just got off the phone with someone, based in utah, who peppered me with a lot of questions about the yards project, and whether i agree that forest city ratner's doing a great thing for the slope and the community as a whole. i assume ratner's paying for the survey since many of the questions seemed tilted in his favor.. but i had some free time, and it was a very cathartic experience.
still, to be doing a survey like this, the developers must be really worried about something.
Karl the Druid on facebook i am now
Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 935 Location: nethermead
Mon Jul 26, 10 5:54 pm EST
have them call karl
karl is worried that reverend daughtry's
community-based prayer station
and bertha lewis' scategory kiosk
will never be built _________________ destination: roam
Last edited by Karl the Druid on Mon Jul 26, 10 5:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
apophis36 Regular
Joined: 08 Sep 2008 Posts: 71
Mon Jul 26, 10 5:55 pm EST
It could be Ratner...It could also be any number of other organizations (Media, random anti-eminent domain groups, etc)...It could even be a business looking to go into the area and curious about community opinion...Did you get the name of the polling company?
How tilted were the questions? Was it colbert-style like:
Describe your opinion of the arena. You must choose one option:
1. Its a good thing
2. Its a great thing
jeffrey blimp collector
Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 3521 Location: Prospect Lefferts Gardens
Mon Jul 26, 10 5:57 pm EST
Survey SAYS...
_________________ i extend my battery life by averting extreme injustice and inherent evil
Karl the Druid on facebook i am now
Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 935 Location: nethermead
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:00 pm EST
good answer
big money
good answer _________________ destination: roam
Karl the Druid on facebook i am now
Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 935 Location: nethermead
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:02 pm EST
Top 10 community benefits provided by forest city ratner...
audience? _________________ destination: roam
whynot_31 Benevolent dictator
Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 6160 Location: Prospect Heights
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:09 pm EST
So far? ...or what we realistically expect? _________________ Hey you! Enlighten up.
jeffrey blimp collector
Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 3521 Location: Prospect Lefferts Gardens
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:12 pm EST
*ding* 10. BLIGHT OF HAND _________________ i extend my battery life by averting extreme injustice and inherent evil
Karl the Druid on facebook i am now
Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 935 Location: nethermead
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:13 pm EST
both are not much to speak of
let's move into a 20 year projection
but stop at "when apes rule the planet once more" _________________ destination: roam
Last edited by Karl the Druid on Mon Jul 26, 10 6:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
jeffrey blimp collector
Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 3521 Location: Prospect Lefferts Gardens
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:14 pm EST
*ding* 9. SLOWER TRAFFIC (and lots of it) _________________ i extend my battery life by averting extreme injustice and inherent evil
whynot_31 Benevolent dictator
Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 6160 Location: Prospect Heights
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:22 pm EST
* ding * 8. Litter filled parking lot, in place of people using transit and affordable housing. _________________ Hey you! Enlighten up.
whynot_31 Benevolent dictator
Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 6160 Location: Prospect Heights
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:23 pm EST
* ding * 7. Part time "event" jobs that pay no benefits and are filled by temp firms. No living wage jobs for local residents, despite Acorn's selling out in exchange for promise of same. _________________ Hey you! Enlighten up.
jeffrey blimp collector
Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 3521 Location: Prospect Lefferts Gardens
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:25 pm EST
*ding* 6. A WINNING TEAM (Ratner & Co.) _________________ i extend my battery life by averting extreme injustice and inherent evil
jeffrey blimp collector
Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 3521 Location: Prospect Lefferts Gardens
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:26 pm EST
*ding* 5. THE CIRCUS (the whole process, really) _________________ i extend my battery life by averting extreme injustice and inherent evil
whynot_31 Benevolent dictator
Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 6160 Location: Prospect Heights
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:26 pm EST
* ding * 4. Overpriced sports events and performances that attract people from Long Island. Our very own Nassau Colliseum!
Karl the Druid on facebook i am now
Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 935 Location: nethermead
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:29 pm EST
"ding" 3. giving staten island and queens something to laugh about for at least 25 years _________________ destination: roam
whynot_31 Benevolent dictator
Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 6160 Location: Prospect Heights
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:31 pm EST
*ding* 2. Over taxed local police and fire department. Let's remember, when one includes the costs of building it and the almost free land, this thing is expected to be a net loss of tax dollars for years to come.
Jack Krohn My Baby's Gone Shootin'
Joined: 18 Dec 2005 Posts: 787 Location: Prospect Heights
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:33 pm EST
I've always found it amusing that those opposed to Ratner and the arena are forever falling back on the hackneyed line, "he must be afraid of something".
What could he possibly be afraid of? He's won the battle, a battle waged by incompetents like Karl, whose only "activism" is writing silly, childish posts on this blog. Or Daniel Goldstein, who snatched Ratner's money once the price was right. Or Norman Oder, who spent years criticizing the NYT, only to bend over once they offered him a chance to write an article. If we're lucky, he'll offer Karl a few dollars to publish a chapbook of the latter's exquisite, innnovative poetry.
Ratner has nothing to fear. The stadium is underway and no one or nothing (except perhaps Karl's *highly effective* community organizing), can stop it at this point.
But, just for fun, let's pretend that Ratner is cowering in fear from that mysterious thing that opponents always cite but can never name.
Carnivore Brooklyn Snark
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 13712 Location: St Johns Pl and Underhill
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:34 pm EST
*ding* 1. A slew of shitty sports bars ruining the local scene.
whynot_31 Benevolent dictator
Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 6160 Location: Prospect Heights
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:36 pm EST
Jack, you are correct. We are about to get an arena with a large parking lot.
....and little else.
One more to go people ....c'mon, big money, big money. _________________ Hey you! Enlighten up.
jeffrey blimp collector
Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 3521 Location: Prospect Lefferts Gardens
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:37 pm EST
*ding* (bonus round answer)
SEPTIC SHOCK (Gowanus Canal sewer station already overwhelmed) _________________ i extend my battery life by averting extreme injustice and inherent evil
Karl the Druid on facebook i am now
Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 935 Location: nethermead
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:37 pm EST
Jack Krohn wrote:
I've always found it amusing that those opposed to Ratner and the arena are forever falling back on the hackneyed line, "he must be afraid of something".
i'm impressed you found so many theme bars to frequent _________________ destination: roam
Karl the Druid on facebook i am now
Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 935 Location: nethermead
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:38 pm EST
bonus round...
can i call my life line? _________________ destination: roam
whynot_31 Benevolent dictator
Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 6160 Location: Prospect Heights
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:43 pm EST
Karl the Druid wrote:
bonus round...
can i call my life line?
Are you going to call the Capital Center, and the zero benefits it has brought to DC? (surrounded by lovely SE)
...or Atlantic City?
Who you gonna call? Bad Government Busters!
Karl the Druid on facebook i am now
Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 935 Location: nethermead
Mon Jul 26, 10 6:44 pm EST
the bp hot line was busy _________________ destination: roam
xlizellx Ninja
Joined: 10 Jul 2008 Posts: 855 Location: Park Place
I took the survey too and also think it was sponsored by Ratner. Whenever they asked whether finding out something positive e.g., about job creation changed my mind, I just responded that I didn't believe any of it (the good stuff) would happen.
antigone Regular
Joined: 12 Aug 2008 Posts: 190 Location: State Street, that great street
Tue Jul 27, 10 8:23 am EST
Ditto what oldsloper said. I took the survey and it was obviously sponsored by Ratner. I told the guy that I really shouldn't be taking the survey as my husband used to work for FCR and says the affordable housing phase of the project ain't never gonna happen. I told him my main concerns were traffic - which is already horrendous in my neighborhood, just west of Atlantic Center - and displacement of residents. I'm not bitterly opposed to the project as it's a done deal at this point but do I think it will be a plus for my neighborhood? Hell no. The only benefit that comes to mind is that it will hopefully employ people from the area.
Carnivore Brooklyn Snark
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 13712 Location: St Johns Pl and Underhill
Tue Jul 27, 10 8:51 am EST
This sounds like a push poll, not something genuinely intended to gather data.
shekb Newbie
Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 43
Tue Jul 27, 10 12:34 pm EST
whynot_31 wrote:
Are you going to call the Capital Center, and the zero benefits it has brought to DC? (surrounded by lovely SE)
I'm from DC and I'm confused. You mean the Cap Centre in Landover, or Magic Johnson's thing in Largo, or something else? Or Nats Park?
whynot_31 Benevolent dictator
Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 6160 Location: Prospect Heights
Tue Jul 27, 10 12:45 pm EST
shekb wrote:
whynot_31 wrote:
Are you going to call the Capital Center, and the zero benefits it has brought to DC? (surrounded by lovely SE)
I'm from DC and I'm confused. You mean the Cap Centre in Landover, or Magic Johnson's thing in Largo, or something else? Or Nats Park?
It seems I am the one who is confused.
....there was some arena thing built in the DC area that was supposed to bring great things the the local 'hood, but since it was build the neighborhood actually declined.
I forget which one it was. It was similar in that it was boondoggle where lots of tax payer money was spent to build a privately owned project. (the name and location might not be important).
....hopefully this AY thing will not turn out as bad as everyone thinks it will. I would LOVE to be wrong on this issue.
shekb Newbie
Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 43
Tue Jul 27, 10 6:09 pm EST
whynot_31 wrote:
It seems I am the one who is confused.
....there was some arena thing built in the DC area that was supposed to bring great things the the local 'hood, but since it was build the neighborhood actually declined.
I forget which one it was. It was similar in that it was boondoggle where lots of tax payer money was spent to build a privately owned project. (the name and location might not be important).
....hopefully this AY thing will not turn out as bad as everyone thinks it will. I would LOVE to be wrong on this issue.
Well, sounds the most like Nats Park, which brought an MLB team to the Anacostia river. It's not quite in SE, but it hasn't exactly delivered on economic promises made to the neighborhood. That could be because the overall decline in the economy made redevelopment a riskier prospect after it was completed. Or it could be because it simply had no potential to deliver on said promises in the first place.
Either way it's not analogous to AY, however you feel about it. AY is a transit hub, and the Nats Park location is a relative backwater; a lot of the handwringing over its construction centered on Metro's ability to deliver adequate public transit service to the area, which given AY's proximity to a major MTA hub should not be an issue. Parking, of course, is another matter entirely.
Also, Ratner clearly promised much, much more in the development phase than it finally agreed to build. Gehry? Affordable housing? Nonsense. Nats Park, in contrast, made hand-waving motions in the direction of the Metro stop, suggesting that there might be brisk development between said stop and the stadium, which would enrich the surrounding neighborhood.
Blah blah. I guess the point stands, that a stadium's development has an unproven ability to spur benefits, economic or otherwise, to its surroundings. I'm just saying that Nats Park and AY can't really be realistically compared.
AY could suck the life out of its surroundings while adding a lot of dead parking spaces and untold auto traffic, it could have no net effect, or it might be a boon. You could use any number of recent stadium development stories as cautionary tales or proofs positive. The fact is there are a lot of variables at work, and no study I'm aware of can definitively predict one outcome or another.
Personally, I'm skeptical about Ratner's claims and hopeful that the build won't cause much more damage than it already has (ie eminent domain seizures).
Karl the Druid on facebook i am now
Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 935 Location: nethermead
Tue Jul 27, 10 8:06 pm EST
telemarketer; 'atlantic yards will bring jobs and affordable housing to the new downtown... for everybody... do you like the nets arena now??'
karl; 'no'
telemarketer: 'do you like pie?
karl; 'yes''
telemarketer: 'do you like art?
karl; 'sometimes'
telemarketer: 'what if the nets arena came with free drawing of a pie?'
Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Posts: 510 Location: Prospect Place
Tue Jul 27, 10 11:01 pm EST
shekb wrote:
Personally, I'm skeptical about Ratner's claims and hopeful that the build won't cause much more damage than it already has (ie eminent domain seizures).
For the record, the Environmental Impact Statement downplayed the possibilities (you may prefer the word "lied") of lane closures on Flatbush. It turns out there will be a "temporary" closure of one lane on Flatbush between the bucolic block between Dean and Atlantic. Luckily, it's only temporary, which officially means 17 months.
Karl the Druid on facebook i am now
Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 935 Location: nethermead
Wed Jul 28, 10 6:53 pm EST
did you hear bruce's new cab message?
"this is bruce ratner reminding you buckle up brooklyn
it's going to be a very long and bumpy ride" _________________ destination: roam
squindar Local
Joined: 05 Nov 2008 Posts: 257 Location: OH YEAH
Thu Jul 29, 10 1:14 pm EST
I kind of miss those cab messages. I always meant to buy one of the message repeater thingees so I could use it to torture people but never got around to it.
hmm time to check ebay. _________________ I've used sarcasm before. It makes me feel really smart.
raulism Crabby Native
Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Posts: 510 Location: Prospect Place
Thu Jul 29, 10 5:03 pm EST
The last time there were phone surveys like this, it was 2006, which is the last time the Ratner crowd tried to put up a candidate against Velmanette Montgomery. For the people who were called, what is your State Senate district?
Velmanette's challenger is some hedge-fund guy, and he probably thinks that most people here love Ratner, and he wants to figure out what sort of love.
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