copters are back

Very scary - we were on Washington Avenue at a restaurant and it was
sheer chaos. We walked through the block party earlier
that night and were surprised that we didn't see one
police officer. This was a large crowd - the biggest
we've seen in years - and there didn't seem to be
anyone in charge. The cops were totally caught off guard
(or so it appeared to us).

After the gunshots, it was frightening
to say the least. We're curious: why did the copter buzz
the neighborhood for over an hour?

...the crowd was likely left over from the block party that occured all day on St Johns btwn Underhill and Washington.

wasn't someone shot or killed on classon and st. john's recently, too? there's one of those camera towers at the corner. i know it's not technically PH but for those of us who live on washington it's on our way home from the train.

2 found shot to death in Brooklyn
BY DANIEL EDWARD ROSEN | Special to Newsday
1:48 PM EDT, July 19, 2009
Two Brooklyn men were found shot to death inside a parked car following an altercation at a block party in Prospect Heights Saturday night.

New York City police discovered the two men sitting in a parked Chevy Caprice on Washington Avenue and St. John's Place after responding to a call of shots fired at 10:15 p.m., according to a police report.

Vance Rock, 23, of Prospect Heights was found with a gunshot wound to the head. Darrian Delk, 19, of Bushwick was found with a gunshot wound to his torso. Both were pronounced dead on arrival to King's County Hospital.

Before the shooting, Rock and Delk were involved in an altercation with other people at the block party, according to a police spokesman. Police do not have any suspects at this time.

http://www.newsday.com/services/newspaper/printedition/monday/news/ny-nydead2012984769jul19,0,5428944.story

I walked by that block party earlier in the day and that sound system looked out of control. Sorry to hear that the party escalated and ended in this way. This is certainly going to perpetuate some stereotypes.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=6922775

One wonders if this will be the last block party Mike Jones has on St Johns Pl for some time.

GOD wrote: One wonders if this will be the last block party Mike Jones has on St Johns Pl for some time.

Should be the last, but I expect it won't be.

It was just on Fox news (am too tired to wait until 11!). They showed the Caprice - it was blue. Said shooters took off on motorcycles.

I hope we never have another block party again! It should be BANNED!!! Funny how the police are NOW patrolling the neighborhood. Too little, too late!

Its an election year

I was possibly the annoying purple rain neighbor, ha!

....and feel really bad about the shooting.....

Subject: Block Party security?

Why wasn't security provided at an event of this size? What was the city thinking when they issued a permit without providing some kind of police presence or why didn't they require the organizers to do so??? How tragic and disheartening. I think we should all write or call Letitia James and try to make sure this doesn't happen again. And FYI, guys on motorcycles peeled out with their tires to burn marks in the road somewhere near St Johns and Washington late last night.

Subject: Re: Block Party security?

d-miriam wrote: What was the city thinking when they issued a permit without providing some kind of police presence or why didn't they require the organizers to do so???

They had a permit?

Subject: Get involved

I agree, why was an event this large allowed without a security/police presence. Regardless, if you want to write a letter or get involved to try and prevent further issues, I think it is best to involve the local politicos. Specifically Eric Adams because:
1. His Chief of Staff, Ingrid Lewis-Martin, is a no bull kinda woman and will get things done.
2. He is former law enforcement.
3. After all that has been happening in the State Senate, they owe us a favor

Here is Eric's info:
572 Flatbush Avenue
Brooklyn, New York 11225
Phone: (718) 284-4700
Fax: (718) 282-3585

Also, should reach out to Hakeem.

Not sure if they had a permit, but if they didnt, the responsible party should be found and held accountable. They did have "No Parking Saturday" signs that claimed to be put up by the police, but I think thats highly unlikely.

I'm all for community around here, but not at the cost of life or limb.

gothamist is reporting it now too: http://gothamist.com/2009/07/20/prospect_heights_double_murder_two.php

Even if they did have a permit there should be SOME police presence for a gathering of that size.

i find it hard to believe that there was ZERO police presence.

From my limited experience organizing block parties the past 3 years, I think:

All neighborhood block parties require a permit from the local Community Board to insure that too many block parties don't occur on the same day in the same area, and could then impair NYPD, FDNY and emergency agency response times. This also avoids major traffic problems in the area.

If a permit is issued, then the block party organizers must coordinate with the local police precinct (to get the "No Parking" signs) and MTA about the street closure to insure that busses are rerouted, if necessary, and the NYPD/FDNY knows not to try to drive through the block in an emergency.

I don't believe that the organizers have to have security, as most block parties are pretty tame events. So, I would be hesitant to blame the organizers for this tragedy.

There is no security requirement for block parties at all. Usually in order to get a permit, the PD must give their approval. If a block has had a significant number of incidents (shootings, serious drug activity, etc) the PD won't sign off on giving a permit period. If a block is quiet, its usually fairly easy to get a permit.

The block I live on has had a high number of incidents including a block party several years ago that required a significant number (50-100) of uniformed police to shut down the party at the end of the night. Since that time we have only been approved for permits to have "health fairs" which end at 5pm rather than at 9pm which is when a normal block party permit expires. The health fairs also do not allow amplified music (essentially, you can have radios, but not huge speaker columns blasting music) which does a lot to reduce the attraction for teens and young adults.

The failure to require a police presence has more to do with the fact that there isn't any rhyme or reason as to what the turnout will be. A block party could have a couple of hundred people over the course of the day, vs. these events where over a thousand people show up. Given the way this was advertised, perhaps problems should have been anticipated, but a bigger question is whether the cops even had any idea after the party started that it had gotten as large and had as much potential for problems as actually occurred?

This block party has never been "tame." For as far back as I can remember it's always been much larger, louder, and rowdier than the typical block party, and many more people attend than just the block residents. So yes, security might have been a good idea. And surely the police know the history of the party so maybe there should have been more police presence. Whether any of that would have prevented this shooting... who knows.

The reason I am dubious about permitting on this block party is as follows:

I have seen plenty of street events in this area and when roads are closed off there is usually a wooden blue police barrier manned by officers. This block party appeared to me to have blocked off the road with trucks.

sir_eccles wrote: The reason I am dubious about permitting on this block party is as follows:

I have seen plenty of street events in this area and when roads are closed off there is usually a wooden blue police barrier manned by officers. This block party appeared to me to have blocked off the road with trucks.

That's not unusual. Drive around on a Saturday and you'll see a lot of cars blocking streets where block parties are suposed to occur. Actually, the cops comming and dropping off the blue barricades is unusual for a block party.

homeowner wrote: If a block has had a significant number of incidents (shootings, serious drug activity, etc) the PD won't sign off on giving a permit period.

If that's true (and I don't doubt it), then I'm really surprised that this party had a permit. This block of St. Johns is sketchy.

Also, a sound system that can be heard (and felt) blocks away should not be allowed.

I totally agree about the sound systems. They don't belong on residential streets. I have had issues with the Lincoln bet Washington & Underhill block party, which has not happened for a couple of years now.

I was forced to flee my apartment when some jack hole set up a huge system under my windows. In a letter to a local official, I likened being involuntarily subjected to this kind of noise to the torture meted out to the Guantanamo Bay terror suspects.

The noise is intolerable, what about elderly people who cannot get away from it? Why are these organizers so selfish? It seems that a criminal element is attracted to these noisy events. I hope there are no permits given out for block parties in my neighbourhood for years to come.

I have lived here for almost 35 years and the 'wild wild west' culture has yet to subside, despite all the pretty little people moving in here.

I think contacting Eric Adams is an excellent idea.

And the story made the Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/20/nyregion/20car.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion

I saw the car in the neighborhood a few times.
It definitely stands out.

ditto. I've seen it around ...if it is the one I'm thinking of, it is supershiny, and it has those antenna things near each wheel that make noise when you get near a curb.