Bob and Betty's 2

According to another neighborhood blog, the Pioneer on Franklin east of Eastern Parkway will be another Bob and Betty's. I think the store has been closed for a few weeks and there is a dumpster outside.

Looking for confirmation.... Doesn't the owner post here? Nudge nudge.

Yes - totally true. I heard it'll be open this month.

Yup. I've jabbered with Tony, the owner.

Thanks for the confirmation.

I've tried to like B&B's, but anyone that tries to sell $9 frozen pizzas in Brooklyn should be publicly shamed.

#1. it' s hard to get east of eastern parkway. north and south is much easier. especially at Franklin.

#2 ah but what kind of frozen pizza? I'm sure it was good pizza at least.

B&B's came thru for me in an emergency crisis situation when I needed dried shitaki mushrooms. Other places said they didnt have dried mushrooms and offered plain white mushrooms yechhh!! Tried other places only B&B had them. (of course they still sit unopened here, but that is another story, ) They were there when I needed them.

Hurray for Tony and his store of pleasures! happy new year everyone!

WhyFi said:

I've tried to like B&B's, but anyone that tries to sell $9 frozen pizzas in Brooklyn should be publicly shamed.

There is a market for high-end items like that on Franklin now, and Tony is exploiting it. Good for him. His family has owned and operated that grocery store location since the late 60's/early 70's, and he himself has worked there from the time he was 8 yrs old on. If someone is willing to spend $9 for a frozen pizza, or $16 for a craft beer six pack, why shouldn't Tony reap the benefits? I'm happier its him rather than some one new to the neighborhood.

ntfool said:

I'm happier its him rather than some one new to the neighborhood.

Exactly.

And I must say, some of their prices are good -- $10 for Brooklyn Sarachi Ace? Yes please. $3.99 for Silk Soy Milk all the time without tracking sales? Sounds good to me.

And they have things I can't get other places. If I was ever suddenly in the need to entertain, I know I can run down there, get some good cheese, some nice crackers, some fruit, and some local pickles or other spreads.

Since when is Red Baron a friggin' high-end item?

If no Red Barron pizza is sold for $9, it will likely be replaced with another item.

Grocery freezer space is a valuable thing.

Obviously, but just thinking that they could pawn that off on their customers speaks poorly of their opinion of their customers, IMO.

I agree that assuming all customers are less than savvy is a bad business practice.

However, when you look on the bright side of this, he is offering something for everyone ....even those who make decisions we would not, and seem to be far from savvy.

I think the interesting topic is the expansion south of eastern parkway. Maybe Red Barron will be cheaper on this side....

Seriously, is this the beginning of Franklin ave changes extending south?

Thoughts?

Well, it makes perfect sense. The same reasons why Franklin is booming north of Eastern apply to the south, and the rents and real estate prices have yet to catch up down there. I just saw a four-fam with driveway and garage for under $700k on Carroll and Franklin the other day.

I imagine if Fisher doesn't own the building, he's probably not paying too much for the space at this point, but that won't last long.

Lots of changes have already happened south of EP.

For example, on regular walks with my my dog, I have noticed that a micro neighborhood exists below the school complexes. It has three sides:

Side 1: Washington Ave, between Carroll and the shuttle tracks (the shuttle goes under Washington just before Empire)

Side 2: The shuttle tracks, between a Washington and Carroll.

Side 3: Carroll, between shuttle tracks and Washington.

Google map to see where I am talking about

On my regular walks with my dog, I have noticed that this triangle is largely composed of:

-well maintained, owner occupied, co-op buildings

-almost zero street level drug dealing and very little litter.

Basically, it is an area that I would not mind living in.

Are the present residents "rich"? No, but they do strike me as having more income than their neighbors on the eastern side of the shuttle tracks, and (despite their greater income) they have the same, limited grocery choices in their immediate area:

a. Western Beef at the corner of Washington and Empire, which involves crossing Empire and does not focus on organics.

b. The Associated at Franklin and Carroll, which does not focus on organics.

Because of a difference in housing stock (rent stabilized tenements and high rises VS prewar co-ops), the area immediately around Franklin may remain unchanged. However, I think the many of the residents of this triangle I describe will gladly walk a little eastward to Bob and Betty's 2.

In short, I think Tony will do fine based on the area's existing residents. ...he won't need further neighborhood change to survive.

I agree that the neighborhood is both nice enough to live in and underserved when it comes to retail.

I wish Tony all the best.

We have been waiting a long time for changes to the south side of EP. Not sure B&B2 will be the tide-turner, but it will be welcome by me. Also not sure about the folks who hang on those corners- they like to keep it real. Hipsters have money for drugs, though!

Anyone who tries to BUY frozen pizza in Brooklyn should be shamed - publicly and privately.

Show me a person that thinks Brooklyn is a pizza Mecca and I'll show you a person that hasn't gotten out of the city enough.

C'mon now. While Long Island and northern Jersey certainly have their fair share of good pizza, the five boroughs clearly have the best. What do you like, New England style? Pfft.

spurn knows pizza.

I just hope that Tony puts a coffee shop in as well...FYi, this thread got picked up in brownstoner.

Tony! You're missing all your free press opportunities.

http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2012/01/bob-and-bettys-expanding-south-on-franklin/?stream=true

ntfool said:

C'mon now. While Long Island and northern Jersey certainly have their fair share of good pizza, the five boroughs clearly have the best.

Gimme a break - in a borough (or we can even expand it to the whole city) of millions, the VAST majority of pizza shops are mediocre at best and many are worse. Only a small, small handful are inspired, but they're exceedingly rare (such as DiFara's) and/or expensive (such as Franny's). While there are exceptional pizzas to be had in BK, the average effort is poor.

Well, it makes perfect sense. The same reasons why Franklin is booming north of Eastern apply to the south, and the rents and real estate prices have yet to catch up down there. I just saw a four-fam with driveway and garage for under $700k on Carroll and Franklin the other day.

The reason the building is so cheap is because it likely needs about $400K worth of work. I live across the street and looked into buying one that was on the market a few years ago and it was going for $800K. I'm sure they could have gotten that at the height of the market, but with having to rebuild the garage (almost all of the garages behind those building are in horrible condition), update all the mechanicals, repair bricks, redo the stairs...I was looking at north of $400K worth of work. Wasn't worth it.

b. The Associated at Franklin and Carroll, which does not focus on organics.

I would not call Tony focusing on organics either. Also, that Associated does stock basic organic products that sell.

Ishtar said:

b. The Associated at Franklin and Carroll, which does not focus on organics.

I would not call Tony focusing on organics either. Also, that Associated does stock basic organic products that sell.

True.

When I think about it, I'm actually using "organics" as a short hand to describe high quality, attractively displayed groceries.

The buyers tend to preparing a meal for themselves, and maybe their partner; This is the segment of the market that Tony seems to be now focusing on.

Whereas Western Beef is focusing on providing groceries to those with large families, whom are less able to purchase (or have less of a preference for) food that is attractively displayed in small portions.

WhyFi said:

Gimme a break - in a borough (or we can even expand it to the whole city) of millions, the VAST majority of pizza shops are mediocre at best and many are worse. Only a small, small handful are inspired, but they're exceedingly rare (such as DiFara's) and/or expensive (such as Franny's). While there are exceptional pizzas to be had in BK, the average effort is poor.

Sounds like you just don't like NY-style pizza: the greasy and foldable kind.

Is that NY-style pizza? Greasy and foldable?

I thought greasy and foldable was garbage-style pizza?

And that NY-style pizza was wood oven or coal oven, a la Motorino, Patsy's/Grimaldi's, Frannys, Giuseppina's, Lucali, DeFaro, Totonno, etc.?

I thought greasy and foldable was garbage-style pizza?

+1

That's what I grew up with in NJ, and I assume its prevalence in NYC is due to the B&T crowd's late-night drunken munchies.

I assume its prevalence in NYC is due to the B&T crowd's late-night drunken munchies.

Don't disregard the drunken munchies of the hoards of NYU zombies in lower Manhattan.

I think all people who are out late and are intoxicated, will settle for sub par pizza.

If I were a restaurant who (for economic reasons) was forced to serve them, I would see no reason to make my product be at par, much less above par.

I'm not disparaging the commercial sense of the hawkers of sub-standard pizza.

I'm just opposed to those rationalizing it as reasonable, standard, or even desirable.