Classon Ave Condo

se3nyc

So I'm new to the forum, but have been following close for a few months now. I'm seriously thinking of putting in an offer into the new condo on Classon Ave. off Lincoln. Even though I'm somewhat new to the area, I've been going a lot during the day and night past few months and I've really fallen in love with prospect Heights/ CH area and get excited thinking being apart of the community.

From following a lot of the comments on here and other boards some people are making the area seem really rough like it's living in east new york of Brownsville and I'm gonna have to watch my back 247! I just find it hard to think its as dangerous as people are making it seem to be for a young white professorial. Maybe these are based on fear and generalizing people that are different from them???

As a first time home buyer I'm more afraid of the quality of the construction of the building. The apt and building seems well built to me and other people I have brought, but we are buy no means architects! Has anyone heard any horror stories about this building while being built?? I don't really trust all the brokers. Anyone have any tips to really find out the history and how well it is constructed so I don't get screwed in the long run??? Thanks so much for your thoughts and any other info about being a smart move to invest in PH/CH!

ladybrooklyn

"Maybe these are based on fear and generalizing people that are different from them???"

I lived in the new building at 527 Lincoln Place; I loved the neighborhood and thought the people in the area were the nicest. Everyone said hi, would stop to chat on the street, etc...and I felt right at home. However, there is a lot of drug activity on that block of Lincoln between Classon and Franklin, and there were several shootings in the area, including one murder right on our corner. I was not naive when I moved there and was aware that these things happen, but when my building started getting broken into (more than once, and during the day when people were home) I became uncomfortable.

So fear, yes, but not based on "generalizing people that are different from them." I wouldn't be so quick to make that assumption about peoples responses or opinions. There are real safety issues to take into consideration, and keep in mind that things are a lot different in the summertime. I think as long as you are careful and aware of your surroundings you will be fine.

whynot_31

<<<< could not have put it better than ladybrooklyn.

xlizellx

I agree with both above. I work on the border of East Flatbush and Brownsville. Yes, there is a different feel in this neighborhood than those, but it's still a neighborhood in Brooklyn where you need to be safe and aware - and where terrible things still happen.

That said - is this the place with the supposed $1.3million condo?

eastbloc

We bought here over two years ago, and feel as safe as we have anywhere else in the city, certainly the East Village where I lived the previous six. The neighborhood here is friendly, has great transportation and the amenities are constantly improving. And it's sufficiently diverse that no one really stands out.

Drugs are a reality and are sold everywhere. For what it's worth, I see very little open-air drug dealing. Most of it has gone indoors from what I can tell. In any case, it's mostly harmless for those not directly involved in the trade. I don't see much of a connection between this and the break-ins, other than those happen city-wide as well.

The Prospect was built and signed off after the era of the biggest excesses of corruption at the Department of Buildings had passed, so I'd venture you don't have too much to worry about as far as the building collapsing or not getting a permanent certificate of occupancy. If you're still nervous, you can hire an inspector.

And consider some of the other, older, more established co-ops in the area -- you're paying top dollar per square foot at the Prospect, so you'd do well to familiarize yourself with the alternatives.

trumystic

I think the area is changing and like all parts of Brooklyn its a patchwork. Some blocks are good some are bad or just not good. I was looking at apartments in the neighborhood and ended up not getting the places I was interested in on Lincoln Place or Sterling Place btwn Classon and Franklin ( had to do with the buildings as well as the blocks). I was interested in renting so its much less of a commitment.

For some perspective, as a single woman if I am walking late at night I avoid those blocks if I can. And I also tell my elderly mom to do the same when walking around during the day. This is not to say that I think someone will club me on the head or something. But more like why purposely occupy the same space as known criminal elements when I can take another route? I have no interest in being an innocent bystander who gets caught up in things.

Anyway given the changing demographics of the neighborhood I have a hunch the days of these drug dealers are numbered. I have no factual basis to support this. Just feel that with rents rising the apartments are going to be turned over or the blocks will reach a critical mass where neighbors will create an environment so uncomfortable for dealers.

So I think that if you are in it for the long haul you can probably just ride out some of the sketchiness of some of your neighbors especially knowing that 99% of them are good peeps. On the otherhand, you might think that for the amount of money you are paying for this condo you want a good building on a good block.

This neighborhood has a lot to offer you just have to find the balance of what is important to you and your wallet.

trumystic

ASIDE If this building is on Classon between EP and Lincoln Place than its in Crown Heights. RULE OF THUMB If its east of Washington than you are in Crown Heights. Dont believe the realtor doublespeak or they'll have you thinking from Classon all the way to New York Ave is STILL Prospect Heights. Dont believe the hype!!!

se3nyc

Thanks for all the responses! I guess it may have seemed a little naive to jump on people's responses about safety, but as a New Yorker it's kinda second nature to always be aware of your surroundings and just use street smarts. I do realize that area will have some more crime issues then maybe others in BK. So it is something to think about. I just see more of an upswing to the area then going down.

Thanks for the info about the building eastbloc. I've looked into some co-ops and actually maybe even like them a bit more then a new type condo but I kinda just want to stay away from the whole coop board thing.

And I think that is the building with the 1.3 apt in it. Closings haven't gone through, so it's hard to know the final price. I would be shocked if it got that much, cause I do think most of the apts are over priced...

capt. planet

What does being in Crown Heights mean?

Is this the Crown Heights east of Albany or Utica, filled with crime and drugs? Or the area of Crown Heights west of these avenues, home to lovely landmarked brownstones, improving business districts and many new condo developments?

As one who's spent a lot of time recently on Schenectady and Bergen Avenues, I can say even those "bad" parts of Crown Heights are rather benign.

So why are certain readers so hung up on a name? Is it they're afraid of sneaky real estate creeps?

Paranoia has a price.

Just get informed, listen with your ears, watch with your eyes, and forget all of the hype about "Oh, that's in Crown Heights!"

ntfool

Capt. Planet said:

What does being in Crown Heights mean?

Is this the Crown Heights east of Albany or Utica, filled with crime and drugs? Or the area of Crown Heights west of these avenues, home to lovely landmarked brownstones, improving business districts and many new condo developments?

As one who's spent a lot of time recently on Schenectady and Bergen Avenues, I can say even those "bad" parts of Crown Heights are rather benign.

So why are certain readers so hung up on a name? Is it they're afraid of sneaky real estate creeps?

Paranoia has a price.

Just get informed, listen with your ears, watch with your eyes, and forget all of the hype about "Oh, that's in Crown Heights!"

From my point of view, "Oh, that's in Crown Heights!" should be a point of pride for the medium- and long-term residents because we love our neighborhood, not a "Oh no, don't live there." sort of thing. Particularly, as you say, the area between Washington and Albany Aves. I believe the point that was being made above is that realtors tend to convince those unfamilar with our corner of Brooklyn that they are showing a sale property with false advertising. There's nothing wrong with living in Prospect Heights. There's nothing wrong with living in Crown Heights. But pricing tends to be steeper in the former, unless an unctious realtor can convince some rube that they are buying in an area that they are not.

whyfi

^^^ I'll sit here and chuckle while you inquire about Captain's line of work.

whynot_31

While I chuckle, I'm going to ponder the various meanings of, "A sucker and his money are soon parted".

Clearly someone who thinks his home's value is largely based on whether it is East or West of Washington Avenue is a prime customer for a realtor, irrespective of the realtor's unctuous qualities.

However, the newbie se3nyc seems to be asking some good questions. He/she seems to be aware of the risks of the market, as evidenced by the statement

I don't really trust all the brokers.

and thoughtful inquiries regarding building construction and neighborhood quality of life.

As a result of these inquires, and my firm belief that people have various preferences, tolerances and tastes, I believe that s/he will find a condo s/he likes.

I'm glad s/he is considering living on Classon Avenue. It is one of many small neighborhoods within the macro neighborhood of Crown Heights.

Living a mere 500 ft from CH, I have a lot of friends who live there. They love it, and I have yet to hear of any of them engaging in crime.

se3nyc

I was really trying to be careful with saying Crown Heights or Prospect Heights regarding Classon Ave, that's why from my original post i used ph/ch. It really is a hot topic! lol. People seem to get really pissed off about it. Which I somewhat understand. I think all the brokers are trying to say this is "Prospect Heights." I know on a map or after Washington it is officially CH. Does it really matter though if your that close??? The area seems great no matter what the name is! I think all this only helps the hood grow for the positive.

whynot_31

I completely agree, se3nyc.

I see the border as petty as important at the same time.

...and love living here.

trumystic

What's in a name?

I moved to Prospect Heights a few years ago- imagine my surprise when I heard from folks that have lived in the area for 20+ years "Oh you mean on the other side of Flatbush- you mean Crown Heights".

Now, I live on Bedford and was chatting to a work colleague about our neighborhoods. I said I lived in Crown Heights and then asked him where he lived. He paused and said "Uh I live near Prospect Heights". I inquired further and learned that he lived one block over from me.

I think that what an area is called is very important. Names have incredible power. I am not an CH oldtimer but I would be very pissed to hear only negative things about my neighborhood tagged "Crown Heights" and all the supposedly positive things tagged "Prospect Heights". Its not an accident that this process of Other-ing and stigmatizing is happening at the same time that the demographics are changing.

Borders and names changes aside, whats important to the OP is finding a place where s/he can be comfortable and house/apartment proud. But I also happen to think part of being house/apartment proud is liking your neighborhood and the people in it. And one way we share that sense of neighborhood pride is proclaiming "I live in Crown Heights".

ntfool

WhyFi said:

^^^ I'll sit here and chuckle while you inquire about Captain's line of work.

Oh no, I've been an active lurker and occasional poster here for enough years to know what his profession is.

By the way, Trumystic, great post!

whynot_31

whynot_31 said:

I see the border as petty as important at the same time.

Should read:

"I see the border as petty and important at the same time." ...but I didn't catch the typo within the 1 hr allowed for editing. I think most of you got the meaning despite the typo, but wanted to be sure.

Yes, I couldn't agree with trumystic more: A HUGE part of a unit's value is the nature of the neighbor's and the neighborhood around it.

As an owner, se3nyc should not only consider his/her tastes in noise and environment, but also guess at those of a potential buyer in the event that s/he sells it 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now. Monetary appreciation is a good thing.

When real estate pros say "it is all about location, location, location", they are right, but you should ask yourself what are the differences between each location.

se3nyc seems to be on the right track.

se3nyc

I agree with you trumystic. I don't really think anyone was saying living in "crown heights" was a bad thing in these posts though. Yet, I'm sure that A LOT of people may have bad connotations with it. I guess your co worker was one of them. lol. I live in Jackson Heights now, so I always get the "ohhh. that's nice" followed by an awkward silence.

trumystic

se3nyc how come you arent buying in Jackson Heights? My sister lived there for years and everytime I complained of not being able to buy anything she always replied "Thats cause you are only looking in Brooklyn. Try Jackson Heights".

In terms of multicultural neighborhood, with pretty good "amenities" and good housing stock with proximity to Manhattan its a great value. I know I am not supposed to say this on a BK board however. I have this thing for Brooklyn so wasnt able to imagine myself in Jackson Heights (despite all the housesitting I did and the house envy). Queens has so much to offer but I am not there yet if you know what I mean.

se3nyc

Great questions. I love Jackson Heights ( Astoria, Woodside),all great areas. People are so friendly VERY safe, etc. The problem with JH is its all coops! They have no condo's. Nightlife kinda limited as well. Without getting into my life story, I am kinda limited to condos only. I also kinda feel BK is just a better investment for now. But if I was starting a family and knew I would be in one place for along time, I would look a lot more in those areas. Astoria is pretty expensive though. But i know what you mean, I have a Queens thing but I think I'm ready to make the jump to BK.

eastbloc

Trumystic said:

I was looking at apartments in the neighborhood and ended up not getting the places I was interested in on Lincoln Place or Sterling Place btwn Classon and Franklin ( had to do with the buildings as well as the blocks). I was interested in renting so its much less of a commitment.

For some perspective, as a single woman if I am walking late at night I avoid those blocks if I can.

I wonder why you would avoid Sterling between Franklin and Classon? It seems like one of the nicer blocks around to me, though of course I'm biased as I live here

ntfool

Its certainly not a bad block, but between the large parking garage, more apt. buildings as opposed to multi-fmaily townhomes, big bar on one end and the train tracks below, it has more of a commercial/industrial feel to me than a residential block.

trumystic

se3nyc, I totally understand given the lack of condos in Jackson Heights. Though I disagree with the investment potential comment. I guess it depend how much money you can spend now and how much you are waiting to cash in to get your return on investment. I think the condo prices in the area are already inflated so how much can they go up in a few years. So if you plan to resell in 5 years then I guess I agree. But lets say you have longer like 10 years then Queens make sense. Even with all the commodification of Brooklyn, folks will only be able to pay inflated prices for condos in "prime" BK and "fringe" BK for so long. Rightnow, this area is still fringe. Red Hook,PLG, Ditmas Park and others too. But the further you go out in Brooklyn the longer your commute time. Where else is next? East New York? So at a certain point it makes sense for people to think about whether they are getting what they paid for and about commute times to work so. So thats why Jackson Heights make sense.

eastbloc, in terms of avoiding Sterling: it partly has to do with the fact that I walk in straight lines to get home. So I avoid it 1) cause of a vibe I get 2) rats- I have seen too many when I have walked there day or night I HATE RATS!!! 3)if I continue I have to walk down Sterling between Franklin and Bedford. Someone else doesnt have to tell me "this is a bad block" --for me it doesnt have to be logical I just follow my gut.

whynot_31

Trumystic-

I completely agree with you about the block of Sterling between Franklin and Bedford being a bad one.

The recent murder covered in this article, as well as the detailing of drug dealing on the block by commenters speaks volumes to me.

http://prospectheights.patch.com/articles/man-shot-to-death-on-sterling-place#photo-5256091

I hope the drug dealers either move out on their own or get arrested.

(readers, sorry for the slightly off topic post. Let's continue to talk about whether our new potential neighbor is making a good decision as he considers a condo in a different part of the neighborhood)

eastbloc

ntfool said:

Its certainly not a bad block, but between the large parking garage, more apt. buildings as opposed to multi-fmaily townhomes, big bar on one end and the train tracks below, it has more of a commercial/industrial feel to me than a residential block.

Parking garage and bar? I think you've got your blocks mixed up.