obligate one to render aid. So if there is somoene in need of medical help, and there is a cry: "Is there a doctor/nurse in the house?" The doctor or nurse in the house is not obligated to help, but IF they do and their help is deemed negligent by a court down the road, they are liable. I will have to do some legal research but it's bizaare to me that if a police officer is sworn to protect its citizenry then by law, if he/she is on duty, that would obligate them to help those in need of help. In contrast, think of the case a few years back where some police officers dressed up in blackface and threw watermelon slices at the crowd [ina Long Island parade I think?]. I always thought that despite how reprehensible their behavior was, the fact that they were off duty does not obligate them to withold their opinion; it was and is an example of freedom of expression. Why should off duty police officers be obligated to act a certain way? In contradistinction, it seems to me that on duty police officers ARE obligated to adhere to the oath they take. Turning their back on a man while he potentially drains blood from a cut femoral artery is neither protecting nor serving.

[eastbloc]

Note I didn't say the victim was "equally culpable."

The truth is most shootings around here aren't random. When someone "gets theirs", aside from the stray bullet cases, it's because someone else felt they deserved it.

[Hamilton]

,

i wonder what action would be taken if a police officer was shot , would he just lay there waiting for help or would he be rushed to the nearest hospital in a patrol car.

just a thought.

[King without a crown]

Next time you witness someone get shot, why don't you go ask an Officer?

[Hamilton]

[xlizellx]

[restful-native]

Hello all, longtime lurker first time poster here. I work for a safety sensitive agency and come from a long line of civil servants born and raised in NYC, I hope to share a perspective from the inside looking out that some might find interesting. Most of the rules governing local safety sensitive agencies are said to be written in blood and/or money. If you break a rule, you are risking life/safety and/or risking your job if it opens up the possibility of litigation and/or negative press for the safety sensitive agency that you are employed by. Often, new rules are inspired by injury/death and/or lawsuits that old rules failed to protect the agency from being deemed responsible for. Relative to the responsibilities of the job, if one follows the rules one has a better chance of getting home in one piece and waking up the next day with a job that continues to provide financial means towards life support on all levels. There is a chain of command and protocol for all situations, emergency, and safety sensitive, or otherwise, that one is trained to follow. Some employees choose to diverge from training and break the rules, some do not. From self-preservation point of view, following the rules will not always protect your safety but will always protect your job and the continued financial life support of the immediate family you may have left behind.

With the lens as described above let us try and view the post shooting scene as previously described from the perspective of the officers on hand. As trained the officers or first responders have secured the scene, and the scene is safe for the EMTs who have been called to respond to, so that emergency medical assistance can be provided to the victim as required. This seems like the safest response to me. If I were an officer on hand and attempted to do the EMT’s job that I’m not prepared/trained for I might do more damage to the victim than good and I’m definitely putting my own safety at risk if the victim happens to be HIV positive and I have any open cuts that I might not be aware of under a rubber glove that might be defective.

It is surprising to me that the Police Officers did not pursue the armed perpetrator as alleged in the original post. Promotion to Detective can only be earned through job performance, as there is no internal written exams for this pay raise and highly sought after position. The quickest non political path to promotion to Detective is getting documentation on record that you were responsible for getting guns off the street. Uniformed Police Officers are usually tripping over each other to make a gun collar. Very strange indeed.

[King without a crown]

I agree with 95% of what you said, but your relying on a the validity of a poster, whose posts often revolve around himself and the smelling of his own farts.

[MHA]

Oy KWAC, thanks for that.

Anyway, I am happy to report that the shooter was found. Restful-Native, thanks for the alternative perspective. That helps to mitigate my own inital perspective somewhat.

Though there was no immediate chase, the cops apparently were able to determine who the perpetrator was and thankfully locate him. By my count this is the third shooting in 3 months. Wow.

[tsarina]

Just to add more fuel to the fire... I would like to respond to the comment that if a police officer was shot the medical help would be there quickey fast. I sure the hell hope so! We hire police officers and make them deal with all the worst of society, and put them in harms way every day. They deserve the best and fastest response in the event of an emergency because of what they do and because we expect them to deal with highly dangerous situations. Police officers lives are more valuable them somebody bleeding on the street after being shot in an arguement in front of a tattoo parlor. AND I dont care if the victim is black, white, yellow or green.
this was discussed last year when helicopters and patrol cars responded to officers in trouble on Nostrand and st. marks.

I know there is alot of animosity towards police officers by some people in this community, but I have noticed in this thread and previous threads that some people and quick to judge and question before they have all the information or can think of the situation from every perspective. Imagine what your job would be like if people jumped in your face and questioned everything you were doing while you were doing it. Would you calmly stop what you were doing to kindly explain procedures and protocals to to every guy on the street who questioned you? I think not.
Walk a mile in a policemans shoes and you'll get a better idea of the situation.

[Carnivore]