Flatbush Co-Op and Foodstamps

tybur6

OK... I spend approximately $50/mo at the Flatbush Coop simply because it's the closest supermarket to me (and the Met closes at 8:00pm) And mind you, that $50 gets me very little.

But -- I only go there when I "need" to because it's FREAKING expensive.

Now, to my point... Whenever I go in there, inevitably the person in front of me in line is buying a huge amount of stuff with her Food Stamps EBT card!! Am I alone thinking this is a REALLY poor use of the limited food assistance this family is receiving?!?!

I get trying to buy healthy and/or organic... but this may be one of the most expensive options in the entire borough.

On the news there's periodically a story about Mr. Smith and how his food stamps run out a week or two before the end of the month. What are these people doing?? Are they part of a secret program with unlimited food stamps? :?

brooklynchimp

Food stamps, cash, or credit- patrons are welcomed equally.

Snobbery in all its forms- is quiet ugly.

tybur6

Do you really think my post was "snobbery"??!

I was just expressing shock and even concern that folks with EXTREMELY finite resources have chosen the LEAST affordable option. I think of the Flatbush Co-Op as a high prices bodega that happens to sell organic products.

I'm wondering what the motivation here is... and doesn't this buying choice cause even more hardship than they are already experiencing?

brooklynjack

Are you sure the person doesn't work there and get a big discount?

darla

Even if they were a member of the co-op it's only a small discount - think it's 2%.

meredithb

I'm with you Tybur6. I've seen food stamp recipients in there too. Some items possibly can't be found at the sparse supermarkets in the area, maybe that;s why they shop there, but to buy organic vegetables with food stamps is just wrong IMO.

flo

http://council.nyc.gov/html/pr/report/ebt_report_11_20_08.pdf

Granted, farmers markets and food co-ops aren't cheap, but there is an initiative in the city to get food stamp recipients access to fresh fruit and vegetables. I don't know if that includes co-ops and I wonder if it includes CSAs.

brooklynchimp

Choice- something that is preferred or preferable to others;


If it wasn't meant as snobbery then excuse the implication.

Exhibiting precious metals or ornate garments does not engender wealth.
It simply exemplifies preference.

Using their stamps- is simply them using their stamps.

noisyjulianne

Subject: Are you serious!

So people using food stamps should only buy cheap, chemical soaked vegetables & fruit!?? What!? I don't shop for any produce at the MET near my house, b/c they usually go bad so fast, and it's really clear they don't take good care of their stuff.

Why condemn someone for making a choice to eat healthy food!!!

Jeez.

tybur6

Do any of your ACTUALLY understand how little $$$ folks with food stamps have to work with?

I'm not suggesting foodstamp recipients should be "condemned" to anything... in fact the opposite. I'm suggesting that the Flatbush Co-Op is a TERRIBLE choice for how they spend their limited resources.... that FEEDS THEIR FAMILIES... i.e., children that depend on their parent(s) making good choices.

The Natural Foods place near Vox Pop is far less expensive.

The 3 or 4 women I've seen in front of me in line paying with food stamps (I notice because the cashier always screws up), are not buying *produce* and so on.... they are buying cereals and canned goods and things you can get almost anywhere for 1/2 the price.... and yeah, i'm thinking someone who is close to NOT EATING should probably go ahead an buy non-organic oatmeal and non-organic canned tomatoes.

There's no "extra" money here...

Why does the government restrict what is eligible for foodstamps (i.e., soda and vitamins are not eligible)??

If spending $9 for a bottle of milk at the Co-Op isn't obviously a very poor decision for someone with extremely limited $$$, then maybe someone should remind them of this!!!

tybur6

Here you go.... from the New York Coalition Against Hunger.

"Average food stamp benefits are over $100 per person per month, and $200 or more for families (varies with income). That means that the average family receives more than $2,400 worth of food per year!"

TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS in food for your family EVERY MONTH! Whoo Hooo!

Why are they shopping at the Flatbush Co-Op?! They should be spending their food stamps at Union Market, Dean & DeLuca and Zabars!! Throw a small tin of cavier on top of your basket of organic produce and grass fed lamb.

houseofcakes

Hi,
I have been starting a group and conversation about starting a coop in the model of the Park Slope Coop (of which I have been a member and squad leader for 6 years now) in the CB9 and surrounding areas. If you are interested in information or becoming involved, please email me off list ([email protected]) and I'll add you to the list! We plan on having a general meeting about food issues in this area (Flatbush, PLG, Crown Heights, etc.) in September.

Best,
karen

gch

Tybur6, I understand your query, I am a food stamp recipient. So why would someone choose to buy something they can get on sale elsewhere? Good question. Maybe it's like those who shop Whole Foods, counting their pennies, literally, because there is street cred for saying that they've shopped there.

There is a valid point to shop at the coop if The Met is closed. Even more so if their produce and meats are crap. I only shop at the coop when I want organic food & I'm not near the Park Slope Food Coop of which I am also a member. There's nothing wrong with purchasing organic produce with the EBT card though I'd prefer to not spend $2.00 for a lemon...I want to be discerning.

The food stamp people encourage recipients to eat more veggies & fruits for good health. It does not cover things like toothbrushes, diapers, prepared foods, cotton balls - food is the focus here. Plus, if you're a member of the coop, they provide a small discount on top of that. It all helps. If the benefits are $200.00, then that's $200.00 less out of their pockets and it does add up & eases one's mind. This is not just my opinion, this is my experience.

davidg8089

MeredithB wrote: I'm with you Tybur6. I've seen food stamp recipients in there too. Some items possibly can't be found at the sparse supermarkets in the area, maybe that;s why they shop there, but to buy organic vegetables with food stamps is just wrong IMO.

WHY? This is an option that they'd have if it were Whole Foods or other stores. Why not? Granted, the food is more expensive and so their dollar won't go as far, but isn't that THEIR choice?

The only other option (I can think of) is to have them que up for government fruits and veg as well as gov't cheese.

meredithb

In this world or political correctness and entitlement, beggars can be choosers I guess.

meredithb

In this world or political correctness and entitlement, beggars can be choosers I guess.

pitu

MeredithB wrote: In this world or political correctness and entitlement, beggars can be choosers I guess.

The point is . . . it's not so simple.
Buying ingredients and cooking is a lot more cost effective than ready-to-eat for instance. My coop (PSFC, don't start anything with me ) has plenty of people using EBT and I'm glad to see 'em.

Would I rather someone - anyone - buy fresh veg instead of boxed mac and cheese? Hell yeah.

pitu

MeredithB wrote: In this world or political correctness and entitlement, beggars can be choosers I guess.

The point is . . . it's not so simple.
Buying ingredients and cooking is a lot more cost effective than ready-to-eat for instance. My coop (PSFC, don't start anything with me ) has plenty of people using EBT and I'm glad to see 'em.

Would I rather someone - anyone - buy fresh veg instead of boxed mac and cheese? Hell yeah.

pitu

houseofcakes wrote: Hi,
I have been starting a group and conversation about starting a coop in the model of the Park Slope Coop (of which I have been a member and squad leader for 6 years now) in the CB9 and surrounding areas. If you are interested in information or becoming involved, please email me off list ([email protected]) and I'll add you to the list! We plan on having a general meeting about food issues in this area (Flatbush, PLG, Crown Heights, etc.) in September.

Best,
karen

Right on, Karen! Care to start a new thread about your future Coop on this or the Crown Heights board?

pitu

houseofcakes wrote: Hi,
I have been starting a group and conversation about starting a coop in the model of the Park Slope Coop (of which I have been a member and squad leader for 6 years now) in the CB9 and surrounding areas. If you are interested in information or becoming involved, please email me off list ([email protected]) and I'll add you to the list! We plan on having a general meeting about food issues in this area (Flatbush, PLG, Crown Heights, etc.) in September.

Best,
karen

Right on, Karen! Care to start a new thread about your future Coop on this or the Crown Heights board?

meredithb

pitu wrote: Would I rather someone - anyone - buy fresh veg instead of boxed mac and cheese? Hell yeah.

True dat, but would I rather see them buy three cucumbers instead of one organic one for the same price? Hell yeah.

chuleta

What I don't understand is people passing judgement on how much food stamp recipients should and shouldn't pay for their food. If they're buying organic, they are trying to better themselves. Organic food is by default more expensive.

It's not constructive criticism. It's not even informed criticism. You're judging based on a few minutes of observation, and don't know what that person's overall spending habits are. Really. You don't know.

Unless someone is harming you with their behavior (o dangerous purchases of pricey organic food! The horror! Save the children!), I also fail to see why anyone would care about something as petty as whether some stranger is spending $2 on a lemon or not.

I have a sister who was on food stamps for a few months when she and her husband were out of work and had a daughter to think about. She hid it from our family, out of pride and not wanting us to offer her money.

It's hard enough to be on food stamps. People don't need to be judged in addition to whatever they are dealing with.

chuleta

Also, the member discount at the Flatbush Coop is 15%. If you make smart choices and buy sale items, that's not insignificant, even though Flatbush is not one of the cheaper coops around.

meredithb

If you are getting a limited amount of money from the government why not try and stretch that money as far as you can? That makes sense to me. I do not know what their spending habits are? Well I do, I know they buy expensive organic food!

I still believe a person can buy more non-organic food then organic food with $100, 15% discount or not.

IMO, if one can humble themselves enough to ask for free money for food, they can humble themselves enough not to eat organic.

darla

The discount is only 3% unless you volunteer some hours there.

shishkab

pitu wrote: Would I rather someone - anyone - buy fresh veg instead of boxed mac and cheese? Hell yeah.

Here, here. I applaud any folks who choose to make conscious choices about their food. It's unfortunate that the produce options in our areas are so limited in terms of quality. Organic or not, the produce at the Flatbush Coop is good quality so I can see why people would choose to go there.

I am lucky. I have enough income and viable transportation options that I can choose to travel beyond my neighborhood to find the best fresh food I can. Why would I begrudge someone who didn't have the flexibility I do for attempting to do the same thing?

meredithb

shishkab wrote: I am lucky. I have enough income and viable transportation options that I can choose to travel beyond my neighborhood to find the best fresh food I can. Why would I begrudge someone who didn't have the flexibility I do for attempting to do the same thing?

I wouldn't either until they get a government handout of a limited amount of food that most likely needs to be stretched until the next month and buying produce at three times the cost of a regular supermarket does not seem the most practical use of government money.

But hey, I guess there's enough waste in government anyway that an organic cucumber doesn't matter.

mylkshayk

Honestly, my first thought when I read about the lady buying organic produce with food stamps was "Good for her!" She is a grown woman, thus, she can make her own choices as to how she budgets her money. If she wants to pay $7 for a cantouloupe (or whatever it was), she has a right to do so. It sux that organic food is "the food of the elite" (because it is usually so much more expensive than non-organic food). It is unfair that poor people are stuck eating veggies that have been sprayed with pesticides... or canned stuff/white bread, etc.

BTW, the two health food stores on Cortelyou are not the only supermarkets in the area. MET foods is right across (or maybe diagonally across) the street from the FFC. And C-Town is on Coney Island Ave between Bev and Cort. So there ARE two large supermarkets if you don't want to spend money on organic co-op goods.

Back to the issue of food stamps: a woman buying organic food at the co-op does not irk me. What bothers me is when I see people in designer clothes, punching away at their Blackberries, while paying for stuff with food stamps! I mean, if you can afford a Blackberry, do you really need food stamps? I think not!

(Sorry this is a rambling post without much point...)

orbitboy3000

Subject: Cost-efficient Nutrition

Hi everyone! (new here, first post!)

I just wanted to chime into this thread and say that, nutritionally speaking, it is so much better to shop at an organic market than to shop in a market with rotting vegetables, chemically-infused, highly-processed foods. One of the the more important things for someone to learn from a state of poverty is that they are worth taking care of themselves and that their well-being is vital to sustaining or creating a better life. This ratio of food to money may not make sense if you think about it only coming from a place of cash value, but when you think about having less food with more nutrition vs more food that just fills your belly with toxins, I'd hope that some of you can see the value in anyone spending a bit more on the benefits of health over the benefits of saving a dollar. In the end, by taking care of ourselves, so much more is benefited than the pocket.

I hope this helps.

Orbit

mylkshayk

Thanks Orbit, you articulated what I was trying unsuccessfully to put into words above!

orbitboy3000

Subject: The Richness of Poverty

mylkshayk wrote:
Back to the issue of food stamps: a woman buying organic food at the co-op does not irk me. What bothers me is when I see people in designer clothes, punching away at their Blackberries, while paying for stuff with food stamps! I mean, if you can afford a Blackberry, do you really need food stamps? I think not!

Keep in mind that a lot of people who are in positions where food stamps are being used do not always fit the downtrodden images that we would think need help. For some, there are things that were owned before the current hardships, so a suit and a blackberry doesn't always mean someone is buying decadent things while using foodstamps. For others, these things are borrowed for the important steps in getting back into the work force. Some organizations loan out suits and cells for those who have promising opportunities. Beyond that, New York City is extremely expensive and most people in poverty will have most of their income go to rent and food. The fact that food stamps helped them to be able to afford a minimal plan on a blackberry and a suit or two is just one of the many points of being on foodstamps.

I went through this whole thing already when I first moved to Flatbush and saw people filling their carts with groceries paid for with food stamps and then loading them into Escalades, or knowing neighbors on foodstamps who then threw out huge boxes from their new LCD HDTVs. It made no sense to me. SO I finally asked.

The responses I've received have been humbling. From the explanation that the Escalade is leased at a price not much different from any other family vehicle and the entire family chips in to help pay for it, to the TVs being gifts from extended family to help bring something of luxury to a life with little freedom to do so on their own.

Sometimes the littlest things can help the downtrodden or poor to feel a bit of a lift in spirit to keep on going, keep in trying, and if that takes a Blackberry, suit, tv, or a nice vehicle for the family, so be it.

All of what I said is barring those who really do exploit the system, but they are eventually busted.

The most important thing to remember is that we just DON'T KNOW the conditions or stories about other people's lives. We just don't. And it behooves us to move beyond suspicion and contempt toward those less-fortunate and maybe just try to be as good to each other as possible.

ORBIT