10 Years of Muddy Waters (Split from the Joyce Bakery thread

[editor's note: these comments started popping up in a thread about Muddy Waters, the coffee shop across the street from the new Joyce Bakeshop. We now join our regularly scheduled thread, already in progress...]

Gorilla coffee??? Thank God! Now I don't have to walk 3 long blocks for my crack coffee fix! I only have to walk one short block! drive muddy waters out!

Pulsivism, you raise an excellent point. Will this drive the evil Muddy Waters out of business?

I've never stepped foot in that place after hearing all of the horror stories about the owner's rude behavior. If there's any truth to them, I'm sure that her departure won't be much of a loss.

I was actually thinking I'd feel bad going in there and not going to Muddy Waters (though I certainly will). I don't go in there much, but the owner lady, despite her reputation on these boards, is always extremely nice to me. I think I've heard other people say the same thing. Regardless, from the looks of those baked goods, I'll probably be spending some time at Joyce. I wonder if it'll be just a take out place or if you can like sit down and enjoy your union jack brownies in the store.

teddyballgame wrote: I was actually thinking I'd feel bad going in there and not going to Muddy Waters (though I certainly will). I don't go in there much, but the owner lady, despite her reputation on these boards, is always extremely nice to me. I think I've heard other people say the same thing. Regardless, from the looks of those baked goods, I'll probably be spending some time at Joyce. I wonder if it'll be just a take out place or if you can like sit down and enjoy your union jack brownies in the store.

Sit down or not, from the looks of the pics, I'll have my purchase consumed before I exit anyway...

teddyballgame wrote: I was actually thinking I'd feel bad going in there and not going to Muddy Waters (though I certainly will). I don't go in there much, but the owner lady, despite her reputation on these boards, is always extremely nice to me. I think I've heard other people say the same thing. Regardless, from the looks of those baked goods, I'll probably be spending some time at Joyce. I wonder if it'll be just a take out place or if you can like sit down and enjoy your union jack brownies in the store.

I've never had any problem with the Muddy Waters lady, although the coffe isn't so great there.

muddy waters is the worst

the women who owns the place just has a really bad attitude.


ive given that place atleast 3 chances and each time i get that same "fuck you" vibe from her.

its going to be real nice to finally have an alternative thats just around the corner.

now if they only had bagels i wouldn't have to troop all the way down to bergen sunday morning and miss the beginning of meet the press.

Carnivore wrote:
I've never had any problem with the Muddy Waters lady, although the coffe isn't so great there.

Us neither. The housespouse has a predilection for their mochas. Maybe it's one look for the gentrifiers, another for the old timers
But definitely lknfwd2 trying the Joyce choice.

damn sissies whining about the service at muddy waters! this is nyc - get used to dealing with some odd characters! you will laugh at the soup nazi on seinfeld, but encounter a real-live personality and you go running for your mommies.

the legit complaint about muddy waters is the furnishings - the place is a disaster. don't know why she can't figure out how to make it more appealing and comfortable. get rid of the mountains of papers and dog coats for sale!

i'm disappointed with joyce's - would take a fresh baguette over a $2.50 cupcake any day.

i thought this thread had moved past the muddy waters dis, but as long as it's still going i'm happy to pile on.

i've been there twice and each time it took more than 20 minutes to get a coffee. i could have gone to a store, bought whole beans, brought them home, ground them, and made my own in that time.

i went back the second time to give them a second chance in case the first experience was a fluke. it wasn't.

granted this was some time ago (several years probably), but i've had no interest in going back since.

bring on joyce.

i was so excited that today was opening day (cupcake day!) but then i saw the sign that it will be wednesday. they took the paper off the windows though and it looks real cute inside. lots of seating.

this raises the question: how long do we give muddy waters? assuming that this place will kick MW's ass in atmosphere, food, and -- one would HAVE to assume -- attitude? if we were talking about any other place besides MW, i would say not long. but we have already seen MW close and then rise again from the dead. you just can't kill it.

thoughts??

sarahb wrote: i was so excited that today was opening day (cupcake day!) but then i saw the sign that it will be wednesday. they took the paper off the windows though and it looks real cute inside. lots of seating.

this raises the question: how long do we give muddy waters? assuming that this place will kick MW's ass in atmosphere, food, and -- one would HAVE to assume -- attitude? if we were talking about any other place besides MW, i would say not long. but we have already seen MW close and then rise again from the dead. you just can't kill it.

thoughts??

If Joyce sells bagels with tomato and cream cheese for less than $7, I give MW about 5 minutes.

I agree, but I've tried several times over several years...every experience the same.

WHAT NOW!? YOU WANT A WHAT? A NAPKIN?

jgregorie wrote: muddy waters is the worst

the women who owns the place just has a really bad attitude.


ive given that place atleast 3 chances and each time i get that same "fuck you" vibe from her.

its going to be real nice to finally have an alternative thats just around the corner.

now if they only had bagels i wouldn't have to troop all the way down to bergen sunday morning and miss the beginning of meet the press.

Muddy Waters is now driving a brand new sporty bmw. ?????? :roll:

Parrothead I saw her too. Pulled up in it last Staurday morning. Watched her get out of it and proceed to unlock her gate. Brand new 2 seater coupe. Still had temp license plates. I guess business isn't that bad.

This is my first post here: I've noticed skimming this thread that people don't like Muddy Waters... I don't really drink coffee myself, and I've heard theirs is awful, but is there some other reason that I don't know about?

It's sort of a mystery to me, too, but people seem to think that she's really rude:

http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=325

Personally, after reading all these stories, I've avoided the place too (but then again, I almost never go out for coffee, so that's not saying much).

At one point, we were going to do a DH field-trip/pre-happy hour to Muddy Waters to experience the lunacy en masse, but for some reason it never happened. I think the place closes to early for enough of us to get there on time, or something.

Subject: true story

ha muddy waters lady in a new beamer. that place pulls in what maybe $75 a day.

i always see lots of black people around the neighborhood in luxury cars.
at first i thought are all these people rich?

then one day about 4 months ago i saw the mail-lady ( who i guess was filling in for the usual mail man that day ) pulling her mail bag out of the back of a brand new mercedes SUV.

1st off why would someone use there personal car to do there mail rout? and there is no way a mail carrier could afford a brand new mercedes.

some people just have different priorities when it come to money i guess.

oh and as a PC disclaimer yes i do realize there are many black people in brooklyn who are successful in the business world and can afford and a have every right to own a luxury car.

just something ive noticed.

So, I just walked by Muddy Waters, and they have a new sign:

SERVICING PROSPECT HEIGHTS FOR 10 YEARS

:shock: Wow, if I'd known I could've gotten "serviced" by going there, maybe I'd've tried it earlier! :twisted:

C'mon, you've gotta use HTML and set the width of an image this big! -EmilyM

EmilyM wrote: So, I just walked by Muddy Waters, and they have a new sign:

SERVICING PROSPECT HEIGHTS FOR 10 YEARS

:shock: Wow, if I'd known I could've gotten "serviced" by going there, maybe I'd've tried it earlier! :twisted:

they close really early for servicing. I mean, I'm single and I don't really start wondering "where can I get serviced?" until around 10 p.m., long after they've shut their gates. I guess I'll have to consider getting serviced while the sun's up - something I heard was only for ppl in LTRs.

Subject: Re: true story

jgregorie wrote: ha muddy waters lady in a new beamer. that place pulls in what maybe $75 a day.

i always see lots of black people around the neighborhood in luxury cars.
at first i thought are all these people rich?

then one day about 4 months ago i saw the mail-lady ( who i guess was filling in for the usual mail man that day ) pulling her mail bag out of the back of a brand new mercedes SUV.

1st off why would someone use there personal car to do there mail rout? and there is no way a mail carrier could afford a brand new mercedes.

some people just have different priorities when it come to money i guess.

oh and as a PC disclaimer yes i do realize there are many black people in brooklyn who are successful in the business world and can afford and a have every right to own a luxury car.

just something ive noticed.

you can throw in all the pc disclaimers you like. yours is a racist post and if I knew who you were i'd punch you in the mouth. it's people like you keep neighborhoods lilke PH from reaching they're potential.

Subject: Re: true story

Midas wrote:
you can throw in all the pc disclaimers you like. yours is a racist post and if I knew who you were i'd punch you in the mouth. it's people like you keep neighborhoods lilke PH from reaching they're potential.

... because the only constructive response to perceived racism is violence.

Subject: Re: true story

Midas wrote: if I knew who you were i'd punch you in the mouth. it's people like you keep neighborhoods lilke PH from reaching they're potential.

it's grammar like yours that keeps languages like ours from reaching their full potential.

ANGER+LANGUAGE ABUSE: TOGETHER4EVER!

whatever

Wait a minute - 10 YEARS of Muddy Waters? That can't possibly be true. That place wasn't even on the radar until, what, 2002?

it's def. been there since 98

dailyheights wrote: Wait a minute - 10 YEARS of Muddy Waters? That can't possibly be true. That place wasn't even on the radar until, what, 2002?

Subject: Re: true story

doctorj wrote: [quote=Midas]
you can throw in all the pc disclaimers you like. yours is a racist post and if I knew who you were i'd punch you in the mouth. it's people like you keep neighborhoods lilke PH from reaching they're potential.

... because the only constructive response to perceived racism is violence.

oooo SNAP!

parrothead wrote: Muddy Waters is now driving a brand new sporty bmw. ?????? :roll:

well, isn't the owner of MW also directly related to the landlord of the building?

elitt wrote: it's def. been there since 98

[quote=dailyheights]Wait a minute - 10 YEARS of Muddy Waters? That can't possibly be true. That place wasn't even on the radar until, what, 2002?

Can anyone verify that it's been open since 1996 or 1997 (depending on how she's counting)? This thread ("Muddy Waters back from the dead?!") suggests that it was closed for a while:
http://brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=325

There's also a lot of confusion, and maybe a little wishful thinking - someone describes an eviction notice, another suggests that the landlord won't renew its lease, etc. - is there anyone who has the real story?

And BTW, why would anyone name a coffee place "Muddy Waters"? It seems beautifully but perhaps unintentionally descriptive of what's served there.

it's my understanding that the woman that runs the place either owns or is related to the owner of the building that the coffee shop is in.

the rumor, which I've heard from multiple sources, is that she closed briefly b/c she wanted to

a) rent the space for more $$
b) couldn't compete with half at both MW and chocolate monkey and decided to focus on chocolate monkey
or
c) both reasons

the space WAS empty - I remember going to one of pieces' sales and the excess sale merch was in the empty MW space.

there's another rumor out there that she wanted pieces to expand into the space but wouldn't give them a good enough deal on rent. no clue if that's got any merit.

Look at the comment about MW in a thread about Joyce from Chowhound:

http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/325562

Ha!