More Sad Behavior

apolline77

Hi All,

Long time listener, first time caller...

I hate to be alarmist, but I thought it my responsibility to at least post what happened to me last night on the corner of Underhill and Sterling, right by the bodega, at approximately 9:30PM.... Here's what happened:

I was walking to get a few things from the bodega (shopping list available upon request), and some fella was walking ahead of me. He turned and looked over his shoulder, and said 'Yo, dude,.' In that hushed, 'Hi Sucker, I'm up to no good' tone... I said hello and kept walking, and he protested, requesting that I stop and talk to him.

Me, being the street-savvy devil that I am, kept walking, and invited him to walk with me if he wanted to talk. He didn't like that, and just on the corner by the bodega, from behind me, said something to the effect of 'Yo dude turn around..."

I looked over my shoulder. He had pulled up his shirt to reveal a handgun tucked into his pants. He was reaching for it and gesturing for me to look at it. No, I am not kidding.

I bolted. Don't know what came over me, but I was inside the bodega rather quickly, and waited inside for a few minutes. My friend met me, and we walked back to my apartment.

Now, I am a burly fella. About 6', about 220 pounds. I don't look like the kind of guy who just left a Fall Out Boy concert... (no offense, FOB fans)
In other words, I NEVER thought that some bitchass with a gun would pick me for his mark. But now that I have been marked, I am a bit shaken. I can handle myself fine, but nothing is worth taking a bullet for.

And I didn't go to the police station. I know, I know. I can hear you all slapping your foreheads now. And I understand. But I didn't want to explain to them that I was nearly mugged by a black man, in his early 20's, between 5'9" and 6', and no I didn't see his face - I was too busy looking at the gun that was being displayed and then running my little ass off toward the relative safety of the bodega. And I certainly don't want the cops to start looking suspiciously at every black man in our neighborhood just out for a stroll... This is a diverse neighborhood, and I hope it stays that way.

Also, there was a squad car on the next block (Underhill & St. Johns), lights flashing. They've been there for two nights. Doing what? Not much, apparently.

What does everyone else think? What is the point of having some gumshoe in a squad car, windows rolled up? I think I am going to start berating the local precinct until they get cops walking the beat, putting a human presence on our streets. But I'd like us all to do it.

Start calling. Start asking to see the commanding officer at the local precinct. Start demanding more than a squad car parked on the corner with the windows rolled up. Thats my plan. They'll be so sick of me that they just might do something about what is happening in Prospect Heights these days. That's my plan.

As the summer comes around, we'll all have our windows opened more... Maybe we can organize community safe-houses? Maybe a word or phrase that we can all shout out should someone feel threatened so that others can call the police and come outside to help? Thoughts?

I love our neighborhood. I've lived here for years. I don't want this to happen to anyone, and I am absolutely furious about it.

stacey

First I am so glad that you are okay and hope you are not too shaken up.

Second - I know your mind is racing in these types of situations and it is hard to think clearly but this happened across the street and one block away from a playground and school. I really think you should have called the cops from the bodega - even if you didn't see his face you gave a rough description and you could have told them what he was wearing. You could have sent your friend to St. Johns and Underhill and had him/her bring the cops with them. Whatever you feel about the policies of the police, etc. if they don't know about it there is nothing they can do. For the sake of his future victims I really hope you call the police today.

arches

You should definitely report the incident. At the very least, it strengthens your case for demanding more police presence and highlights Underhill's strange magnetism for gun crimes.

Also, keep in mind that while you may not have all the details of his description, others in the area have been mugged under gunpoint (one on April 7 at Sterling btwn Underhill/Washington, according to the crime map), so maybe you can help fill in missing pieces to the puzzle. http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=106641398518181392265.0004445476e19d4eff6cd

How far were you from the bogeda when he first spoke to you? I think the laundromat on Underhill has cameras outside...did you walk by in that direction?

tajmb

Please file a police report. Take a deep breath, know that you are now safe, and make the call.

That gun gave you a little taste of what it's like to not be 6' and 200+lbs. With a gun that size just makes you a bigger target. Unfortunately women feel like this all the time.

The fear that the cops will revictimize you by acting like you should have a better description is familiar. But if you let it keep you from reporting the crime, you are still the victim. The fear that the cops would unjustly persecute some young black man who happened to be innocently on the street that evening did not make such a young man safer. It just left him unwittingly available to be the gunman's next victim.

I'm not sure if all of us calling the CO and complaining about something we read on a blog will have more impact than you filing a report. Maybe both will work.

brookfetish

I'm sorry this happened to you.

Remember: just because no actual violence took place doesn't mean a crime wasn't committed. An unlicensed handgun is 3 yrs in the slammer.

Side note: do these guns every accidentally go off in people's pants? Seems like a horrible spot to keep a presumably loaded gun.

sillybilly

Guy . . . glad you made it out of that one OK.

Now, you really should've called the cops. It's not going to be a race thing . . . it's a thug thing (a thug with a gun). Look at it as you're helping get a gun off the streets. Do us a favor and file a report.

We'll take you advice and petition the 77th Pct. to have foot patrols. As the weather warms up, I fear this type of shit will be occurring more frequently.

eterpay

yeah, this is messed up. Sorry this happened to you.
It seems to me like a crime was committed -- the guy threatened you with a gun. So I think you should report it.

underhill_mt

BrookFetish wrote: I'm sorry this happened to you.

Remember: just because no actual violence took place doesn't mean a crime wasn't committed. An unlicensed handgun is 3 yrs in the slammer.

Side note: do these guns every accidentally go off in people's pants? Seems like a horrible spot to keep a presumably loaded gun.

I wonder the same thing! I always hope that somewhere, somehow, when some douche keeps a gun in his pants it blows his/her teensy weensy bits off.

In the interest of full disclosure, the original poster and I are getting married on Saturday and I'm super appreciative of the support on this board. Thanks, guys.

paraderest

Yes, mopes shoot themselves all the time. If somebody is shoot in the foot or thigh, chances are pretty good that it was a self inflicted wound.

As for the police car sitting on the corner. It is placed there (and at other locations in the area) to provide a higly visible presence. That corner sitting on the corner with it's lights on is a more visible deterent to crime than is a foot cop. To prove my point, there were 6 other cops on foot
that you didn't notice, nor did your potential robber.

The robberies and assaults on the western part of the pct have decreased in the last few weeks. This could be part of the normal ebb and flow of crime but the police dept has devoted significant resources to the area including those fixed posts, footposts, a robbery auto, and on certain days an additional 5 cars from Brooklyn North Task Force.

apolline77

Subject: I will File

Hi All,

Thanks for the outpouring of great stuff. It is really wonderful to know that I post, and you all took the time to read, support, and suggest a next course of action.

You're all very right. Now that I am cooler and not so ready to go and beat the piss out of that guy myself, I am going to the police this evening to file a report. I should have done it last night, and I am sorry now that I didn't. I'll do it tonight, and just to keep myself honest with all, I'll post back after I have to let everyone know what the outcome was.

Someone posted that 'Now I know what it is like not to be 6' and 200+ lbs.' You're absolutely right. I do. That was the point that got me to get over my foolishness and decide to go to the police.

Thank you all.

jimmyjames

I'm sure there's going to be a strong reaction to what you posted, particularly the part about not reporting the incident because the guy was black. Is this really what you're saying? If so I think this reflects very badly on you:

a) something bad happened to you but you won't take an easy step to help reduce the chances of this situation happening to somebody else

b) you are being incredibly racially patronizing and misguided. Who are you to decide what's best for the black community? Don't you think the black people who live in the neighbourhood would prefer that an attempted armed robbery was reported and their neighbourhood made safer.

c) you are being a racist, choosing an action based purely on the color of someone's skin.

In summary, there's always unintended consequences of every decision so therefore you should make decisions based on what's right (reporting a crime, regardless of skin color) rather than on trying to influence something that's outside your control. Having a black guy with a gun loose in the neighbourhood will be worse for race relations than not having a black guy loose with a gun in the neighbourhood.

ps. I'm glad you're okay

pps. If I misinterpreted what you're saying than I take everything back. Maybe you can clarify?

apolline77

Subject: oh boy

Please read above.

I certainly didn't make a decision because he was a black guy. As I said in my previous post, I didn't see his face - I was looking at his gun. Clearly I was in fight or flight mode when I saw it, and chose (instinctively) the latter.

I don't want this to be a question of race. My point was that I watch the news and see that police sketch of the same non-distinguishing features mid-twenties black man, and certainly don't think it will help. I didn't see his face, I couldn't pick him out of a line up of two people who look entirely different.

The point is that I need to report a crime, and I realize that. I don't need it to be a discussion beyond that. Unless it was a purple monster wearing a polka-dot dress, I don't think I can offer a description that would offer a single discriminating feature of my assailant.

That is all I meant. Again, I am going to the police today.

underhill_mt

jimmyjames wrote: I'm sure there's going to be a strong reaction to what you posted, particularly the part about not reporting the incident because the guy was black. Is this really what you're saying? If so I think this reflects very badly on you:

a) something bad happened to you but you won't take an easy step to help reduce the chances of this situation happening to somebody else

b) you are being incredibly racially patronizing and misguided. Who are you to decide what's best for the black community? Don't you think the black people who live in the neighbourhood would prefer that an attempted armed robbery was reported and their neighbourhood made safer.

c) you are being a racist, choosing an action based purely on the color of someone's skin.

In summary, there's always unintended consequences of every decision so therefore you should make decisions based on what's right (reporting a crime, regardless of skin color) rather than on trying to influence something that's outside your control. Having a black guy with a gun loose in the neighbourhood will be worse for race relations than not having a black guy loose with a gun in the neighbourhood.

ps. I'm glad you're okay

pps. If I misinterpreted what you're saying than I take everything back. Maybe you can clarify?

Considering the racial tension that exists in this neighborhood (and world at large) in a realistic way does not a racist make. Is one person responsible for race relations in their entirety? No, of course not. But, being considerate and thoughtful about the fact that having cops roaming the streets looking for a very minimally described black dude could have serious consequences doesn't make this a crime on the part of the victim.

The report will be filed, just as he said, and hopefully it will make some sort of difference.

vagabond

The 77th precinct has monthly community meetings every first Monday(?). There is a bulletin on the door of The Usual with all of the details. That would probably be the best place to ask for more police.

This is the first mugging/attempted mugging post in a while. There was a big spree in Dec/Jan/Feb. Everyone was predicting the worse when the warmer weather arrived, which has not happened. I think there must be a lot of extra feet on the ground already.

I am happy you are ok. That must have been both scary and frustrating.

apolline77

Subject: I gotta say one more thing:

to the person who suggested that I might have acted under racist pretenses:

How do you know I am not a black man myself? I'd say that you might want to ask the question of prejudice on yourself first. You made an assumption that I was a white guy, did you not?

I came here to alert my neighbors. My black neighbors, my white neighbors, women, men, children... Humans.

Humans.

underhill_mt

vagabond wrote: The 77th precinct has monthly community meetings every first Monday(?). There is a bulletin on the door of The Usual with all of the details. That would probably be the best place to ask for more police.

This is the first mugging/attempted mugging post in a while. There was a big spree in Dec/Jan/Feb. Everyone was predicting the worse when the warmer weather arrived, which has not happened. I think there must be a lot of extra feet on the ground already.

I am happy you are ok. That must have been both scary and frustrating.

Here's the post about the meeting on 4/28: http://brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=42022

jimmyjames

I don't care what race you are, nor does my point change based on your race.
I care that you didn't report the crime because of the race of the perpetrator. I don't want to be one of those people who attack the victim and I don't think you brought on the mugging because you walked down the street juggling iPhones or because you didn't say hello to your neighbours every 2 minutes.

But as there were lots of other people giving you due sympathy and you seemed to be okay, I thought your actions were very interesting and worthy of discussion. You say your action wasn't race related, but your general point seems to be that as you didn't get a clear look at the guy's face you didn't want the police potentially hassling all/any black guys. This is absolutely a racist decision. I know you think you're being a good person, but racist behavior (even if you think it's helping) is racist behavior and the unintended consequences of such actions just cause racism to stick around for longer. The best way to get rid of racism is not be racist or accept it.

ps. did you make an assumption as to my race? :-)

apolline77

Oh boy.

I'll let everyone know how the police report turns out. I'm not engaging in further discussion on this.

Just as a note to all others who read this blog- I am again dissuaded from posting. I gave my mea culpa for not going right to the police, and apologized for not doing it right away, and my reasons were clear... but apparently now I am racist. I won't be posting again after I report back regarding the police report.

I can't believe this turned into something so stupid. Sorry to all who were reading this for the right reasons.

underhill_mt

jimmyjames wrote: ps. did you make an assumption as to my race? :-)

I assumed you were purple. Was that wrong?

Here's the deal - "racist" implies something inherently awful, whereas being conscious of race issues does not equal racism.

The real reason he didn't file a report last night is that he couldn't even tell me what color shirt the gun-toting dude was wearing. Believe me, I grilled him. Since he could offer no good description, other than the dude was black, he felt uncomfortable. It's a reasonable thing to be weary of starting something that could assign false suspicion to half the people on your own block. The report is being filed today anyway, and hopefully none of our neighbors will be either assaulted by this criminal or unduly watched by the police.

meredithb

Apolline77, if you mention race on this forum, even if your were mugged, raped and murdered, then you are a racist.

That's how this forum works.

And you better watch your words, because one slip, one tiny mess-up in the way you say something (or don't say sometihing), then you will be considered a racist.

Of course the guy doing the mugging isn't a racist.

'nuff said.

tryguy

Simply stating a fact of our neighborhood; a number of people roaming around the streets fit the general makeup of the described perpetrator, doesn't constitute as a racist comment. If one were to take another city block where people of the same ethinicities, class, or race existed, Appolline's reasons for not going to the police wouldn't change. It was dark out and he didn't feel he had enough information to go to the police, and since nothing was lost except peace of mind, it's easy to forget that going to the police is a form of taking action. I understand the reasons for not going to the police and I'm glad you have made the decision to report the incident because I believe it to be correct.
I'm upset that Apolline had to defend himself from being called a racist and argue that a phrase such as, that comment could be perceived as racist, would have been just as effective and certainly less offensive if you felt that point was appropriate. I like a spade being called a spade but when their is ambiguity over intended meaning, it is irresponsible to throw around labels of such cultural significance.

jimmyjames

I hate the way the victim is attacked on this message board and for the record I would hope the mugger gets everything he deserves. I probably have less sympathy for the mugger than most on this forum. This was partly behind my reason for wanting it reported. I'm not one of these people who blame the victim or make excuses for the perpetrator.

But I was offended that a perpetrator wasn't being reported because of the color of his skin (read the post). I want my neighbourhood to be safer and I didn't think this action was helping anything. I know the victim thought they were being racist for the right reasons and acknowledged this, but I don't think being racist for the right reason is helpful. I wanted to discuss this as a topic rather than just turning it into a flame war so apoligies of my posts offended.

I think the below comment from Underhill_MT is naive and simplistic and doesn't really get us anywhere.

"racist" implies something inherently awful, whereas being conscious of race issues does not equal racism.

Everyone knows and recognizes extreme racist behavior and 99% of the time doesn't accept it. However, it's the nuanced, not always outwardly visible racist behavior that sticks around and causes all the problems.

I would guess that most racist behavior people experience is not someone shouting something awful at them, but just people (often times subconsciously) acting differently. This may be crossing the street if you're walking alone in a dodgy neighbourhood and there's a black guy behind you, or it could be not reporting a crime because the person was black and you don't want to tar all black people.

Apolline, I know you came on this message board as a victim and to warn people which is great, but I didn't agree with a certain aspect of your response and wanted to call this out. This shouldn't take away from your bad experience or make you less of a victim.

brooklynboy3

Subject: These Are Brooklyn People?

I am sorry that this happened to you.

You should report it if you are comfortable doing so and not report it if you are not comfortable doing so.

Personally, I find the comments on this thread shocking. They are judgmental, opinionated and in your face rude. Yet, even under fire your responses seem to be cool and under control. Perhaps that is what saved you in the face of danger.

I am fascinated that you post to warn others and the reaction is finger wagging and judgment. What a sad bunch of human beings.

Marty Markowitz said that "Brooklyn is a brand." Sadly that brand has lost a bit of its panache today.

Perhaps it is time for some of those responding to move to Jersey. I can see a really good fit.

Please be well and take care!

H

underhill_mt

Just one last, big "thanks" to all the posters with kind words and encouragement. This type of neighborly spirit is what I love most about living here. No one wants to be in danger, no one wants their neighbor to be in danger, either. Since none of us will likely know if the criminal in this case is ever apprehended (since Apolline didn't get a look at him) just be a little more aware of your surroundings, neighbors.

Says the naive and simplistic thinker.

apolline77

BrooklynBoy, and all others:

1. I just called the 77th, and spoke to an officer. He also gave me a ton of hell for not calling 911. I am completely nuts for not doing so, and again, my apologies to everyone in the neighborhood for not doing so right away ...Funny the way we can all think (or fail to) when we're rattled out of our normal paradigms.

2. I am going in directly after work to file a formal report, at the suggestion of the officer, and everyone else who has urged me to do so.
To be thorough - I'll post the details of the report (if for nothing else but posterity.)

And last, but not least: To everyone that came to my defense, or posted something human and kind regarding my (albeit small and non-deadly outcome) encounter with a gun last night...

You all are the reason that I love calling Brooklyn my home. Smart, kind people that rally towards positivity, are understanding, are direct, are clear-headed. You didn't let me off the hook for not calling the police, but you didn't crucify me as racist. To not let someone off the hook while maintaining objectivity and pursuing positive reinforcement are the marks of great minds.

No matter what, there is good with bad, and today your wisdom and kindness has affirmed once again why it is that I choose to make my home in Brooklyn.

Thank you.

queencallipygos

jimmyjames wrote: I don't care what race you are, nor does my point change based on your race.
I care that you didn't report the crime because of the race of the perpetrator.

No.

He said he didn't report the crime because he didn't get a good look at what the guy looked like. For all he knew, the guy could have been purple and had a live chicken for a nose, but all he saw was the gun and he didn't think that that would be as helpful to police, so he didn't report it at first.

Jeez.

drkman

Glad that you decided to go to the police and file a report. That is the wisest thing to do and will help the police to identify any patterns of muggings that may be occuring in the area. Also. glad that it was just a fright that was received and nothing more serious.

MOD

Oy Vey!

Must we have this conversation every other fukin month?? :evil: :evil: :evil: :roll:

Original Poster, No, YOU and NOT a racist. Ok.
Let's just move on people. We've been here before and we know the drill.
Let's not bother to defend or accuse.

FACTS:He reported it. He informed his neighbors.

This thread is now met it's conclusion unless anyone has something useful and pertinent to say, we are done.

OP, I really do hope you keep posting.

daruma

I am grateful you didn't get hurt. Go make a report.

I sent this story to my son. Park Slope is where he lives.

He had different take on this.

"sounds more like it could've been a gentleman's request
for a civilized duel; if only the challenged party
hadn't fled. (and if only NYC allowed concealed
weapons)

I believe the challenger was simply in the first stage
of a duel. "Posturing" For at least ten seconds, the
participants should engage in witty repartee
consisting of challenges, retorts, insults, and so
forth. You could also strike poses or employ slow
motions to indicate that you are engaged in a duel.
(run to bodega-lose 1 honor point)

As with all such sudden attacks, the honorableness of
the attack may need to be resolved once the dust
settles."

jimmyjames

This is the reason he gave for not reporting the crime.

"And I certainly don't want the cops to start looking suspiciously at every black man in our neighborhood just out for a stroll... This is a diverse neighborhood, and I hope it stays that way."

I find this a pretty offensive, naive and patronizing viewpoint/action and not likely to have the intended effect of helping race relations.

Appolline, hope your feelings weren't hurt too much, I guess there's more people like you on the message board, rather than like me, and I'm sure the outpouring of support you've received will make up for my comment.

I guess I'm excluded from the group hug.

For the record this is the first time I've posted on any message board for a number of years and probably the last. I'm really surprised nobody else thought I was making a valid point.

Peace out

brooklynboy3

Mamacita wrote: Oy Vey!

Must we have this conversation every other fukin month?? :evil: :evil: :evil: :roll:

Original Poster, No, YOU and NOT a racist. Ok.
Let's just move on people. We've been here before and we know the drill.
Let's not bother to defend or accuse.

FACTS:He reported it. He informed his neighbors.

This thread is now met it's conclusion unless anyone has something useful and pertinent to say, we are done.

OP, I really do hope you keep posting.

Funny; you don;t look Jewish...
H