Another subway hike looming

Great news working folks:

Another fare hike; same crappy service and attitude.
And although this is the greatest city in America, if it rains, don't count on MTA.

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071010/BIZ/710100332

The MTA's proposals at a glance
The Metropolitan Transportation Authority is proposing to raise fares and tolls in 2008. Commuter rail fares increased an average of 5 percent in 2005 and an average of 25 percent in 2003. The base subway and bus fare went to $2 from $1.50 in 2003.



New York City Transit

The increase in bus and subway fares will depend in part on whether a peak/off-peak schedule is adopted.

30-day MetroCard: No higher than $84, from $76

14-day MetroCard (new): No higher than $48

Single ride: No higher than $2.25, from $2

Options 1 & 2 from the list, sort of. I will pay whatever it costs, because I have little alternative. That said, I'm not a socialist BUT (ah, here it comes) I believe that mass transit in NYC is fundamental and (dare I say it) fucking a requirement. As such, I fully believe that tax money should go directly into the system and support a fairly nominal fare for the users, $2 is certainly plenty. I'd like to see a $1 fare, in all honesty. This isn't Nebraska, and mass transit is not an option, it should be funded and encouraged. And not raised every four years, what a load of crap. I'd like to see a chart of rate hikes throughout history, and also one that was inflation adjusted. For curiosity. Anyone who thinks the fares should support the system is insane. Big time. BRING BACK THE NICKEL FARE!

Well, yeah. Taxes support free fares on the Staten Island Ferry.

lilbangladesh wrote: Well, yeah. Taxes support free fares on the Staten Island Ferry.

Not to mention free passage across the bridges for cars, and free or below-market parking on streets. Cars are subsidized by our government from the steel that goes into them, the wars that we fight to secure the gasoline that runs them, the maintenance on our highways, and so many other ways. People who ride public transportation should get a break for once. And if they raise fares to $2.50 now, they'll be breaking the basic rule of fare inflation: subway fare=cost of a slice of pizza.

Carnivore wrote: [quote=lilbangladesh]Well, yeah. Taxes support free fares on the Staten Island Ferry.

Not to mention free passage across the bridges for cars, and free or below-market parking on streets. Cars are subsidized by our government from the steel that goes into them, the wars that we fight to secure the gasoline that runs them, the maintenance on our highways, and so many other ways. People who ride public transportation should get a break for once. And if they raise fares to $2.50 now, they'll be breaking the basic rule of fare inflation: subway fare=cost of a slice of pizza.
#1 I think I love you.
#2 I buy dollar slices, so roll them back!

I don't know where you're buying your pizza. When I get slices, it's $3.50!

lilbangladesh wrote: I don't know where you're buying your pizza. When I get slices, it's $3.50!

Manhattan. Although Chicago60 next to us is hella cheap. And not very good, so I guess that one doesn't really count. And they don't sell slices. I hear Lasso on Kenmare and Mott has dollar slices during the day. I used to buy dollar slices at the place on 41st and 9th, but now I usually go to Trolley on 42nd between 8th and 9th. The place next door often has 89cent slices, but I tried them and it is definitely worth it to spring the extra dime for Trolley. Two big slices fill mah belly!

I think 2 bucks is about average right now for a regular slice.

lilbangladesh wrote: I don't know where you're buying your pizza. When I get slices, it's $3.50!

Carnivore wrote: I think 2 bucks is about average right now for a regular slice.

Fawkin yuppies!

And by the way, I _always_ take mass transit to and from my daily dollar slice experience. Except when I walk. A train at 42nd will dump you within a block of three different dollar slice establishments. And about 1million tourists if you hit it at the wrong time, doh!

$3.50 slices are a crime against humanity. Well, not really. But almost.
That must be a Sbarro slice, right?

Oh, and yeah, I agree with all of you: $2 is more than enough and when do we straphangers get a break? (The free rides on the unlimited MetroCards are nice but not enough.)

Compared to other international cities we have it really good. Base fare, no pay as far as you go shit and whatnot. I hate the idea of a fare hike, but the shit is still really cheap considering how fare you can go.

well.
pizzerias wayyy undercharge

and the MTA is a good value
and let's make sure this fare hike is warranted...
just too many of them lately

quijibo wrote: just too many of them lately

That's my problem with it. I mean, yeah, an $80+ monthly card ain't cheap, but it's cheaper than a monthly NJ Transit pass, and way cheaper than keeping a car. But I feel like they just increased the fare, and I can't believe this one will last long either.

I wouldn't have a problem with a fare hike if it wasn't so damn obvious that the MTA mismanages the funds they do have.

LeeHo is right, though. It still is a good value. Heck, any transportation other than car ownership is cheaper here than elsewhere. People bitched about the cab fare hike that happened recently, but even with that hike, it's still cheaper to take a cab here than elsewhere in the country. The taxi rates in Minneapolis are like twice ours.

I forget if it was the post or who, but someone ran a story that what they figured out they really needed was a $2.10 fare, except that their machines don't deal with dimes, so they rounded up to $2.25. Which sucks. And I further think that any comparison to other cities is futile, NYC should be a leader, not a follower. Just because it is better than xyz doesn't make it right or good.

daver wrote: I forget if it was the post or who, but someone ran a story that what they figured out they really needed was a $2.10 fare, except that their machines don't deal with dimes, so they rounded up to $2.25. Which sucks. And I further think that any comparison to other cities is futile, NYC should be a leader, not a follower. Just because it is better than xyz doesn't make it right or good.

I heard something like that as well...the MTA is also making it about the ticket/ card dispensing machines in the subway as one major reason for the fare hike. hey, THEY installed the damned things, not us.

They are saying the ticket machines are what is making the system more expensive. they are limited to how much they can accept also and they rounded UP to make the machines able to accept more $$ with less coins, etc. (to be able to accept, say, 2,000 quarters instead of 2,000 nickels, etc.).The whole thing sounds fishy and like a big excuse.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/09/26/2007-09-26_mta_blames_vending_machines_for_25cent_f-5.html

MTA blames vending machines for 25-cent fare hike plan

BY PETE DONOHUE
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Wednesday, September 26th 2007, 2:19 PM

Jisele Lazo, of Queens, was outraged by the possibility that the MTA may raise the fare by 25 cents to accommodate its vending machines.

Jisele Lazo, of Queens, was outraged by the possibility that the MTA may raise the fare by 25 cents to accommodate its vending machines.

The MTA can't nickel-and-dime straphangers - but it has no problem taking their quarters.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority acknowledged yesterday that one BIG reason it wants a 25-cent bus and subway hike is because its vending machines can dispense only dollar coins and quarters.

MTA spokesman Jeremy Soffin defended the increase as fair and said upping it by a nickel or dime wouldn't be enough.

"The limitations of technology would make a $2.10 fare extremely costly to implement and would provide a much poorer quality of service," Soffin said.

Transit advocates and straphangers said the public is getting shortchanged - again.

"It's not acceptable for them to say, 'The machines are making us do it,'" said Gene Russianoff of the Straphangers Campaign. "What are they going to [do] if next time they think there should be a 35-cent hike? Round it off to 50 cents and make us pay?"

Riders weren't buying it.

"It's an outrage," said Anthony Thompson, a Queens engineer. "Our money is being spent because of a hardware defect?"

Recruiter Jisele Lazo, 22, of Queens, said: "It stinks. Why don't they just leave it at $2? Why are they making it easier for the machines? There are far more commuters than machines."

Bethann Miale, a video artist from Brooklyn, suspected the authority was making a "scapegoat" out of the equipment. "It's ridiculous. They really just want to raise the fare."

Soffin said smaller change would mean longer lines and riders being saddled with pockets full of silver.

He said the size of the fare hike was not unreasonable because the $2 base fair had remained steady since 2003.

A 25-cent jump would amount to a "cost-of-living" increase for the system, Soffin said.

A rider buying a single-ride ticket priced at $2.10 with a $5 bill would be carting away 11 quarters and three nickels, or 58 nickels, he pointed out.

The machines also would likely run out of change more quickly, have to be filled more often and likely need more frequent maintenance, he said.

Out-of-service machines would result in longer lines at token booths, he said, estimating the added costs to be millions of dollars.

The MTA, and independent fiscal watchdogs agree, says it faces a fiscal crisis with budget deficits well north of $1 billion starting to hit in 2009. It must raise fares next year to get back on sound financial ground.

MTA CEO Elliot Sander, appearing at an NYC Transit award ceremony for transit workers yesterday, said he knows a fare hike will be a burden for riders. He said NYC Transit needs the money to keep the system safe and reliable.

One option they are considering is the peak/ off peak fares like they have in Washington D.C. this might make sense, but would kill the NYC subway as we know it. the greatest thing about the subway was that you could go anywhere in the city for one fare.

One benefit employees should start asking for ( if they don't have it) is an unlimited monthly subway pass from MTA...I think it is tax deductable for them. Do any of you get that from your employersalready?

Or can you use your subway expense as a tax write-off with the business you have? Just curious.

Well, I keep my receipts for the monthly passes because if I make more than a certain amount of money as an actor, it becomes tax deductible.

I think peak fares wouldn't work here. I don't even know how you can begin to implement this. How would it work with unlimited cards, for instance. You can't get on the subway at certain hours of the day unless you buy a peak unlimited? I just don't think it's feasible. Plus, it's really unfair because most people have no choice as to when they must commute.

lilbangladesh wrote: Well, I keep my receipts for the monthly passes because if I make more than a certain amount of money as an actor, it becomes tax deductible.

I think peak fares wouldn't work here. I don't even know how you can begin to implement this. How would it work with unlimited cards, for instance. You can't get on the subway at certain hours of the day unless you buy a peak unlimited? I just don't think it's feasible. Plus, it's really unfair because most people have no choice as to when they must commute.

Unlimited would be unlimited, use it whenever. It would only affect the dollar folks. And it is real and on the table right now. I would support it, because when faced with paying $2.25 ALL the time, or $2.25 MOST of the time, but occasionally $1.50, I'll take the latter. Except that I am unlimited, so it doesn't matter to me. Except that they are planning to jack the cost of the unlimited a little extra if they go with the peak plan. Which I am willing to pay, because the percentage is still lower than the $2->$2.25 raise.

Well, in Minneapolis, they have unlimited bus passes, but you have to pay extra if you want to get on the bus during peak times, unless you shell out the money to get a unlimited peak pass.

Definitely THAT wouldn't work here.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/20/nyregion/20cnd-fare.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Spitzer Calls for M.T.A. to Keep Base Fare at $2
Hiroko Masuike for The New York Times

From left, Elliot G. Sander, the chief executive of the M.T.A; Gov. Eliot Spitzer; and H. Dale Hemmerdinger, the chairman of the authority, at a news conference on fares on Tuesday.

Article Tools Sponsored By
By ANAHAD O'CONNOR and ANDREW TANGEL
Published: November 20, 2007

New York State Gov. Eliot Spitzer announced today that he was calling on the Metropolitan Transportation Authority to throw out a controversial proposal to raise subway and bus fares and to keep the base fare at $2 per ride.

At a news conference in midtown this morning, Mr. Spitzer said that under a new plan, the agency would still be able to raise some fares, including the cost of weekly and monthly bus and subway MetroCards, commuter railroad fares, and bridge and tunnel tolls. But he said that an unexpected increase of $220 million in the agency’s budget forecast should enable it to forego its plan to raise the base fare next year from $2 per ride to $2.25.

“Based on the current economic climate that has so many New Yorkers feeling squeezed, it seemed only proper that this amount be returned to the riders,” he said. “I am therefore calling on the M.T.A. to use these funds to reduce the proposed fare and toll increases.”

Mr. Spitzer was joined at the news conference by the M.T.A.’s chairman and chief executive, who said that the agency had agreed to reduce the increase. The agency said in a statement that it was prompted to make the decision by feedback from public hearings and the unexpected boost in its balance sheet, which it said came in part from a one percent jump in anticipated ridership and money it saved on service costs. The proposal must still be approved by the M.T.A.’s 17-member board. H. Dale Hemmerdinger, the agency chairman, said he intended to work with the board so a decision could be reached in December.

“I believe this is a compromise that helps our customers without compromising our fiduciary responsibility,” he said. “And I look forward to discussing it further with my fellow board members.”

Mr. Spitzer said he believed that the extra money in the M.T.A.’s balance sheet would help it lower an overall increase of 6.5 percent in its entire fare structure. The agency’s fare hike proposal had called for a series of regular, inflation-indexed fare increases every two years, with the first of those proposed for 2010. The M.T.A. had also announced a plan to introduce a new 14-day discounted MetroCard, and said it would consider offering an additional discounted rate to bus and subway riders during off-peak hours.

The authority initially said it needed to impose the fare hike because its expenditures — including debt and employee health care costs — were rising much faster than its income. But the proposal was met with harsh resistance from many riders who showed up at public hearings, and a number of legislators asked the agency to hold off on the hike until April 15 so the Legislature could have more time to find other sources of revenue.

Mr. Spitzer included no specific details for other rate increases in his announcement this morning. Elliot G. Sander, the M.T.A.’s executive director and chief executive, said a $1.50 off-peak fare “is still a possibility,” though the agency has yet to make specific proposals and weigh riders’ input.

The announcement today by Mr. Spitzer could help his public standing. It comes barely a week after he abandoned a plan to give driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants — a proposal that brought him relentless criticism and controversy.

In response to a reporter’s question, Mr. Spitzer denied that his announcement — two days before the Thanksgiving holiday — was timed politically to improve his fortunes in Albany.

“This has nothing to do with anything other than when the numbers from the M.T.A. were generated,” he said, adding that officials have aimed for transparency when calculating rate increases.

Jeez...they just "found a couple hundred million dollar surplus".

It boggles my mind that the MTA can get away with the set of double book and other accounting shenanigans.

Wait, but isn't that "surplus" really projected funds that they expect to receive from the state?

The state still hasn't decided how much they are going to fund the MTA, yet the MTA was going ahead and trying to raise fares on projections.

It's like a battle of psychics here.

"We project that the state will only fund us to this level, so we must raise fares."

"We project that we will fund you to the point where raising fares is unnecessary."

And the state budget hasn't been nailed down yet. Until that happens, you can't believe what you read in the press.

lilbangladesh wrote: Wait, but isn't that "surplus" really projected funds that they expect to receive from the state?

The state still hasn't decided how much they are going to fund the MTA, yet the MTA was going ahead and trying to raise fares on projections.

It's like a battle of psychics here.

"We project that the state will only fund us to this level, so we must raise fares."

"We project that we will fund you to the point where raising fares is unnecessary."

And the state budget hasn't been nailed down yet. Until that happens, you can't believe what you read in the press.

They've already announced that the hike isn't going to happen (no guarantees on the cost of unlimited ride cards, though).

http://www.mta.info/mta/news/releases/?en=071219-HQ81

Fare hike went through. Not as bad as originally planned, but all fares except the single ride are going up. And planned service improvements (other than some improvements to the L and the 7) are delayed until March.

Approving a fare hike AND delaying improvements? Bwah?

When someone next asks me what the definition of chutzpah is, I'm showing them my Metrocard. :roll:

Must you post on every thread?

Must you be rude?