western Crown Heights property values soar?
  • A small, 100 x 100, commercial lot at 977 Pacific St (near Grand Ave) has an asking price of $1.5M.

    Few people that pay that much for a site are going to leave it dormant.

    One can also expect the area land owners will band together and lobby for zoning that allows it to be residential, not commercial/industrial . ...more power to them!

    ....In 5 years, will there be vacant lots in western CH left?

    source: http://realestate.nytimes.com/sales/detail/773-2475109

    to buy it... http://www.c21amhomes.com/results.asp?mls=2475109


  • That's $150/square foot of land, and it's hardly a small lot. It's enough for five townhouses. Assuming it's R6B, each townhouse could be up to 4000' square.

    I'd say that's pretty damn cheap considering what the ex-community garden space on Franklin sold for.


  • I believe it is presently zoned commercial.


  • It's apparently zoned "G7 -- Unlicensed Parking Lot". Not sure what it takes to change it, but I'm guessing it's one of the reasons it's so cheap.


  • ...much of that area has similar zoning. Hence, the junkyards and auto body places have remained despite the surrounding property boom.

    I'm of the opinion that this site is being listed for as much as it is (given its zoning) because people are speculating that they will eventually get the zoning changed to residential.

    I suspect that few (if any) people are going to create a warehouse or auto body place on a lot that size of $1.5M; similar land elsewhere is far cheaper.

    A CLEVER GROUP OF INVESTORS might buy a few lots, store some cars for locals at monthly rates, and use them as valet lots for Barclay's events.

    This would allow said owners to break even until the area is rezoned, when they will make a large profit.


  • Wow I actually bid on this property many years ago. It was for this lot and I think the building that is/was next to it. It was being auctioned off for a tax lien. I wish I could remember how much but it was maybe $15-20,000.


  • Actully this lot is zoned "M1-1". It's classified for a "G-7" use. That means it was or is being used as a garage. This is a manufacturing or industry use. All industrial uses are zoned "M" or manufacturing and the entire area between Bergen and Atlantic from Underhill to Franklin is zoned M1-1.

    Getting any of the area changed to a residential use will require going through ULURP, or uniform land use review process, as required by the city charter.

    One of the early stops on the ULURP trolley is the community board. By going to the CB 8 Housing Committee meetings on the first Tuesday at CNR resident on Classon bet. Park and Prospect, you can find out which developers are applying for a variance and what they want to do with the site.

    Ahh, the power of community!


  • Capt-

    Do you think it will sell for approximately the listing price?

    Have prior applicants been successful at getting a variances out of CB8?

    ...do you (like me) think it is only a matter of how MUCH time it will take before a successful ULURP process is begun for the area?


  • Does not matter if the asking price is 1.5 million or 50 million. What matters is what they will get for it!


  • A lot of the sales pitch behind this site has to do with its proximity to the Barclays Arena and Prospect Heights.

    I wonder if we are experiencing a bubble.

    Is the best time to sell land NOW, while the optimists are salivating over the arena's potential for increased land prices, and before reality arrives?


  • I certainly think we're in a _listing_ bubble of sorts, considering what asking rents and prices have been as of late.

    There's little evidence (aside from perhaps The Hole) that there's an actual spike in sales prices that isn't commensurate with the area's actual desirability.


  • I walked by this lot last night. There is already housing on Pacific nearby, East and West of the site.

    I wish I knew how hard it was to get a variance, so I could predict when this area will radically change into condos. ....I will miss getting things welded locally, but enjoy watching even more people shop on Washington Ave.


  • eastbloc said:

    I certainly think we're in a _listing_ bubble of sorts, considering what asking rents and prices have been as of late.

    There's little evidence (aside from perhaps The Hole) that there's an actual spike in sales prices that isn't commensurate with the area's actual desirability.


    Yep

    Ive seen this in other... "arenas"

    People always ask too much. When people start paying too much then its time to start worrying (or cashing in)

    I would be weary of buying one of those old car lots... I imagine there would have to be a lot of soil remediation before the city would deem it habitable for residential usage.


  • eastbloc said:

    It's apparently zoned "G7 -- Unlicensed Parking Lot". Not sure what it takes to change it, but I'm guessing it's one of the reasons it's so cheap.


    Capt. Planet said:

    Actully this lot is zoned "M1-1". It's classified for a "G-7" use. That means it was or is being used as a garage.


    1) Buy parking lot

    2) Build parking garage as-of-right under present zoning

    3) Wait for arena and apartments to open

    4) Profit


  • A parking garage that was constructed in such a way that it could be converted to residential at a later date seems wise....


  • Coming in 2020:

    Corcoran is proud to offer its latest modern condo lofts offering:

    THE GARAGE


  • loftering.


  • Self storage buildings are frequently built in a way that allows for easy conversion to residential as well.

    Zoning should not always be a fixed designation.


  • whynot_31 said:

    Self storage buildings are frequently built in a way that allows for easy conversion to residential as well.

    Zoning should not always be a fixed designation.


    You think? Storage units are usually not roughed out for plumbing or electric. It doesn't seem like it would be any easier to convert than any other non-residential property.


  • whynot_31 said:

    I walked by this lot last night. There is already housing on Pacific nearby, East and West of the site.

    I wish I knew how hard it was to get a variance, so I could predict when this area will radically change into condos. ....I will miss getting things welded locally, but enjoy watching even more people shop on Washington Ave.


    You can always get things welded at my place.


  • whynot_31 said:

    Capt-

    Do you think it will sell for approximately the listing price?

    Have prior applicants been successful at getting a variances out of CB8?

    CB 8 Housing Committee wants to see 20% or more affordable housing in any proposal. In the case of 802 Bergen Street, the Board granted a variance based on a 20% affordable component. With the Board support, City Planning approved the variance. The developer then sold the lot to a new owner and the owner built the current building there without the affordable component. The new owner claimed that the affordable commitment applied only to the previous owner, and City Planning agreed. You need a sense of humor if you get involved in community politics. :)

    Marty's housing assistant said the only guarantee that affordable housing will be get built is to have the area rezoned with an affordable housing requirement included in the zoning. When Tish hired a consultant several years ago to develop such a proposal, City Planning rejected his proposal as lacking sufficient incentives for development.

    So folks, I ask you, what's the plan B here?

    ...do you (like me) think it is only a matter of how MUCH time it will take before a successful ULURP process is begun for the area?


  • eastbloc said:

    You think? Storage units are usually not roughed out for plumbing or electric. It doesn't seem like it would be any easier to convert than any other non-residential property.


    Not to mention kitchen + bathroom ventilation... they would have to gut the place, cut through the slabs... it would be a bit of a nightmare. Maybe not much less than building from scratch, when you figure in demo costs.

    Do you own some kind of shop? I have been looking for a place where I can do some metal work. I am trying to make a bracket for my motorcycle headlight and I just need a bandsaw, drill press and maybe a little welding. Email me, yankobiah at yahoo.


  • CTK and Eastbloc-

    I read somewhere that it is a common technique to build new storage units in a way that the slabs are ready for plumbing and vents.

    ...this is how I would want my storage building built.

    Capt-

    Do the folks at CB8 realize that as long as their are few financial incentives to build affordable housing, zoning is merely going to keep vacant lots vacant?

    The new owner claimed that the affordable commitment applied only to the previous owner, and City Planning agreed.

    I'd be interested in seeing if off-the-book payments were involved.

    I'm also now more willing to consider properties that have such restrictions. I'm all for restrictions that apply to others.


  • Where is this potential conversion? I can't imagine anyone wanting to live on Atlantic Avenue.


  • just off Atlantic, at Pacific and Grand


  • Seems to be still for sale:

    http://www.coldwellbankermoves.com/property/details/2913146/MLS-2475126/977-Pacific-St-Brooklyn-NY-11238.aspx

    I suspect the owners have been refusing to accept a lower price because the area to improve over the next year or so, and conditions for getting a variance may further improve.


  • The site recently sold for $1.9M.

    Note, the asking price in the first post of this thread (June 2012) was $1.5M. It may have changed hands a few times since then.

    http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2014/03/photographer-buys-vacant-land-in-crown-heights-for-1-9-million/
  • The CB did disallow that nearby warehouse to be rezoned for the artists wanting to build lofts in it, in an effort to preserve industrial jobs. I suspect that effort will be fruitless, however, and if the area stays zoned industrial, it will probably sprout hotels, which are allowed under industrial zoning and have thus become common in other industrial-zoned areas with valuable land, like the Garment District and Gowanus.

    Although de Blasio does seem to be tending toward allowing people to build big, so long as there's lots of affordable housing, even in the neighborhoods (versus the Bloomberg downzonings http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/city-hall/2014/02/8540743/quiet-massive-rezoning-new-york?page=all), so we'll see where that goes.
  • I suspect the definition of Manufacturing and Industrial will be stretched beyond my imagination, and cater to classes with lots of education.

    Artisinial Iron Workers. Maybe a brewery or a distillery.

    ....the auto salvage yards are almost gone.
  • 'With some exceptions, commercial uses, including hotels and business, professional and government offices, are permitted in manufacturing districts'
    Yep. The land here is way to valuable for heavy industry. And though scrapyards and auto shops serve a useful purpose, they don't need to be anywhere with good subway access— it'll be a long while before NYC gets its shit together in terms of building new subway lines, so for now we'll just have to make the best use of land near what we've got.

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