Karma? Did I miss something?

WhyFi wrote: Gracious acceptance of an apology.

Poor form, Flexi.

"And I'd like to take this time to apologize for calling Flexi a bitch on the board. It's one of those things that should've only been muttered under my breath at home"

Do you really think that was an apology, whyfi? Not in my book. If it was, I would have accepted it. But go back and read it again. She's sorry she said it on the board. She didn't apologize to me. Better to just say nothing than to say something so insincere.

Thinking that someone is a bitch/asshole is perfectly normal. It's the lack of control, that causes one to express it, that is regrettable. Would you rather that she apologize for something completely involuntary, namely her opinion of you immediately after your insulting comments?

Flexichick wrote: [quote=WhyFi]Gracious acceptance of an apology.

Poor form, Flexi.

"And I'd like to take this time to apologize for calling Flexi a bitch on the board. It's one of those things that should've only been muttered under my breath at home"

Do you really think that was an apology, whyfi? Not in my book. If it was, I would have accepted it. But go back and read it again. She's sorry she said it on the board. She didn't apologize to me. Better to just say nothing than to say something so insincere.

http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/play/port_lofi.cfm/sound_iid.7496

EmilyM wrote:

The karma isn't meant to be a popularity contest. It's meant to give you a way of giving props to people who are helpful, friendly, funny, etc. It's meant to give a way of showing who is a valuable presence on the boards that doesn't have to do with post count--because we get a LOT of complaints about people (yes, more than one) who post a lot without really contributing to the conversation.

That's not unreasonable (the first part) but ultimately what is the point? Are there going to be awards or something? Most Valuable Brooklynian Poster? I really dislike the smite feature and have also given AW a bunch of karma points because I don't like to see anyone being picked on. He's not malicious -- if you don't like his posts, why read them? I cannot believe that people here are such prima donnas that they complain to the moderators that other posters are annoying or not "contributing" properly.

Rose wrote: [quote=EmilyM]

The karma isn't meant to be a popularity contest. It's meant to give you a way of giving props to people who are helpful, friendly, funny, etc. It's meant to give a way of showing who is a valuable presence on the boards that doesn't have to do with post count--because we get a LOT of complaints about people (yes, more than one) who post a lot without really contributing to the conversation.

That's not unreasonable (the first part) but ultimately what is the point? Are there going to be awards or something? Most Valuable Brooklynian Poster? I really dislike the smite feature and have also given AW a bunch of karma points because I don't like to see anyone being picked on. He's not malicious -- if you don't like his posts, why read them? I cannot believe that people here are such prima donnas that they complain to the moderators that other posters are annoying or not "contributing" properly.

In that case, what's the point of the board? everyone is WAY WAY WAY overthinking this.

Livetotravel wrote: [quote=Carnivore][quote=Livetotravel]Emily - since you agree with a lot of us about the high school nature of this feature and since you are a strong observer of human nature, simply take down the fearture. It really sucks and is under such questionable access and usage as to render it pure fabrication.

Actually, I think that Emily was pretty clear about the fact that the "high school nature" was a property of the posters and not of the feature itself.

Correct - that's why I put in the human nature part. A system is indistinquishable from its user base after a while. Such being the case one can't advocate for the feature when the users are corrupting it. Maybe this Board isn't quite yet sophisticated or mature enough to use the karma feature as the administrators envisioned - a vision that remains a mystery since it was implemented by fiat not discussion.

You know, in hindsight, a more democratic discussion concerning the possible adding of the feature would have been preferable.

Emily said that this is the only board where she's seen the feature devolve into this petty b.s., hence her statement that the users of this board are the reason it has devolved, not human nature and not the feature itself.

and actually, the discussion of the topic on the PS board is significantly more "upset" than the discussion on the PH board, where it's pretty much gone/ignored at this point. amusing, no?

I wonder if we can tie karma points to stroller wheels?

WhyFi wrote: Gracious acceptance of an apology.

Poor form, Flexi.

seriously. lowest form of common discourse on PS board, please.

This whole thing is getting way too meta. :roll:

It was not a gracious apology. Should've stopped after the first sentence.

But anyway, if it's only this board that has ever behaved badly when confronted with a karma-rating system, then perhaps it should be taken away, since we're clearly too immature or irritable to deal with it.

I know I am overthinking this. ETA: But so is the person who just smited me for writing this. I'm going to give AW another karma point now.

The apology was weak and the response was ingracious. The entire thread has long since turned ridiculous though.

Rose wrote: Also, Dave, if you are going to use the word "douche," I want you to spell it correctly, but I would really prefer if you would pick a word without misogynistic overtones. (I'm just bringing this up because I've noticed you using the word before and it bugged me, so since people are being so, um, honest in this thread . . . )

Yeah, my spelling has never been that great. I will continue to use to word though, but I mean no disrespect toward you or any women by doing so. :oops: Just a funny word meaning shower, in my opinion. But feel free to smite me (anyone) for using it or voicing any other opinions 'cause that will make the whole world better 8)

Two observations:
1. This thread now has two stars, I started it and am at -1 karma, seems funny.
2. Flexichick, my personal favorite poster on this site, is -7 as I type this (probably -14 in a sec, or positve 11 the way these things seem to change). But she seemed so nice!

Personally, I will refrain from dealing out any points, since they're lame. But hey, that's just me.

I think I'd like to be voted off the island now! :P

Carnivore wrote: This whole thing is getting way too meta. :roll:

that's totally not gracious of you at all, C. I think your critique of my meta is misogynistic and oppressive. I'm smiting you. and Mrs. C. and T - the hurricane WAS for pussies.

If I score a + 10 Karma, will I be crowned Homecoming King or Captain of the football team?

Anonymous wrote: If I score a + 10 Karma, will I be crowned Homecoming King or Captain of the football team?

Probably both.

i like karma cause it makes me feel good

I just applauded MeanDood for his brilliant avatar. However...

Speaking as the guy who will make the final decision on whether karma goes or stays, I think the whole karma system is just going to be an ongoing source of strife. I agree that the system seems broken if KosherDave and FlexiChick are coming up negative. Both of them regularly and consistently make meaningful contributions to this board.

I think highlighting "total points from rated posts" would be a much better measure. Those who don't contribute materially to the board will stay at 0, and those who do contribute materially will be rewarded, AND you can see exactly why they are being rewarded, since that system keeps track of which posts got rated. "Karma" is simply a dumb plus-minus tally that people are reading way too much into.

It is fascinating to see these strong reactions, though, which are obviously based on our shared understanding of what "karma" means. In "the west" we tend to think of "karma" as some ultimate system of justice that nobody can escape, no matter how rich, powerful, attractive, or modly they are. This "karma" system gives certain individuals have special rights, and thus they are (sort of) unaccountable to those rules, which flies in the face of our shared folk definition of karma.

We could easily set the system so that moderators don't have "super karma" rights. But that wouldn't eliminate the problem of malicious smiting out of spite; keep in mind that wrongly smiting is itself an act of bad karma. The ability for anyone to smite when it's not deserved again flies in the face of what karma "means" to us.

I know it's going to be tough for Carnivore to give up those 10 karma points.

dailyheights wrote: I agree that the system seems broken if KosherDave and FlexiChick are coming up negative. Both of them regularly and consistently make meaningful contributions to this board.

I feel the love

dailyheights wrote:

I think highlighting "total points from rated posts" would be a much better measure. Those who don't contribute materially to the board will stay at 0, and those who do contribute materially will be rewarded, AND you can see exactly why they are being rewarded, since that system keeps track of which posts got rated. "Karma" is simply a dumb plus-minus tally that people are reading way too much into.

I Wish I Could Quit You (this thread I mean - I know I promised to not come back to it)!

While I enthusiastically =D> you decision to quit the karma - I simply do not understand why you feel a need to continue with any type of rating system. :?:

It just seems to me to fly in the face of Internet egalitarianism.

Thanks for opening this up to discussion.

dailyheights wrote: I just applauded MeanDood for his brilliant avatar. However...

Speaking as the guy who will make the final decision on whether karma goes or stays, I think the whole karma system is just going to be an ongoing source of strife. I agree that the system seems broken if KosherDave and FlexiChick are coming up negative. Both of them regularly and consistently make meaningful contributions to this board.

I think highlighting "total points from rated posts" would be a much better measure. Those who don't contribute materially to the board will stay at 0, and those who do contribute materially will be rewarded, AND you can see exactly why they are being rewarded, since that system keeps track of which posts got rated. "Karma" is simply a dumb plus-minus tally that people are reading way too much into.

It is fascinating to see these strong reactions, though, which are obviously based on our shared understanding of what "karma" means. In "the west" we tend to think of "karma" as some ultimate system of justice that nobody can escape, no matter how rich, powerful, attractive, or modly they are. This "karma" system gives certain individuals have special rights, and thus they are (sort of) unaccountable to those rules, which flies in the face of our shared folk definition of karma.

We could easily set the system so that moderators don't have "super karma" rights. But that wouldn't eliminate the problem of malicious smiting out of spite; keep in mind that wrongly smiting is itself an act of bad karma. The ability for anyone to smite when it's not deserved again flies in the face of what karma "means" to us.

I know it's going to be tough for Carnivore to give up those 10 karma points.

Daily -

Thanks for being the voice of reason (and not just because you said nice things about me )

Being called "paranoid", "self-centered", "rude" and a "bitch" - because I questioned the "super power" of the moderators (which you basically verified)...well..... perhaps it's time for a "moderator code of conduct" review? (edit: I took out some of the comments that should be just left in my head)

I applaud (although I'm staying away from the button!) your open-mindedness to feedback as this system doesn't seem to be a welcome addition.

....and that has already earned me -2 more. Go, me!

Flexichick wrote: ....and that has already earned me -2 more. Go, me!

Holy Cow, I am soooo jealous of your -12 karma! I seem to only be able to teeter between 0 and -2!

Livetotravel wrote: While I enthusiastically =D> you decision to quit the karma - I simply do not understand why you feel a need to continue with any type of rating system. :?:

It just seems to me to fly in the face of Internet egalitarianism.

Thanks for opening this up to discussion.

I don't think I've ever encountered this "egalitarian Internet" of which you speak. The Web is useful because it is so aggressively anti-egalitarian. How useless would Google results be if every single Web page carried equal weight?

The post rating system has been in place for weeks with zero complaints. I like it because I don't ever have time to scan the entire board. Now, if I see a star next to a post, I know that the discussion is worth checking out. All we are proposing is that we make it easier to see whose posts are getting rated.

kosherdave wrote: [quote=Flexichick]....and that has already earned me -2 more. Go, me!

Holy Cow, I am soooo jealous of your -12 karma! I seem to only be able to teeter between 0 and -2!

Don't hate me because I'm controversial

I'll gladly smite you if it makes you feel better - because that's the kind of girl I am :-)

dailyheights wrote:
The post rating system has been in place for weeks with zero complaints. I like it because I don't ever have time to scan the entire board. Now, if I see a star next to a post, I know that the discussion is worth checking out. All we are proposing is that we make it easier to see whose posts are getting rated.

Wow, isn't that like choosing a book based solely on it's cover, or more like based on Oprah's review :roll:

But seriously, if you wanted to do that, couldn't you just scan based on the number of replies or views?

Personally, I just read by topic or at random. There are some really good ones that get only a small handful of responses and have no stars...

kosherdave wrote: ... couldn't you just scan based on the number of replies or views?

Personally, I just read by topic or at random. There are some really good ones that get only a small handful of responses and have no stars...

Well, ideally, you would be rating the really good ones that only get a small handful of responses and have no stars!

Hot damn! For a minute I thought I came back to more bad karma than AW. Sigh. A girl can dream :roll:

Flexichick wrote: Hot damn! For a minute I thought I came back to more bad karma than AW. Sigh. A girl can dream :roll:

Seriously, how can you be at -20 now. This is offensive and soooo not fair, I should have at least half that!! Something's fishy! I'm jealous!

OW! Stop, dammit! Stop!

Dead Horse wrote: OW! Stop, dammit! Stop!

this post deserves an "awesome"