NY Daily News: Battle in the Garden

laura b

Today's Daily News features an article about the eviction of a couple of cats from the St. Marks Ave./Prospect Heights Community Garden. I don't know the specifics of the situation (other than what the article says), but it seems like some of the gardeners' concerns could be addressed through common garden deterrents, and the part about risk to pregnant women is a myth. Not to mention the fact that the cats' caretaker has done the neighborhood a huge service by getting those cats fixed--if she hadn't, there could likely be 10 times as many cats there!

If there are any community garden members on this board, I'd like to ask you to reconsider, or at least give Ms. Bounocarti enough time to relocate them (never an easy task).

Battle in the garden

BY AMY SACKS
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Updated Saturday, January 10th 2009, 3:01 PM
Adams for News



For more than a year, Clarence and Betty have lived quietly in the St. Marks Ave./Prospect Heights Community Garden, a peaceful green oasis maintained by dozens of Brooklyn gardeners.

But now the feral cats are at the center of a heated battle between gardeners who say it's time the cats move on and their passionate caretaker, who is at a loss as to where they could go in the dead of winter.

"The only option for Clarence and Betty is to be relocated to another area where they can remain outside since they are feral and can't be adopted," said Alexandra Bonacarti, an attorney with New York County Defender Services who cares for the wild pair.

Bonacarti fears they may freeze or be injured if relocated haphazardly, or be euthanized in a shelter because they are not adoptable, she said.

In an effort to find a humane solution, the garden community has agreed to push back its eviction deadline, which is Thursday, said garden coordinator Patti Hagan. However, the original request was made last May, and they are growing impatient.

While many of the gardeners are animal lovers, she says maintaining a "peaceable" green space is their priority.

Hagan argues the cats dig up the plants and defecate in the flowerbeds, which they worry is harmful for pregnant women. "Our beds were being pooped in incessantly," she said.

They also fear the cats will prey on birds and other garden animals, and object to the shelter and feeding station, where the cats wait every morning for Bonacarti to show up with food.

Hagan also believes the garden is violating city rules by feeding a cat there.

But a Health Department spokesman said there is no health code that prohibits feeding cats in a public space.

Still, each garden has its own guidelines.

"It's the group's prerogative to say what they can tolerate and what they cannot," said Agnes Green, president of the Brooklyn-Queens Land Trust, which owns the garden property.

Bonacarti argues the cats are neither a nuisance nor a health threat. Last year, she trapped and neutered Clarence and Betty, and returned them back to the garden.

"They can no longer reproduce, and are both healthy," she said.

Despite the heated controversy, the bottom line is Clarence, an attractive large white cat with long hair and brown markings, and Betty, a black cat with half a tail, need a new home.

But relocating feral cats can be tricky, says Meredith Weiss, director of the NYC Feral Cat Initiative.

Feral cats are extremely territorial and have deep ties to their original home. But people mistakenly believe they can simply let a cat go in a new area and it will be okay.

"You can't just stick a cat in a barn and hope for the best," Weiss said.

If you think you can help relocate Clarence and Betty to a new safe haven or established feral cat colony, contact Bonacarti at [email protected], or call (646) 345-1539.

http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2009/01/09/2009-01-09_battle_in_the_garden-1.html

bkchickie

Subject: Re: NY Daily News: Battle in the Garden

Laura B wrote: If there are any community garden members on this board, I'd like to ask you to reconsider, or at least give Ms. Bounocarti enough time to relocate them (never an easy task).

The garden people seem like a reasonable bunch, and I do agree that Ms. Bounocarti deserves credit for ensuring that those cats cannot reproduce. I think, however, that this might be the crux of the problem:

"Hagan argues the cats dig up the plants and defecate in the flowerbeds..."

Yeah, if that were my garden I would be asking them to leave, too. The article mentions nothing about the cats being vaccinated against rabies. Seems like that should also be a concern.

MOD

Subject: Re: NY Daily News: Battle in the Garden

BKChickie wrote: [quote=Laura B]If there are any community garden members on this board, I'd like to ask you to reconsider, or at least give Ms. Bounocarti enough time to relocate them (never an easy task).

The garden people seem like a reasonable bunch, and I do agree that Ms. Bounocarti deserves credit for ensuring that those cats cannot reproduce. I think, however, that this might be the crux of the problem:

"Hagan argues the cats dig up the plants and defecate in the flowerbeds..."

Yeah, if that were my garden I would be asking them to leave, too. The article mentions nothing about the cats being vaccinated against rabies. Seems like that should also be a concern.

All cats that are TNR'd (trapped, neutered and released) are also vaccinated.

tajmb

Subject: Re: NY Daily News: Battle in the Garden

Laura B wrote: the part about risk to pregnant women is a myth.

Where did you go to medical school because my OB disagrees with you?

leozoeypiper

All cats that get neutered and ear tipped are vaccinated against rabies, it is the law. Rabies is of absolutely no concern.

Even if these two cats are not there, there will still be other cats that come in and defecate and dig up plants. Unless the garden is enclosed then there is no way to prevent it unless the "community" gardeners would start to use proven deterrent methods. If they think that Clarence and Betty are the only two feral cats in the area then they are kidding themselves. There will be more that take up residency there without a doubt. The cat feces is probably even helping their flowers and plants to grow - maybe they should stop and think about that. Free and natural fertilizer!

Asking for Alex to relocate the cats in the dead of winter is ridiculous. When do you ever see people out there digging in the snow? Why not give her a chance to do it in the spring or summer when she has a better chance of the relocation to actually "take". Relocation is not just trapping the cats again and dumping them somewhere else. There is an extensive process that has to be done and it is shocking that they would ask her to do it at this time.

The article also neglects to mention the countless kittens that Alex has trapped, socialized, and found homes for. Without Alex's intervention all of these cats would still be out there and multiplying. Alex has done this all on her own and deserves a lot of credit.

If you would like the garden administrator's e-mail address to voice your concern about this eviction, please PM me.

leozoeypiper

Subject: Re: NY Daily News: Battle in the Garden

tajmb wrote: [quote=Laura B]the part about risk to pregnant women is a myth.

Where did you go to medical school because my OB disagrees with you?

Your OB says this just to avoid malpractice suits - he/she is probably just going by the "better safe than sorry rule". Try speaking with another OB, midwife, or doing your own research. You may just find out that it isn't as risky as you have heard. And I guarantee that there are other OB's that would disagree with your OB. If your immune system is weak then you shouldn't be gardening anyway. And gardeners usually wear gloves and wash their hands after gardening, right? Be sure to not touch meat or unwashed produce - also risks of toxoplasmosis. The dangers are everywhere - be careful Are you going to be one of those moms running around with Purell?

tajmb

Subject: Re: NY Daily News: Battle in the Garden

Leozoeypiper wrote: [quote=tajmb][quote=Laura B]the part about risk to pregnant women is a myth.

Where did you go to medical school because my OB disagrees with you?

Your OB says this just to avoid malpractice suits - he/she is probably just going by the "better safe than sorry rule". Try speaking with another OB, midwife, or doing your own research. You may just find out that it isn't as risky as you have heard. And I guarantee that there are other OB's that would disagree with your OB. If your immune system is weak then you shouldn't be gardening anyway. And gardeners usually wear gloves and wash their hands after gardening, right? Be sure to not touch meat or unwashed produce - also risks of toxoplasmosis. The dangers are everywhere - be careful Are you going to be one of those moms running around with Purell?

And again, where did YOU go to medical school? Yes, you can always find someone out there to take up the other side of the argument and claim there is no danger. There is a difference between coating your kid in purell and avoiding known risks of taxoplasmosis.

And as for your belief that they shouldn't expect her to relocate these animals in the dead of winter, the article says they made the initial request last May.

Should they force these or other cats out of the garden? Personally, I think it's a losing battle. But make reasonable arguments against it not ones based on misleading information about medical realities or the timeline involved.

leozoeypiper

And when did YOU go to medical school. Back at ya!

laura b

Subject: Re: NY Daily News: Battle in the Garden

tajmb wrote: [quote=Laura B]the part about risk to pregnant women is a myth.

Where did you go to medical school because my OB disagrees with you?

I didn't go to med school, but this guy did:

"It is more likely for a pregnant woman to acquire toxoplasmosis from eating undercooked meat or from contacting soil without gloves," said Jeffrey Kravetz, M.D., assistant professor of medicine at Yale School of Medicine.

http://opa.yale.edu/news/article.aspx?id=3129

laura b

Subject: Re: NY Daily News: Battle in the Garden

BKChickie wrote: The garden people seem like a reasonable bunch, and I do agree that Ms. Bounocarti deserves credit for ensuring that those cats cannot reproduce. I think, however, that this might be the crux of the problem:

"Hagan argues the cats dig up the plants and defecate in the flowerbeds..."

Yeah, if that were my garden I would be asking them to leave, too. The article mentions nothing about the cats being vaccinated against rabies. Seems like that should also be a concern.

The rabies, as other folks have noted, is not really a concern.

The problem with the logic of simply removing the cats is that new cats will move in to replace them. There are too many free-roaming cats for anyone to ever completely eliminate the population. As I said, people like Ms. Bonacarti do the neighborhood a service by neutering/vaccinating the cats, thus keeping the population down.

The existing colony guards its territory, preventing unneutered cats from moving in and beginning the cycle of overpopulation again. Not to mention that the cats provide the added benefit of natural rodent control!

bricktop

I think it's kinda funny that Patti Hagan is working to evict these cats when she's worked so hard to prevent people from being evicted from the Atlantic Yards site.

leozoeypiper

Bricktop wrote: I think it's kinda funny that Patti Hagan is working to evict these cats when she's worked so hard to prevent people from being evicted from the Atlantic Yards site.

Ditto - I think that she just enjoys controversy. I was really shocked to see that she was behind the eviction. I would have thought that this would have been out of character for her.

lo kee

Bricktop wrote: I think it's kinda funny that Patti Hagan is working to evict these cats when she's worked so hard to prevent people from being evicted from the Atlantic Yards site.

Ah ha fuckin ha.

My nomination for most poignant comment of 2009, thus far.

doctorj

A bowl of chopped liver and crushed tylenol. Works every time.

modsquad

Leozoeypiper wrote: The cat feces is probably even helping their flowers and plants to grow - maybe they should stop and think about that. Free and natural fertilizer!

Cat shit is considered "hot", useless for fertilizer. Still I say keep the cats. Neutered males are very territorial. They are used like eunuchs by cat breeders to protect the harem.

laura b

doctorj wrote: A bowl of chopped liver and crushed tylenol. Works every time.

That's a genius idea. :?

Poisoning cats is not only psychopathic, it's a felony. For those less inclined to torture and kill small animals, there's a $1000 reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of persons responsible for cat poisoning. Contact Humane Law Enforcement at 212-876-7700 or Neighborhood Cats at 212-662-5761.

bibi09

If you would like to write the garden administrator an e-mail voicing your concerns about this eviction or requesting more time for Alex to relocate the cats, her e-mail address is [email protected]. Hopefully if enough of us speak up then she will at least be granted more time to take care of the relocation. Thanks!

bronx.cats

Relocating should, IMO, only be a very, very last resort. If it was
me, and I had attempted negotiating with the gardeners, and this
failed - I WOULD REFUSE TO MOVE THE CATS. The city says there is no
law preventing cats in those gardens.

Note how the article states in FUTURE TENSE "They also fear the cats
will prey on birds and other garden animals," Meaning - the cats
have not preyed and this alleged fear is pretextual.

Also pretextual is the claim that "Hagan also believes the garden is
violating city rules by feeding a cat there." The city refutes
this.

I WOULD REFUSE TO MOVE THEM.

The cats are not breaking any laws, the feeders are also not breaking
any laws. Make them cite policy or laws - and so far there is a lack
of any legal reason the cats cannot be there. WE MUST FIGHT this
constant alienation, and not give up easily. If necessary file an
injunction against them or threaten legal action.

DO NOT BACK DOWN.

sweet tea

uh, so if there's no law against my having cats in my (theoretical) backyard, that makes it okay for you to put some there?

this isn't my community garden, but if the garden membership decided no cats, it's their right to do so.

(on the other hand, while no cats actively live in my community garden, we get enough feline visitors to poop on folks' veggies and kill a few birds. so i doubt the garden will be rid of all cats by boosting these two.)

bronx.cats

UH your backyard is hardly analagous to a community garden.

UH There is no allegation that these two cats have "kill[ed] a few birds."

The fact is - more cats will replace these two - and those cats might not be fixed, will spray, might be sick, etc. etc.

The fact is - all the reasons for evicting that cats are pretextual. And now when the garden "powers" give another reason - it will be obvious that they are just continually making up reasons to evict the cats. When their past reason failed, they make up a new one.

UHHHH

bibi09

Here is an interesting article about Patti Hagan (the woman evicting the cats) having her dog stolen in 2007 and the outpouring of support that she received from animal lovers.

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/30/11/30_11founddog.html

laura b

sweet tea wrote: (on the other hand, while no cats actively live in my community garden, we get enough feline visitors to poop on folks' veggies and kill a few birds. so i doubt the garden will be rid of all cats by boosting these two.)

I think you've really put your finger on the issue here. The community garden folks can decide to evict these particular cats, but that doesn't mean there won't be cats in their garden. The reality of the situation is that because of the carelessness and cruelty of others, there's a large population of free-roaming cats in neighborhoods like PH. Given that reality, wouldn't you rather have a neighbor, like the one mentioned in the article, who gets the feral cats fixed and vaccinated, and finds homes for the friendly ones?

bronx.cats

That Hagan lady is a COMPLETE HYPOCRITE.

When her dog is lost - everyone pitched in. Yet, she desires to evict two loving cats whose only sin is using a small part of the garden as their toilet.

What a piece of work.

sweet tea

Laura B wrote: [quote=sweet tea](on the other hand, while no cats actively live in my community garden, we get enough feline visitors to poop on folks' veggies and kill a few birds. so i doubt the garden will be rid of all cats by boosting these two.)

I think you've really put your finger on the issue here. The community garden folks can decide to evict these particular cats, but that doesn't mean there won't be cats in their garden. The reality of the situation is that because of the carelessness and cruelty of others, there's a large population of free-roaming cats in neighborhoods like PH. Given that reality, wouldn't you rather have a neighbor, like the one mentioned in the article, who gets the feral cats fixed and vaccinated, and finds homes for the friendly ones?

absolutely i would. i agree with you. i just -- as a member of a community garden -- take issue with the idea that the garden isn't allowed to make decisions for itself.

caseopele

Laura B wrote: [quote=sweet tea](on the other hand, while no cats actively live in my community garden, we get enough feline visitors to poop on folks' veggies and kill a few birds. so i doubt the garden will be rid of all cats by boosting these two.)

I think you've really put your finger on the issue here. The community garden folks can decide to evict these particular cats, but that doesn't mean there won't be cats in their garden. The reality of the situation is that because of the carelessness and cruelty of others, there's a large population of free-roaming cats in neighborhoods like PH. Given that reality, wouldn't you rather have a neighbor, like the one mentioned in the article, who gets the feral cats fixed and vaccinated, and finds homes for the friendly ones?

Exactly. Strays will find their way into this garden, Patti Hagan is screwing herself by evicting these cats. Not the smartest idea alienating the one person willing to take care of them.

flo

Wow. I think it's a bit mean-spirited to attack the garden leader here. People, this woman is your neighbor as are the gardeners who I think should have the right to choose how they are going to run their garden. I agree with Sweet Tea on that one, also being a member of a community garden myself. That being said, I hope that something is worked out among all these people, preferably something that doesn't endanger the cats or involve injunctions or lawsuits. Good luck.

caseopele

Flo, Patti Hagan can choose to run that garden however she likes. But she's extremely naive (or ignorant) if she thinks that getting rid of these 2 cats will rid the garden permanently of strays. Did she do anything about the strays before this? Trap them, get them fixed, vaccinated for rabies, find homes for the adoptable ones, pay for their vet care? No, Alexandra Bonacarti did. Ms. Bonacarti took the time, effort, and money to do something about the situation and now Patti Hagan is thanking her by tossing the 2 remaining cats.

Keep in mind that I don't know any of these people personally. But I do know that there will never be a shortage of jerks who abandon their cats on the street. Which means that there will never be a shortage of stray cats. If Patti Hagan and the other community garden members were smart, they would be working with Alexandra Bonacarti to control the feral population. Instead, they're shooting themselves in the foot. When strays start moving back in to the garden, who's going to take care of them?

god

Can't they just pave it over and put in a parking lot? No more cats.

The park is just a few blocks away.

flo

Caseo-

You make some good points and I imagine those points can be made to the garden members if they haven't caught wind of them here already.

I don't think that you personally were particularly mean-spirited. I do think it was a bit much that other people were digging for info on the garden leader and trying to expose her or attack her personally like she was a wildly unpopular president for example, when she's simply the leader of a small community garden and might only be representing the views of the majority of the garden members. (I could be wrong of course and she could be a tyrannical garden-scissor wielding nutjob who eats all of her neighbor's tomatoes and secretly uses pesticides when nobody is looking and therefore deserves everything she gets, but we'd have to hear from her fellow gardeners to get the scoop there.)

I want to be clear though--I'm not calling for censorship here or saying anyone violated the rules of this forum. It's just (and perhaps this is incredible naive of me) I think that since we are talking about a small community group here there is real potential for the problem to be resolved without lawsuits, without snuffing out any cats and without calling people names.

caseopele

I sincerely hope the situation can be resolved amicably and with the cats safety in mind. I'm not very optimistic though. As for digging for info on Patti Hagan? There was a long thread right here when her dog Lady Day was stolen in 2007, anyone who's been on this board since then would probably remember it. I also remember how animal lovers all over tried to help find Lady Day and that it was a tip from one that reunited her with Ms. Hagan. I don't consider Ms. Hagan's behavior now to be "paying forward" the support she received for her and her dog.

brooklynboy3

Subject: Re: NY Daily News: Battle in the Garden

tajmb wrote: [quote=Leozoeypiper][quote=tajmb][quote=Laura B]the part about risk to pregnant women is a myth.

Where did you go to medical school because my OB disagrees with you?

Your OB says this just to avoid malpractice suits - he/she is probably just going by the "better safe than sorry rule". Try speaking with another OB, midwife, or doing your own research. You may just find out that it isn't as risky as you have heard. And I guarantee that there are other OB's that would disagree with your OB. If your immune system is weak then you shouldn't be gardening anyway. And gardeners usually wear gloves and wash their hands after gardening, right? Be sure to not touch meat or unwashed produce - also risks of toxoplasmosis. The dangers are everywhere - be careful Are you going to be one of those moms running around with Purell?

And again, where did YOU go to medical school? Yes, you can always find someone out there to take up the other side of the argument and claim there is no danger. There is a difference between coating your kid in purell and avoiding known risks of taxoplasmosis.

And as for your belief that they shouldn't expect her to relocate these animals in the dead of winter, the article says they made the initial request last May.

Should they force these or other cats out of the garden? Personally, I think it's a losing battle. But make reasonable arguments against it not ones based on misleading information about medical realities or the timeline involved.

Must one go to medical school to have an informed opinion?

I see the logic but nothing frightens me like the experts.

H