This annoyed me

anastasia beaverhausen

So I'm down at the local bodega for a pint of ice cream (I'm sick, damnit! I NEED IT!) and the girl (teenaged, I'd say) in front of me with the perfectly manicured acrylic nails, the numerous earrings in her ears and enough gold around her neck to make Mr. T jealous is buying two Sunny Delights and one of those cans of mini Oreos - WITH HER FOOD STAMP CARD! Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking public assistance for people who need it but A) where is this bitch getting the money for nails and jewelry but she can't buy food? and B ) I thought those cards were to be used to buy actual food - not shitty snacks? Am I wrong??

modsquad

You wouldn't believe how easy it is. The people I work with (these are leftovers from the 60's, "bleeding the beast dry") wouldn't dream of not having a Food Stamp card. How can I say this, go out to Coney Island public assistance center with your checking account statements for 3 months and stand in line for 4 hours and they give you a card, I think for 200 a month for a single person, more for kids of course. There is a max balance allowed in your checking I'm pretty sure. My friends have more than one checking account. It must be very confusing. I know a girl who majored in PhotoShop, she has one checking account. Funny how nobody ever checks these things. Oh, you know what? They're not allowed to.

meganlibrarian

I worked as a supermarket cashier in the burbs for a few years. Food stamps can be used to buy any food at all - shitty or wholesome. The WIC program's got strict guidelines, but not so for food stamps. Though... I do recall that food stamps couldn't be used for hot preprepared food (like rotisserie chicken) - something about taxation reasons or something. I try and forget my supermarket days.

witch-king

Let them eat mini Oreos.

underhill_mt

I, too, worked a grocery store job in the 'burbs as a teenager. It was sad to see what people bought with their WIC program funds.

It's just as sad here in Brooklyn. I often see a neighbor in the bodega near my house who stops in on her way to take her son to school... she typically buys him a soda of some sort and a snack cake. She pays for it with her public assistance card and the little boy rips into it - because it's his breakfast. FWIW, her nails are perfect acrylic nightmares.

jay b

I used to work in a food stamp/welfare office (for a very short time). The computer systems there were automatically notified about recipients' bank accounts and the amounts in them. Also, the systems were informed about any "on the books" job a recipient may have had. It was widely believed among workers in the office that many of these people had "off the books" jobs or were involved in illegal but profitable activities. Most of the recipients had nicer cellphones than myself and my coworkers. I also had a client who had clearly just had her hair done up real nice, and she was in my cubicle telling me she'd die without food stamps. Oh yeah, most welfare recipients live in the projects where rent is around $200 - 300 a month depending on family size. And guess what? Welfare also sends rent checks directly to clients' landlords. Free food, free rent, make a few bucks for cellphones and hair-dos, I'd say that's not too bad a racket huh?

carnivore

Jay B wrote: I used to work in a food stamp/welfare office (for a very short time). The computer systems there were automatically notified about recipients' bank accounts and the amounts in them. Also, the systems were informed about any "on the books" job a recipient may have had. It was widely believed among workers in the office that many of these people had "off the books" jobs or were involved in illegal but profitable activities. Most of the recipients had nicer cellphones than myself and my coworkers. I also had a client who had clearly just had her hair done up real nice, and she was in my cubicle telling me she'd die without food stamps. Oh yeah, most welfare recipients live in the projects where rent is around $200 - 300 a month depending on family size. And guess what? Welfare also sends rent checks directly to clients' landlords. Free food, free rent, make a few bucks for cellphones and hair-dos, I'd say that's not too bad a racket huh?

I don't think any of us would trade places with them.

anastasia beaverhausen

[quote=witch-king]Let them eat mini Oreos.



Hey, at least my mini-Oreos would be paid for with the money I earn at my job!

livetotravel

This thread annoys me.

Walk a mile in their shoes and then let me hear what annoys you.

shishkab

Livetotravel wrote: Walk a mile in their shoes and then let me hear what annoys you.

well if the shoes are too small it'll be the blisters.

yuk yuk yuk

whyfi

Livetotravel wrote: This thread annoys me.

Walk a mile in their shoes and then let me hear what annoys you.

So, in what way is using their limited resources on nutrient deficient foods helpful to their situation?

I am genuinely interested in hearing your defense of misuse/abuse of assistance program funds and even more interested to hear your ideas on how to improve the situation of individuals/communities that have come to rely on the assistance programs.

modsquad

Jay B wrote: I used to work in a food stamp/welfare office (for a very short time). The computer systems there were automatically notified about recipients' bank accounts and the amounts in them. Also, the systems were informed about any "on the books" job a recipient may have had. It was widely believed among workers in the office that many of these people had "off the books" jobs or were involved in illegal but profitable activities. Most of the recipients had nicer cellphones than myself and my coworkers. I also had a client who had clearly just had her hair done up real nice, and she was in my cubicle telling me she'd die without food stamps. Oh yeah, most welfare recipients live in the projects where rent is around $200 - 300 a month depending on family size. And guess what? Welfare also sends rent checks directly to clients' landlords. Free food, free rent, make a few bucks for cellphones and hair-dos, I'd say that's not too bad a racket huh?

You speak of "section 8" allocations I think. I have 2 men I employ who benefit from that. However, I am in contact with case workers who are trying to find them full time jobs. I don't know what they are doing illegal, other then the fact I pay them in cash with out the usual withholding. The money I pay them is their only discretionary income. Every thing is paid for by the city/state and they get about 30 bucks a week from the city to buy their beer/cheetoes/drugs. Who wouldn't break the law?

livetotravel

There are two Americas - most everyone posting on this community board, including moi, lives in the better one.

And there are no simplistic answers to a decades-old downward spiral of increasing poverty. The other America holds no promise - it's a vortex of poor choices, and poor or no access to equal education, equal health care, equal housing, equal employment and equal justice.

I wish I had an easy answer.

Just know I wouldn't want to switch places even for a day - no matter how many free Sunny Delights I got.

anastasia beaverhausen

Livetotravel - Listen, I live in a neighborhood I can afford. Would I like to live elsewhere? Sure. If I can't afford something, I don't buy it. I have to live on a budget. I don't have acrylic nails. Most of my jewelry (which is very limited) comes from family and friends as gifts. There have been numerous times where I've been short for my rent, late on my electric bill. However, its never crossed my mind to use the city or state to make up for it. If, God forbid, I needed public assistance, I can't imagine using it to buy fucking cookies and snacks. How many of us are very close to "walking in their shoes" but have enough common sense to use the system as it was intended and not as a way of life? You come talk to me after you've gotten your hair done, your nails painted and bought that new watch and collected your check then tell me how YOU feel. My gripe is NOT about people who need WIC or PA to survive, it's about people who obviously DON'T need it but are sucking it dry.

witch-king

I guess the moral of this story is that if you're poor you can't have cookies.

MOD

3 stars for witch-king, that cracked my ass up

anastasia beaverhausen

Whatever. This is why the system is broken, due to people thinking it's okay.

armchair_warrior

i'm for short term social assistant programs. but people make a habit of living off them for life times!!!!

i won't rat my friend out, but his wife is on those programs, he works for the gov makes enough money to support his kid. but they live in a "different address" and use separate accounts etc...

there are many people like them all over the us. such a waste of money.

besides them i know section 8 people too. another scam.

witch-king

Mamacita wrote: 3 stars for witch-king, that cracked my ass up

Wealthy people 'work' the system much more successfully than the poor and they make off with more than cookies and fancy nails. I save my moral outrage for this class (e.g.):

em26

The girl with the jewelry could have gotten those as gifts from family and friends as well. Her nails? She might have a job for the summer. Maybe she has a friend do it for her or she probably asks her mom , dad or boyfriend to give her money to get her nails done. What does it cost to get that fake shit put on ? $20? $30? That doesn't mean she has money and should be off welfare.The card? Maybe her mother gave it to her to go buy herself a snack? She's a teenager so what do you think she'd buy? Something nutritious? Freakin' oreos , that's whats up. The sunny d? Yucky juice , but at least it wasn't 2 bottles of pop. I get what you're saying.Yes, people that have good jobs and can afford to buy food for there kids , and pay the crazy rent , and pay their utilities , and buy clothes for themselves and for their kids , yes those people shouldn't be using the system that is intended for the poor who can probably pay the rent but then won't have money to buy food , or can get by with paying the rent and buying food , but then not have enough money to pay the utilities or clothe their family , etc. Some people don't have jobs at all and really do need the help till they get back on their feet.Do they really even try? We don't know their story so we can't judge. At least we know for sure their kids are getting something in their bellies and that's all that matters to me.

carmen

What I always found interesting:
I lived in a really cheap/shitty apt complex when I was in college (my first apt of my own which will always hold a place in my heart) and about 70% of the units were sections 8 (incidentally, the section 8 units were way fucking nicer than the non govt ones because they actually got renovated periodically.) anyway, I found it kind of funny that the parking lot was filled with tricked out lowriders, late model lexus' and mercedes coups....while I was driving a geo that wouldn't pass inspection and simultaneously being called a "rich white bitch" trying to "take over" their hood. Perhaps if I was paying $100 a month in rent I could have afforded a mercedes too, but you didn't see me rolling up with new sound systems or bags from the mall or takeout. As a matter of fact, for a brief time I worked in a higher-end chain store in the mall and would actually have my neighbors as patrons...they would drop hundreds (and I do mean HUNDREDS) of dollars on clothes and pay all in cash. Every time.
And, for reference, I lived in 3 separate apartment that were similar in this way (partially private owned/partially section 8) and it was always the same. And everyone sure did seem to have enough money for liquor, which i also couldn't afford. And 80% of the kids living in those neighborhoods were in no danger of starving to death anytime soon as they looked VERY well fed.

Tell me the system isn't broken.

homeowner

Anastasia Beaverhausen wrote: Livetotravel - Listen, I live in a neighborhood I can afford. Would I like to live elsewhere? Sure. If I can't afford something, I don't buy it. I have to live on a budget. I don't have acrylic nails. Most of my jewelry (which is very limited) comes from family and friends as gifts. There have been numerous times where I've been short for my rent, late on my electric bill. However, its never crossed my mind to use the city or state to make up for it. If, God forbid, I needed public assistance, I can't imagine using it to buy fucking cookies and snacks. How many of us are very close to "walking in their shoes" but have enough common sense to use the system as it was intended and not as a way of life? You come talk to me after you've gotten your hair done, your nails painted and bought that new watch and collected your check then tell me how YOU feel. My gripe is NOT about people who need WIC or PA to survive, it's about people who obviously DON'T need it but are sucking it dry.

I'd suggest that perhaps the reason that this young lady was making the choices she was had more to do with her age and the value system that comes from being that age.

You would never use public assistance to buy cookies and snacks, but if you were a 17 or 18 year old girl who was raised on a steady diet of junk food, fried chicken and french fries and "quarter water" you might not think there was anything wrong with Sunny D and cookies. If you were surrounded by people for whom public assistance was a way of life, where would you learn to use "the system as it was intended"? Would it not be reasonable to assume that it was intended to support you forever? When the normal relationships you see include boyfriends purchasing hairdos, nails, expensive sneakers, and cheap meals for you and your kids, why would you say no? Where exactly would you learn about IRAs, CDs, pensions, and insurance? Last time I checked NYC public schools don't teach kids what those things are, so why would you believe they were more important than cars, clothes, and jewelry?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but you are assuming that everyone has a similar set of values and that people who live outside the norm actively choose not to. The real story is so much more complex. Its so simplistic to say that this should be "common sense". But its not. Its real life for folks whose world is completely different than yours. Rather than railing about how screwed up they are, why not ask how it is that our government allows poor people to spend money on candy and soda rather than fruits and vegetables. Ask why the only place you can buy single cigarettes is in the ghetto. Ask why its easy to find liquor but hard to find a NY Times.

Instead of just being angry and frustrated, why not try to figure out how to stop it from happening.

modsquad

homeowner
this blog is not a government policy forum on stupid poor people. The OP has every right to complain about what she saw. Most people here would agree with her regarding common sense. The only thing you have added is that old wet blanket that we can't make a "value judgment". You seem to think the situation is more complex. I would like to know the reason why some people put pepsi in baby bottles and give their babies cheetoes out of the microwave. Do you presume it must be 'complex because it is so abhorant?

Do you want the government dictating what we can eat? It's easy to draw a line at Sunny D and Oreos but what about fat free Fig Newtons. You'd have to pry Fig Newtons from my cold dead hand.

cmdrive

i'm with witch-king. No doubt some poor people work the system - in my view it's a side effect of making sure people who need help get it. Many rich people work the system, and usually much more is at stake. If you get annoyed at all the people working the system you're pretty much always going to be annoyed. Choosing to be outraged about this seems like an odd choice.

In general, it seems dangerous to make sociological conclusions based on anecdotal evidence. Some of my more right-wing friends site singular incidents as evidence of the failings of the 'system'. It's hard to know how many people are taking assistance as they need it and picking themselves up. No one hears about those cases.

modsquad

we would all suckle that teet if offered, rich or poor. It's human nature.

daver

modsquad wrote: we would all suckle that teet if offered, rich or poor. It's human nature.

Not true. _Many_ people, both rich and poor, live with ethics and responsibility and would choose what they believed to be right, without regard for trying to justify lesser action in some way.

Oh yeah, and I am categorically against the government paying for Oreos for folks, rich or poor. It just doesn't seem right to me. White on the inside, black on the outside, the whole racial vibe is just disturbing, if nothing else. Perhaps a nice oatmeal cookie or something would be OK. But don't even get me started on Chocolate CHiPs...

jeffrey

What is your position on Mallowmars?

Ah darn, forget it.

modsquad

sometimes it isn't as blatant as taking money for your oreos, It might be a settlement with the IRS if your have a good CPA. It is a good idea to have a lawyer who knows Elder Care law when putting a parent into a home. That is an amazing scam. Maybe you buy something on the Internetz without paying sales tax. My father, who lives in upstate NY on limited income subsidizes your subway ride. Is that fair?
I agree, get rid of all money for oreos, be they cookies or subway rides.

What's the matter, you don't like teet?

daver

modsquad wrote: sometimes it isn't as blatant as taking money for your oreos, It might be a settlement with the IRS if your have a good CPA. It is a good idea to have a lawyer who knows Elder Care law when putting a parent into a home. That is an amazing scam. Maybe you buy something on the Internetz without paying sales tax. My father, who lives in upstate NY on limited income subsidizes your subway ride. Is that fair?
I agree, get rid of all money for oreos, be they cookies or subway rides.

What's the matter, you don't like teet?

Nah, I don't. I placed my dad without an elder care lawyer, I've dealt directly with the IRS. Unpleasant. When I lived in the city next door I paid for my library card as a non-resident because I really liked the library and didn't have a problem supporting it, although I knew many who slid the card for free.

I am definitely FER subsidizing public transit for various reasons. I could see myself as being AGIN having limited income seniors subsidize it, as well as upstaters in general. I am FER public assistance programs, supporting and helping those in need. I am AGIN free Oreos for fancy teenagers.

In principal.

daver

jeffrey wrote: What is your position on Mallowmars?

Ah darn, forget it.

Dey cookies! No free cookies!

Of course, as Heinlein always said. At least once. TANSTAAFL. Meaning, in a nutshell, even those with the free Oreos are paying for them. Those with free Oreos hurt themselves a lot more than they hurt me. Or you.

Which is why I want to help them!

modsquad

I agree, it is hurtful. Once you belly up to the teety bar it's hard to step away! :drunken: