The Vacant spot left by Climax, 775 Franklin (corner of St Johns)
  • A few weeks ago, this space was vacated.

    Readers, what would you put there?

    Or (more specifically) what kind of business do you think would be supported by the neighborhood to the degree that it could survive?


  • TD bank, dunkin donuts, Starbucks, a spa, NYC pet, dog grooming, Zumba classes, a Greek restaurant any of those are good to me. You little mom and pop stores better watch out your rents will most definitely rise after your lease expires!!!!


  • If I was able to use the prior sign, I would totally make it a porn or sex toys store.


  • Now we all know where your head is at why not!


  • You can't expect me to act like I am older than 14 when given a florescent sign that says Climax and the local success of Babeland. http://www.babeland.com/

    Returning to the subject at hand, I don't think I would open a pharmacy or a bank, because I think we will get one of those in the building that is being constructed at Franklin and EP, and I don't want that much competition.


  • I want competition! Competition is good for the consumer!! Bring on more coffee or maybe a full fledge liquor store it's obvious the people in the area love to drink !


  • Competition is definitely good for the consumer. ...However, I was thinking from the proprietor's point of view. Whoever rents this space will likely take a similar view.

    I don't think the neighborhood would support another "no name" coffee place in that location. However, a Starbucks might survive there, and get a few of the other places to either "up their game" or go out of business.

    I would definitely open up the side that faces St. Johns. Glass all around.

    A good housewares/kitchen store might be able to make it, like the one operated by Tarzanian in Park Slope.


  • tbh i'm bummed that climax(xxx) has closed. Was always a nice-looking store and, at least up until a few years ago, seemed to do ok business. It seemed to be an anchor of the strip back in 01/02...


  • The house ware store closed about 7 years ago after my good friend retired now it Dutch boy burger with their dry rolls! I say we need a big name coffee shop let's leave the imitators and go for the real thing. What I would really love is for a supermarket to come and provide delivery service that would be the day and it would bring jobs love it


  • I don't think Climax is actually closing. Is had a sign up stating it was closed for renovations. Or is that supposed to be code for going out of business?


  • Missd90-

    Yes, I saw that sign too. However, I have not seen any renovations, all the merchandise is gone, and I can't imagine renovating a clothes and shoe store to that degree.

    When Old Navy "renovates", it just moves stuff around. Hence, if we are going to reach Climax, I believe we need a new partner.

    ....one who can move their things around in a new, better way.


  • Climax is now on Fulton st between Nostrand and beford next to pretty girl.His customer base is down there now he wants to rent the Franklin ave location. Please note the new location is much larger with more inventory. He is making his money he tells me things are going really well!


  • Coffee is coffee is coffee. I dont want a chain store here on Franklin. No to Starbucks and that horrible french roast. Lets keep the small innovative stores going along for as long as we can before the kiss of death of chain stores. IckY! wE have a great liquor store between stm Marks and Prospect, by the indian rest. also Wino(t). More Dining and drinking would keep franklin Ave a Mecca for consumers. This is a good size shop for a sit down place.


  • The chain store is coming whether we like it or not! I see another 7 th ave with Barnes and noble and high price rents TSarina I hope u can afford a 1 bedroom at 2,800 per month. Trust me its happening in crown heights


  • I hate to be the thread killer but everyone is way off. The lardlord is not renting the space. They are using the space for themselves, cant say what. Sorry. Not for rent, no bar, no coffee, no book shop, etc. BTW Bob and Betty's does deliver just call in 718-778-45-42


  • Thanks Pulp and Bean!

    ....I look forward to whatever it becomes, and hope they have a very profitable idea/plan.

    ....some of us need a lot to Climax.


  • Would never go in the pulp and bean he is racially insensitive He always looked down on blacks and was never very nice that's why is core business is non black.


  • Well lets hope the landlord of climax opens up a 24 he coffee shop or bagel shop I have to lobby him for that!


  • Compare also happily delivers. I would love a really good pet supply store in the area somewhere.

    chloeroyale, if you have never and would never go into store, how would you know what race it's clientele is?


  • I have been here a very very very long time I knew the father too. The blacks never really supported him. Trust me I know his clientele plus he admits to the other merchants in the area that the blacks never supported him


  • Most of the places opening (and upgrading), seem to be making their places more expensive. I suspect that this is out of necessity, because low income people are being replaced by higher income folks. One has to adapt to continue to make a profit....

    I suspect the owner of Climax will come back in a fancier, more expensive form.

    I wonder if he will still do clothes and shoes....


  • Why not what happens is gentrification pushes out the minorities .


  • In situations where the minorities don't have as much money as those who wish to move in, it certainly does.

    ...but you'll get pushed out no matter whether you are a minority or not if you don't have as much money, as good of a credit rating, or as good as of a job as the person you are competing with ...regardless of any minority status.

    Money, money, money.


  • Why not money does dominate and usually the minorities don't have it! Last hired first fired!


  • Money doesn't always dominate, but I have concluded that the smart business owners and landlords see only one color:

    Green



  • Why not please that is not always the case most of the time it is but not every time I been doing this since I was ten and was never trained to think that way thank GOD for that .


  • If business owners and landlords only saw green a lot people who are struggling would be on the streets and hungry we would have to step over them on the streets many landlords took in people for free after sandy


  • I agree, it is silly to do everything for money alone. Doing things for family, morals and friends counts for a lot in my book.

    However, when you don't do things strictly on the basis of money, things get very complicated very quickly.

    ....people wonder why you did not sell to (or serve) the person with the most money, and then they reach conclusions about your motivations that are not necessarily true.

    When you do something for the highest bidder, no one makes incorrect assumptions about your motivations. You want money.


  • From whynot_31: "Money doesn't always dominate, but I have concluded that the smart business owners and landlords see only one color"

    Really depends on your definition of "smart", don't you think? Sounds to me like you equate "smart" with the acquisition of money. That's a belief many have, our society has trained us that way for a loooooong time. But that view will have to change, otherwise....we all become extinct. A change in values is the only thing that will save us and our planet. That has to begin with the re-evaluation of our obsession and lust for money.

    You can be a pusher of your own bad learning, or you can help re-educate for the tomorrow that we all need for survival. The choice is yours.

    To me, compassion and happiness and the well being of all our brother/sister humans and respect for the planet we depend on for survival...that is all smart. Extremely smart. Much smarter than money.


  • Alwayslookaround,

    Eventually, we will all become extinct. Every animal eventually becomes extinct, no matter whose definition of "smart" it uses.

    See you at the new, "improved" Climax?

    I don't think it will meet our needs for sexual and self actualization, but hey, it isn't my store.

    ...businesses are allowed to change to better serve their customers and/or their bottom line.


  • I suspect Climax was not on that corner to be a charitable organization. Their goal was to make money, and they apparently failed to make it.

    May the next one prosper.


  • He always looked down on blacks and was never very nice that's why is core business is non black.

    Interesting. I didn't know the role identity politics played in retail. Maybe it's for the best that is changing?


  • Eastbloc-

    Climax made money for years on that corner, as did Bob and Betty's (previously known as Fishers) on its corner.

    What I think is being missed here is the concept of Market Segmentation.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_segmentation

    By serving a specific segment of the market, a store is able to bring value to the marketplace and make a profit.

    Let's take Climax:

    In its previous incarnation, it was a store that catered to persons who wanted the latest in specific brands and styles of clothing and shoes. This formula allowed it to survive (prosper?) until the area's consumers changed. Now, I believe it has chosen to change its products, branding and marketing to appeal to a slightly different demographic.

    There was nothing inherently "bad" or "good" about its prior store, or the future one. ...locals will either miss the old version, or enjoy the new version depending upon whether they are part of the new target market.

    Let's take Bob and Betty's (which owns Pulp and Bean):

    As a result of increased competition from big supermarkets like Compare, Fisher's was basically losing all of its low income customers, largely because it did not have the economies of scale to compete in the new environment. In addition, the number of low income people in the neighborhood has been shrinking.

    B&B then decided to pursue a segment that was actually growing: People seeking small, fancy portions because they lived alone, or split an apartment 4 ways. It opened a coffee shop too: Pulp and Bean.

    ...same speech re: good and bad.

    Pursue green. If one direction doesn't work, or no longer works, try another.

    Here are the ways to perish:

    If you try to sell to people who don't want your product or service, you perish.

    Regardless of someone wants your product or service, if they do not have green, you perish.

    The green shoppers are the ones who count.


  • I don't know anything about Climax, but one of the posters above suggested they struggled because of the lack of loyalty from black shoppers. I propose that if this is what a business hinges on, it's not long for this world.

    As you say -- it's only the green shoppers that matter.


  • The previous poster was discussing Pulp and Bean's lack of black shoppers. Nothing was said in that regard about Climax.


  • When I have been in Pulp and Bean, they served everyone with green.

    I think it follows that if more people had green AND liked their coffee, they'd serve more people. Hence, I believe that Pulp and Bean would like everyone to have more money and like its coffee.

    Returning to Climax:

    It is free to offer whatever mix of products and services it chooses, and should sell them to whoever desires them and has green.

    P.S. Credit cards are often not literally green, but still count as green in this discussion.


  • Please note even when the area was black they did really support him


  • He may not have been offering goods that all segments of the market could afford, or desired.

    Very few businesses have a customer base that represents every segment of the surrounding demographics in the same proportion as census figures.

    They simply can't.


  • Well now he definitely not offering what the minorities would want plus he has a flat and cold affect.


  • Do you like the Compare Supermarket?

    It is big enough that it is able to offer products that cater to people of different incomes and with different tastes and preferences.

    It has a enough cashiers that at least one of them seems to be happy and having a good day.

    The readers of this board were really excited when it opened. If you read the comments on these threads, it sounds like they wanted to give a big hug to the staff and dance in the aisles when it finally opened:

    http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/topic/anyone-know-when-the-new-compare-foods-supermarket-on-st-marks-and-classon-openi

    http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/topic/the-new-compare-foods-is-the-best-supermarket-in-the-phch-area


  • The previous poster was discussing Pulp and Bean's lack of black shoppers. Nothing was said in that regard about Climax.

    I see my mistake.


  • Why not its ok but my father died there it was the old Bkyn Jewish hospital er and I am a big diet snapple drinker and they don't have the amounts I need . Why not I spend a lot of money on food my family was the #1 shopper at path mark on 13 th st for years. Thats one of the largest part of my budget


  • I don't have a car or a large family, so it doesn't make sense for me to trek to Pathmark and stock up and have to use car service to get home.


  • Why not I got u, but please remember there are two sides to a coin I use compare just to fill in what I forgot to buy or what I run out off. The staff is friendly . How do feel about Neptune diner?


  • I go there once and a while, but prefer Purity diner over on Underhill and Dean.

    ...I don't like Tom's on Washington, mostly because I won't wait in line for breakfast. They give people oranges and cookies while they wait in line, but I just keep walking to Purity.

    I only feel like having a nice brunch once and a while, so I'm glad there seem to be enough other people that like fancy bunches to keep those places open for when I finally want to go to them.


  • Chloe-

    Did you get the info I've bolded from the owner himself?


    chloeroyale said:

    Climax is now on Fulton st between Nostrand and beford next to pretty girl.His customer base is down there now he wants to rent the Franklin ave location. Please note the new location is much larger with more inventory. He is making his money he tells me things are going really well!



    It seems to be contrary to what pulpandbean posted.

    Maybe one of you has more current information than the other on what he plans to do?


  • Why not I will double check it


  • Oh TSarina keeping fixing it up I see u getting all the green u desire Thank You!


  • Climax was in a prime location, with plenty of windows both on Franklin & on St. John's (plus, the B45 bus stops right there). I can't imagine it being vacant for long.

    After living in this neighborhood 5 years, we finally have a variety of good restaurants to choose from (by contrast, when we first moved here in 2008, our only option was Chinese takeout from behind a plexiglas partition).

    What I'd love to have is a Goodwill or Housing Works thrift store on Franklin or Washington. And, don't shoot me, but I'd love a nearby CVS/Duane Reade/Walgreens. Those mom & pop pharmacies just don't cut it when it comes to stocking a variety of cosmetics and sundries.


  • No thrift shop please we have that rosebud operation on franklin


  • AP-

    At some point I may be mature enough not to smirk at you writing "climax was in a prime location", but not yet.


  • chloeroyale said:

    No thrift shop please we have that rosebud operation on franklin


    True. But Rosebud only carries clothing and accessories, right? It'd be great to have a thrift or Goodwill-type shop that also carries housewares, books, board games, etc. Sometimes you just need an extra lamp or old t-shirts for the gym.

    Also, the Goodwill on Fulton (bet. Franklin & Classon) is the closest we have for donating stuff--it'd be convenient to have one nearer to the Eastern Pkwy. end of things.


  • whynot_31 said:

    AP-

    At some point I may be mature enough not to smirk at you writing "climax was in a prime location", but not yet.


    HA! I knew I couldn't get one past you, whynot!


  • As per an article published today:

    Business owners say that rising commercial rent has played a roll in pushing out long-standing establishments, and even a few of the newer ones that tried to capitalize on the change.

    For instance, Climax, a store selling urban clothing at 775 Franklin, is moving to Fulton Mall in Downtown Brooklyn, a popular shopping destination among minorities, which itself is undergoing a radical redevelopment.

    “We’re not dead yet,” said Abraham, a twenty-seven-year-old employee, who like several people interviewed for this article preferred not to give his full name. But, he conceded, “business is down. Everything started changing.”

    .

    http://narrative.ly/2013/01/the-ins-and-the-outs/


  • Almost two months later, March 5, 2013:

    The sign still says Under Renovation, but no carpentry equipment is evident. Likewise, there is no For Lease sign.

    This makes me believe that Pulp&Bean again has the news, and that the new tenant will be chosen from a very short list.

    Starbucks, are you reading? This corner could be high enough traffic for you. You could kill many of the coffee shops on my coffee shop deathwatch thread in one, quick swoop.


  • Hello. Whynot it seems as if coffee shop closings seems somewhat amusing for you and other posters on this site. Do you know that people put lots of hard work, time, and money into these businesses? It seems that the desire to have Starbucks to open has consumed you. Do you not think 5 coffee shops is not enough to choose from? Where was starbucks when there was no coffee option? Why is there a need for them now?? Is it for the bathroom? ? Is it for wifi?? Is there some thing missing that the shops on Franklin or else where are not doing? If so suggest it!

    As far as climax goes the spot is not for rent. I think I said this before. The owner is looking to open the space for themselves.


  • While I enjoy trying to predict what coffee stops will close over the coming year and what type of stores will replace them, it is not because I have forgotten my years of hard work in food service.

    While some may disagree, I see the present mix of businesses as STILL lagging behind the changes in residents, and their preferences. I think a salad-bagel place, or one that sells burritos would be awesome.

    Commenting on the local buisness mix seems to be a NYC hobby: http://evgrieve.com/2013/03/7-eleven-fallout-east-village-groups.html

    My case may be unique, I haven't had a cup of coffee in over 20 years.


  • pulpandbean said:

    Hello. Whynot it seems as if coffee shop closings seems somewhat amusing for you and other posters on this site. Do you know that people put lots of hard work, time, and money into these businesses? It seems that the desire to have Starbucks to open has consumed you. Do you not think 5 coffee shops is not enough to choose from? Where was starbucks when there was no coffee option? Why is there a need for them now?? Is it for the bathroom? ? Is it for wifi?? Is there some thing missing that the shops on Franklin or else where are not doing? If so suggest it!

    As far as climax goes the spot is not for rent. I think I said this before. The owner is looking to open the space for themselves.


    hahaha

    if you think the coffee places offer everything everyone needs, then don't worry if Starbucks opens. you'll drive Starbucks out of business!


  • Starbucks is more for the yuppie type that likes "brands" (and would more likely live in a more-branded neighborhood), rather than the indie/hipster/arty type that more of the young folks here are from (myself included). They prefer indie coffeeshops with "cafe culture", and generally dislike Starbuck's super-dark roast. Notice how few Starbucks there are in the rest of Brownstone Brooklyn, especially compared to Manhattan.

    The upside to Starbucks is that its part-time jobs offer health insurance.


  • ehgee said:

    Starbucks is more for the yuppie type that likes "brands" (and would more likely live in a more-branded neighborhood), rather than the indie/hipster/arty type that more of the young folks here are from (myself included). They prefer indie coffeeshops with "cafe culture", and generally dislike Starbuck's super-dark roast. Notice how few Starbucks there are in the rest of Brownstone Brooklyn, especially compared to Manhattan.

    The upside to Starbucks is that its part-time jobs offer health insurance.


    i hate life


  • Over the last 2 years, I perceive the indie/hipster/arty type in the neighborhood as shrinking in number along Franklin. I suspect many are being priced out.

    When I talk with those who appear to meet the indie/hipster/arty description that remain, I find they are young lawyers, teachers, bankers, etc. who merely dress differently than I.

    It seems they increasingly own in the the neighborhood, not rent: http://e2.ma/message/db6uf/xyhnig


  • Even so, the lawyers/teachers/whatever who choose to live here generally have tastes that tend toward indie/hipster/arty.


  • That is an interesting idea, but I will withhold my opinion on it until the chain stores arrive.

    Then, the residents will be able to choose between the indie/hipster/arty and the bland boring "suburban mall" alternatives they are believed to not prefer, or even despise.

    ....I suspect many will go to the latter when they think no one is looking, because they are secretly suckers for predictability, and familiarity.

    Perhaps "enough" will go to the chains that the arty places go under.


  • So, Climax has now been closed since early January.

    Over 4 months.

    Needless to say, this is a pretty long time to go without a Climax.

    Especially for men.

    ...anyone have any idea what the latest is?


  • As one of those lawyer/teacher/whatever types who has lived in the neighborhood for a long time with hipster/arty/indie preferences, I would hate to see a Starbucks go in. It's depressing enough that one is going in on Flatbush.

    Climax was always nice because it added some variety to the street. Between Washington and Franklin enough coffee shops and bars/restaurants have gone in.

    The Western edge of Crown Heights has a great opportunity right now for building a area with character and it would be a shame to see it become just another replica of Midtown. We already have our mini Parisian feel with trees going up on Eastern Parkway by the museum, why spoil that with the same old crap you can get in Oklahoma.

    I'd love to see more shops - the kitchen goods suggestion was great or another clothing store.


  • While I love the indie stores, I'm not sure how much money they make.

    I have the feeling that some of the indie stores are owned and/or run by people who have some accumulated wealth and therefore don't have to make as much money as the franchise owners and managers.

    ....some of the franchise folks spend everything they have to get in on a brand that they feel confident will succeed, and don't have the luxury of taking a big risk or helping the world with its problems.


  • May 14: Still no activity visible.

    this store has been closed for about 5 months.


  • July 19: Still no tenant.

    Still no renovation. Still not listed with any realty firms that I am aware of.


  • Sept 4th: No change.


  • October 16

    I have been given permission to reveal the news, but not the source:

    After being outbid over a year ago for the space presently occupied by Centanii,

    Starbucks is now in "final negotiations" with the landlord who owns the space formerly occupied by Climax.

    The rumor that started the "Starbuck's coming to Franklin Avenue?" thread was correct, but I was sworn to secrecy for over a year.

    http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/topic/starbucks-on-franklin-ave



  • Oh Pooh! There goes the neighborhood!


  • I'm interested in seeing just how fast Starbucks can get the renovations completed and get it open.

    Franchises have in house design pros, regular contractors they use, and can navigate the city permitting process much more efficiently than small independent businesses.

    If Starbucks really wanted to, I bet they could get this open by Jan 1.


  • I don't think I Starbucks is technically a franchise. A franchise is not owned by the parent company but the owner uses their branding, corporate procedures, supply chain, etc. I think Starbucks is simply a corporate chain.


  • I don't mind this at all. I think some of the coffee places nearby have gotten away with subpar coffee and pastries for the prices they charge, and some inconsistency. This may make them have to up their game. There will be a crowd for this. Maybe not the cool hipsters, but us oldsters who just want strong consistent coffee, decent selection of snacks and seating space. Although I will say that Nimba and Crosby are still close to my heart.

    I think it will be time to revisit that long coffee-house-deathwatch list that was circulated a while back.


  • The aforementioned Deathwatch thread:

    http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/topic/the-coffee-shop-deathwatch-thread

    A thread that started when a poster heard a rumor that Starbucks was looking a different site about a year ago: http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/topic/starbucks-on-franklin-ave


  • Damn youre fast! Who's the frontrunner, nouvelle vague?

    Let it be an example that you can be off the beaten-path and do well if it you it right (glass shop, and crosby seems to be doing fine), and on the deathlist if done wrong (nouvelle). starbux isnt immune to this. they dont do well by doing it poorly. my stock price says so.


  • Given the amount of traffic I expect Starbucks to generate, I expect the LL to be able to demand an even greater rent increase from the adjacent storefronts (777, 779) when it is time for lease renewal.

    It is a really good time to be the Dry Cleaners. They have an expanding market.


  • I love the dry cleaners.


  • This article talks about how the layout of Starbuck's locations are key to their success.

    https://medium.com/what-i-learned-building/a844ec3343da

    I'm not sure I agree with it completely, but am certain that someone, somewhere is putting decades of coffee shop design experience into designing 775 Franklin Avenue.

    I predict by Dec, a bunch of trucks will descend on the storefront and begin working away in a very systemic fashion....


  • oh contractors, where are you?Are you driving from Seattle?
  • It took a little digging, but I have learned Starbucks has not begun building out this site, because it may have a better offer. Starbuck lovers, do not fret, an alternate location nearby is being considered.Starbuck haters, do not celebrate, ^^^.
  • Could this be what is behind the Brief and Not-So-Wondrous Life of Fez Hummus Bar?
  • Fez closed because some of the investors lost confidence in the operator....they refused to lose more, and cut him off.Keep thinking.
  • The corner retail at Franklin & E.Pkwy. If the space was too large to attract a single tenant, maybe they'll chop it up to house a couple.
  • A Starbucks in 1000 Dean for all the people working in the office?
  • Fez closed because some of the investors lost confidence in the operator.…they refused to lose more, and cut him off.
    I had heard this, but the source wasn't sure. Thanks for the confirmation. Any word on what's next for the place?
  • LOL - a Starbucks in the supposed artisinal epicenter of Brooklyn?? that would be marketing poison.
  • LOL - a Starbucks in the supposed artisinal epicenter of Brooklyn?? that would be marketing poison.
  • And the winner of the above guessing contest is:

    Goldemi

    Starbucks is presently in negotiations for a storefront in the building about to open at EP and Franklin, but is continuing to maintain its stake in the former Climax location in case it can't pull off that location. 
  • Yay!  What's the prize?
  • Nevermind, the prize if this happens is having a Starbucks so close to me.
  • @goldemi1 ... walk in and use the secret phrase ("I'm with Brooklynian"). They will give you room for cream at no extra charge.

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