• Rejoice, I think.
  • not, sure, my wife is against it, she's always right
  • I'm willing to listen to your wife...what does she say?
    :D
    Brownstoner story on it
    http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2008/12/fulton_bid_appr.php
  • Sorry to be ignorant but what is the BID?
  • Business Improvement District for Fulton St -- each business will now make monthly contributions based on square footage fronting Fulton to a fund that applies the $$ towards street cleanliness, lighting, etc...

    How'd I do with my explanation?
  • FANTASTIC!! Thanks St Jameson!
  • It's funny/creative that the anti BID business owners were co-opting Obama's logo for their posters. The businesses that are anti BID all seem to be bodegas, dollar stores, and other "non-gentrified" stores. Do they just not want to pay the dues or are they worried the BID will cause rents to rise so much they will be pushed out in favor of fancier tenants? Fulton Street, though I would LOVE a 24 hour green grocer with flowers outside and fig bars at the counter, seems to be doing a pretty good job of supporting relatively diverse businesses already. Outpost and Green Planet and Michael Allen are doing a brisk business as are the mom and pop hairdressers and laundromats. What do you think the BID will really change?
  • This is not good. Not good at all. How can you not see that this is designed to push out all the old longtime neighborhood businesses?
  • Because it's designed to improve the look and feel of a street that has been down on its luck for years. The rents will be determined by supply and demand, and there are plenty of available store fronts right now, so I wouldn't expect a huge rent spike because of the BID. If it makes the street more appealing to consumers and safer to walk around, if will have achieved something.
  • st jameson wrote: Because it's designed to improve the look and feel of a street that has been down on its luck for years. The rents will be determined by supply and demand, and there are plenty of available store fronts right now, so I wouldn't expect a huge rent spike because of the BID. If it makes the street more appealing to consumers and safer to walk around, if will have achieved something.


    Agree
  • Boygabriel wrote: [quote=st jameson]Because it's designed to improve the look and feel of a street that has been down on its luck for years. The rents will be determined by supply and demand, and there are plenty of available store fronts right now, so I wouldn't expect a huge rent spike because of the BID. If it makes the street more appealing to consumers and safer to walk around, if will have achieved something.


    Agree

    You're making a judgment call based on what? Please define "down on it's luck". What would "improve the look and feel" of the neighborhood. How about replacing torn earlobe advertisements with Kenneth Cole homilies? Maybe having a Starbucks is your definition of a successful shopping district. Some people would define that as the beginning of the end. Try driving or for that matter walking down Fulton Street during a normal business day. It's always been a very busy street. A rent spike is relative. To me empty store fronts implies that the rent is already too high. The only time a BID goes in a neighborhood is when change is inevitable. At least the poor people still living in the hood can get jobs sweeping the streets.
  • Kevin's wife here, using his avatar as I sometimes do... Thanks for offering to listen, Pitu.

    Right now, the BID is only proposing to provide street cleaning and security, and they've already put together quite a large budget based on that alone.

    All of this cost has to be paid for by the merchants. I pass daily by the merchants posting their protest signs, and I know of several brand new businesses that can't easily pull together the tax that will be imposed on them by the BID. And when even the large (for Brooklyn) GROCERY store is putting up an anti-BID sign in their window -- well, they've been around for years have a steady business, and if any business in this end of Fulton could afford something like this, it would be the Met grocery store, I'd think.

    I've been trying to imagine the daily income of some of these small, new businesses. I can imagine in some cases that they may not gross $200 on some days in sales. If a store rents, for say $3000... well, an extra cost like this may be just too much. As modsquad pointed out, store fronts are lying vacant with no takers, particularly between Classon and Vanderbilt; I worry that the added cost will mean even more "for rent" signs up in the stores.

    That said, the idea of the businesses organizing and pooling their resources is not a bad one, but I don't think holiday decorations, street cleaning and security are the secret ingredients to make the businesses get more business.
  • I agree with my wife, it's too expensive
  • Thanks Mrs. Kevin and st jameson for taking the time to 'splain
    : )
  • Kevin_on_Putnam wrote: I agree with my wife, it's too expensive

    The BID is too expensive or it is too expensive to disagree with your wife?
  • Subject: BIDS ARE GOOD FOR BUSINESS. THAT's WHY THEY EXIST!

    Of course the BID is a good thing. Property owners and business owners investing in the betterment of their own street! This is the way good-government is supposed to work. If business is to thrive on Fulton Street, security and sanitation conditions need to improve. Capital improvements and beautification will help. Marketing and holiday decorations will bring more people to the area.

    If the current businesses are not willing to change (i.e. invest in their own street) to support what the changing demographic wants, they deserve to go out of business. And paying $80 a month for this progress, is less then what they'd pay if they received one sanitation ticket a month....
  • modsquad wrote:
    You're making a judgment call based on what? Please define "down on it's luck". What would "improve the look and feel" of the neighborhood. How about replacing torn earlobe advertisements with Kenneth Cole homilies? Maybe having a Starbucks is your definition of a successful shopping district. .


    I think a measure of success would be... more potential small business owners opening up in the vacant storefronts on Fulton Street.
  • modsquad wrote:
    You're making a judgment call based on what? Please define "down on it's luck". What would "improve the look and feel" of the neighborhood. How about replacing torn earlobe advertisements with Kenneth Cole homilies? Maybe having a Starbucks is your definition of a successful shopping district. .


    I think a measure of success would be... more potential small business owners opening up in the vacant storefronts on Fulton Street.
  • Subject: Re: BIDS ARE GOOD FOR BUSINESS. THAT's WHY THEY EXIST!

    clintonista wrote: If business is to thrive on Fulton Street, security and sanitation conditions need to improve. Capital improvements and beautification will help. Marketing and holiday decorations will bring more people to the area.
    Like I said before BIDs only move in when change is inevitable. I hardly think a bunch of "Shop Fulton Street" banners and a bunch of poor people in blue overalls picking up Popeye chicken bones will bring more people to Fulton St. Furthermore BIDs have nothing to do with capital improvements. On top of that I think Fulton bustles quite nicely as is, thank you. Sorry you don't like dollar stores.

    I'm not against the inevitable change in any neighborhood. I am against the government extracting more money pretending to be the catalyst of that change. More cops maybe. No to banners.
  • Subject: Re: BIDS ARE GOOD FOR BUSINESS. THAT's WHY THEY EXIST!

    And paying $80 a month for this progress, is less then what they'd pay if they received one sanitation ticket a month....

    My understanding is that it's a lot more than $80 a month.

    Since I've moved here, Kush, Outpost, Brown Betty, Michael Allen Desserts, and Samantha's (also Bargain's R Us) have opened, oh, and the health food store and the Bodega I never use. The neighborhood is coming along. Is it improving quickly enough? In my opinion yes. There are things that I hope will improve like the abandoned buildings on Putnam and the drug situation on Grand. I'm hoping as real estate prices drop that nice new families can afford to buy the abandoned buildings and eventually the cops will take care of Grand street. I don't think taxing new struggling businesses so a "Marketing Manager" can be hired will do much. I love my neighbors and I really enjoy shopping at all the new "Mom and Pop" stores and restaurants. Why not just let events take their course?
  • Subject: Re: BIDS ARE GOOD FOR BUSINESS. THAT's WHY THEY EXIST!

    Kevin_on_Putnam wrote:
    And paying $80 a month for this progress, is less then what they'd pay if they received one sanitation ticket a month....


    My understanding is that it's a lot more than $80 a month.

    Since I've moved here, Kush, Outpost, Brown Betty, Michael Allen Desserts, and Samantha's (also Bargain's R Us) have opened, oh, and the health food store and the Bodega I never use. The neighborhood is coming along. Is it improving quickly enough? In my opinion yes. There are things that I hope will improve like the abandoned buildings on Putnam and the drug situation on Grand. I'm hoping as real estate prices drop that nice new families can afford to buy the abandoned buildings and eventually the cops will take care of Grand street. I don't think taxing new struggling businesses so a "Marketing Manager" can be hired will do much. I love my neighbors and I really enjoy shopping at all the new "Mom and Pop" stores and restaurants. Why not just let events take their course?


    Good post...Let's not forget LOX, Master Sabu(two locations), The former flower shop(now a bodega), Nail salon, Dominican Beauty Salon, Clothing store(next to countryhouse), Soule, Pharmacy, Fish&crustaceans, Olivino, Sisters Hardware, the halal restaurant and the Mosque. All of these businesses have opened in the past 5 years or less with out an enticement of a bid on fulton street. Some of these businesses may not appeal to you or you're vision of what you want fulton street to be but it doesnt make them any less viable. They way the BID included residents between Carlton and S.Oxford where there are no businesses is shady anyway.
  • Oh and by the way from what I've seen from the some of the Doe Fund folks in other places, they may add to the element many are trying to get rid of...If you know what I'm sayin'...
  • Wanted to thank you all for bringing this to my attention. I had no idea that all of the funds raised for the BIDs came directly from the owners and merchants. I always assumed that there was some kind of loan or grant program these areas were getting from the city or state. Wow.

    I found the link below which covers some of the issues discussed here. Sounds like the criticisms are spot on.

    http://government.cce.cornell.edu/doc/reports/econdev/bids.asp
  • This is interesting. It looks as if the businesses that are between Rockwell and South Oxford are doing pretty well for themselves and it does not look as if there are that many businesses to support a BID between Waverly and Classon so it is interesting that a BID is being proposed that covers those sections. I don't think the Bed-Stuy Gateway BID has become a reality yet, which would cover Classon to Troy on Fulton, so would this be an extension of that thereby making the entire stretch of Fulton from Rockwell to Troy a BID?
  • any reviews on how the Myrtle BID is doing?

    Here's its link: http://myrtleavenue.org/aboutUs_Partnership.cfm#bid

    Sanitation is huge for business, and I must say Myrtle looks pretty clean most days. Tree planting, graffiti removal, and marketing dont seem to be bad either. Anyone know the cost of the myrtle bid?
  • http://www.fultonstreetbid.bravehost.com/

    (Above is a link directly from Letitia James' website breaking down costs, etc.)

    I'm thinking that since this a done deal, then the merchants might want to think about how they can make this BID really serve their needs. Maybe some of the business that were protesting and cannot afford the new tax could apply for some kind of tax rebate from the BID? Maybe they could be first on the list for any loans that might go out for improved storefronts etc. My two cent suggestion is that the new flower boxes should have some herbs. This way, say you go to Sisters Hardware for some paint, you might be able to bring home some basil too.
  • I think of this from the perspective of what is being planned for downtown Brooklyn. Although the current financial mess has slowed development and some projects have been scaled down, the general idea is to replace what is there with higher end stuff. In a few years, when all the condos and hotels have been built, the Fulton Mall will be nothing like it is now. There will be much higher end tenants, and the bus routes will be suspended so all the condo folks can push their strollers around as they go from Pottery Barn to Crate & Barrel. Remember, the downtown BID is working in collaboration with nine BILLION dollars of real estate development projected through 2012.

    The property owners on Fulton see this coming, and they know full well that between downtown BK and the Atlantic Yards, they are sitting right in the middle (literally) of an enormous opportunity. So, it's kind of twofold. On one hand, the BID will help with safety and sanitation, but its ultimate goal is to make the neighborhood attractive to high paying tenants attracted by all the business brought in from the "new" downtown Brooklyn. The best time for us will be after things start to clean up, but before the chains move in. Enjoy the small shops while you can. The delis and mom and pop stores will suffer first. They will try to make it sound like it's for the community's benefit, but given the fact that it is the property owners themselves who created the BID in the first place, forgive me if I am suspicious of their motives.
  • Hopefully this will get rid of the rifraf and bring some normal decent stores and make it safe and nice.

    MOD NOTE: ashley is posting from the same IP as cafeaulait, who some of you may remember from previous trolly turns on this board.
  • Thanks!

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