Prospect Heights vigil for Trayvon

raulism

A few of us gathered last night to have a vigil for the Trayvon Martin verdict. Even though the trial was down in Florida, we wanted to gather here in front of Tom's, which is where people gathered after MLK was shot in 1968. Our neighbor Matt Weinstein took some great photos:

http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/30544896_CbXKPT#!i=2635256684&k=zmqtD22

The people who were there wanted to continue organizing on the neighborhood level, so if you're interested in joining, send me a PM.

pmca

The death of Trayvon Martin is a tragedy but I don't believe any of us know all the details of what happened to know whether justice has been served. The media and politicians have pushed this case as a racially motivated murder when there is no evidence to that effect. Emotions have run high. The jury had to look at all the available evidence and follow the rule of law. I think that George Zimmerman was definitely an overzealous community watch person and Trayvon Martin was a typical hot-headed teenager and both their actions contributed to the horrible outcome. As people gather to protest the verdict in this case, I wonder where the outrage is for all the young black lives lost (particularly in Chicago) in black on black violence. One recent example is 16 year old Darryl Green who was found dead in Chicago. His family believes he was killed because he refused to join a gang. Why doesn't this story and countless others like it get the attention that the media and politicians have given the Trayvon Martin story? My heart goes out to the family of Trayvon Martin but I

can't help feeling that people are being manipulated and exploited for ratings and political ends.

tsarina

pmca, well said. It is a tragedy, and there is blame on both sides since it takes two people to have a fight.

whynot_31

You folks can debate the decision and tragedy if you like, but I will restrict my comments to this gathering.

It was organized by Ede Fox (if you use raulism's link, she is the woman in the V neck with the short blond hair leaning against the fire box) and her campaign.

Like many, she is upset by the verdict. As a candidate for City Council, she is consistently using this and other opportunities to directly send the message "what is important to you, is important to me". She is reaching people I believe are likely to vote.

And it would not surprise me if she won.

http://www.google.com/search?ei=sY7kUdakDuTE4APyzoDoBA&q=ede+fox+city+council&oq=ede+fox+c&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.1.0.0l4j0i22i30.6294.16121.0.18920.11.11.0.0.0.0.845.3994.0j3j2j0j1j3j1.10.0....0...1c.1.19.mobile-gws-serp.lSdMyvoCnPw

bohuma

I think that our collective anger at this senseless tragedy should be directed at the legislature and governor of Florida that encourage the vigilantism typified in this case. The laws of many states actively encourage citizens to act as judge, jury and executioner - remember the Pasadena,TX shootings in 2007, two Hispanic burglars shot dead, in that case there was no arrest, let alone a trial.

eastbloc

Trayvon aside, I'm fine with burglars being shot dead.

whynot_31

Eastbloc-

You are certainly not alone in your moral comfort with burglars being shot dead. The concept is known as "the Castle Doctrine":

wiki wrote: Each state differs in the way it incorporates the castle doctrine into its laws, what premises are covered (abode only, or other places too), what degree of retreat or non-deadly resistance is required before deadly force can be used, etc.

Typical conditions that apply to some Castle Doctrine laws include:[citation needed]

•An intruder must be making (or have made) an attempt to unlawfully or forcibly enter an occupied residence, business, or vehicle.

•The intruder must be acting unlawfully (the Castle Doctrine does not allow a right to use force against officers of the law, acting in the course of their legal duties).

•The occupant(s) of the home must reasonably believe the intruder intends to inflict serious bodily harm or death upon an occupant of the home. Some states apply the Castle Doctrine if the occupant(s) of the home reasonably believe the intruder intends to commit a lesser felony such as arson or burglary.

•The occupant(s) of the home must not have provoked or instigated an intrusion; or, provoked/instigated an intruder's threat or use of deadly force.

In all cases, the occupant(s) of the home: must be there legally; must not be fugitives from the law, themselves, or, aiding/abetting other fugitives; and, must not use force upon an officer of the law performing a legal duty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

jack krohn

I see no reason for a trial with the burglars in Texas and am happy to hear that no public money was wasted on one.

I also have no problem with burglars being shot dead. Once you break into a place, you are risking your life. Call it an employment hazard.

bohuma

I have a real problem with citizens imposing extra-judicial executions on thieves, even in Saudi Arabia thieves aren't executed, they lose a hand, but not their head.

The Texas criminal code does not impose a death sentence on burglars.

whynot_31

bohuma-

Not to be coy, but I believe the Castle Doctrine allows the "death sentence on burglars", not as a matter of policy but as a matter of practice.

The doctrine seems to appreciate that a homeowner does not have a lot of time to ascertain why someone has broken into their home (to burglarize? to rape? to assault? to murder?), and then grants them the right to use deadly force.

As detailed on the above wiki link, some states are certainly more comfortable with the concept than others.

Even in the states where the doctrine is most valued, the law stops short of allowing extra-judicial executions on thieves.

Please allow me to explain....

As a kid, my dad told me a story of a case that happened in rural Ohio in the 50's. It seems someone's vacant home was repeatedly being burglarized while the homeowner was at work. The thieves simply came in the front door, and the police did nothing but take reports of the crime after it occurred.

Frustrated, the man rigged a shotgun to a string so that it would discharge when someone came in the front door. A few days later, the thief opened the door and was instantly killed.

In this instance, someone was extrajudicially killed for merely being a thief. The owner of the home was arrested and found guilty.

In 2013, I believe every state in the US would pursue criminal charges in the same situation.

When (and if) we ever stop doing so, we will be allowing extra-judicial executions of thieves/burglars in both practice and policy, and I would not feel we are being moral and just.

whynot_31

Returning to the original topic:

whynot_31 said:

You folks can debate the decision and tragedy if you like, but I will restrict my comments to this gathering.

It was organized by Ede Fox (if you use raulism's link, she is the woman in the V neck with the short blond hair leaning against the fire box) and her campaign.

Like many, she is upset by the verdict. As a candidate for City Council, she is consistently using this and other opportunities to directly send the message "what is important to you, is important to me". She is reaching people I believe are likely to vote.

And it would not surprise me if she won.

http://www.google.com/search?ei=sY7kUdakDuTE4APyzoDoBA&q=ede+fox+city+council&oq=ede+fox+c&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.1.0.0l4j0i22i30.6294.16121.0.18920.11.11.0.0.0.0.845.3994.0j3j2j0j1j3j1.10.0....0...1c.1.19.mobile-gws-serp.lSdMyvoCnPw

In the interest of fairness, the candidate she is opposing, Olanike Alabi, is hostng an event next week just a little east:

On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 you are invited to participate and join in a discussion to chart the community’s next steps following the verdict in the Trayvon Martin shooting trial.

Community Discussion: Where Do We Go From Here?

Wednesday, July 24, 2013

6:30 pm SHARP!

First Baptist Church of Crown Heights

450 Eastern Parkway

Brooklyn, NY 11225

(718)778-1200

The church is located at the corner of Rogers Ave and Eastern Parkway.

eastbloc

"I have a real problem with citizens imposing extra-judicial executions on thieves, even in Saudi Arabia thieves aren't executed, they lose a hand, but not their head."

Shooting at an intruder in the home is not execution, it's self-defense.

Surely you can tell the difference.

bohuma

Certainly I can tell the difference. The case I was alluding to was the Joe Horn shooting controversy where Mr. Horn spied two Hispanic burglars robbing his neighbor's home. The neighbors were not home and this was known to Mr. Horn. He called 911 and the operator informed him that the police were on the way. Horn entered a conversation about the law with operator, who urged him to stay inside his own home and let the police deal with the burglars. Horn then went outside and shot both burglars dead. A Houston grand jury declined to issue a bill. Mr Horn, who was safe and sound in his own home, killed two people committing a non-capital offense. I find that offensive to justice.

whynot_31

Finding cases in which it seems clear a Jury made the wrong decision is quite easy.

Designing and Implementing a system which is better than the jury system is quite difficult.

...asking someone (or some group) to accept the decision of people they do not view as peers is REALLY difficult, and a known hazard of the system.

booklaw

I'll bet Mr. Horn's neighbor didn't mind!

booklaw

I'll bet Mr. Horn's neighbor didn't mind!

whynot_31

I bet she didn't mind either.

...which begins the blurring of the line between one's own home and one's neighbor's.

...and the neighborhood.

...and the role of the police vs private citizens vs for hire security companies

Problem: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-da-halts-i-40-drug-stops-after-criticism-from-judge/article/3864488

whynot_31

Problem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9FaLZc_alGI