Another mugging on Underhill

jayce wrote: Am I the only one that sees the irony of this post? The "let's walk together, you DAB" stuff is amusing at best. maybe the best way to make the neighborhood feel more neighborly is to just stop being here. stop reading. stop posting. stop lambasting. stop whining. log off. and try smiling to the people that you pass on the street. saying hello. helping each other. acknowledging each other.

while i think this board started with good intentions and i keep hoping to see glimmers of those intentions still, mostly this board is a way for people to presume pseudo-anonymity and say the things they would never say to someones face, only to have everyone respond with vitriol. and in the end it makes our real life neighborhood far less neighborly because everyone assumes that the people they pass on the streets are the ones lambasting them.

i gotta tell you, i like the neighborhood more when i am not reading here. sure i like to be informed, but i'd take ignorance and friendliness any day of the week over the "be my neighbor bitch" tone of this entire board now.

this is why i took my last hiatus. i made the mistake of coming back. so tell me what i already know... that i should leave... and carry on with your bickering. and maybe one day this board will either get shut off and people will have to be nice to each other again, or the whole neighborhood will erupt.

+1, =D>

Subject: Re: Self Help

Hamilton wrote: [quote=Hamilton]Do what was done in Boro Park, the community set up a volunteer group who patrolled their community in cars or vans with video cameras , cell phones and walkie talkies.

If there was a crime in progress they would contact the Police and video the criminals, it worked, why not give it a try.

Having lived in Boro Park for a while the patrol you talk about is a fantastic program and very, very well organized. I would love to know how they got the funding for it.

************************

Hamilton wrote: Unite Don't Fight

Agree 100%

Again I apologize to Lulu's mama and the other posters for derailing this thread

*************************

You may want to contact Community Board 12,[Boro Park] they can guide you through the process of obtaining funds.
Phone# 718-851-0800
Fax# ....718 851 4140
e [email protected]
Wolf Sender is the District Mgr.

Obtaining funding will probably be easier then recruiting people to stand up for their own rights

You may want to watch the Fifties western High Noon so you'll know what you may come up against.

Good Luck

MOD NOTE

BE. NICE.

you'll notice that's in the site rules.

i'd remove the nastiness from this thread, but it's too embedded to excise neatly. further name-calling or other hostility is subject to removal, and its perpetrators are subject to time-outs from the board. be advised.

also, while fear-mongering is a frequent response to violence, please bear in mind that in-fighting is also a common outcome. please, folks, let's work on building that beloved community dr. king used to talk about.

pitu, while I totally hear you... its not one bad apple anymore.

the last thing you feel on this board is true neighborliness.

just go back to the posting about when Carol Simon was killed and only 2 people expressed any kind of sentiment for her. look at when the firefighter died in the line of duty and no matter how hard he tried KWOAC couldn't get people to give a crap.

this board has become selfish "this is what happened to me" or worse still... "oh you got mugged? well, I'd have done this instead" or "this new restaurant that opened is mediocre or crappy." the tone of the board has changed. its not in the least bit empathetic. nor constructive. nor community-inducing.

once upon a time it was. but its time even the regulars admitted things have gotten really ugly around here. otherwise why are there so many locked threads and reminders to be nice. doesn't mean the people that i've met through here won't be just as good of friends to me. and doesn't mean that i won't meet more of you. but this place is a downer all the time now. and more often than not its pretty hateful too.

what can I say?
"Be the change you want to see"

Of course, you might not care about seeing it here, which is fair enough. This is a message board, not where we live.


p.s.
stacey, we were posting at the same time. I didn't read what you wrote pre-redacted, but from what I see you behaved perfectly. Nobody has to take being bitched at, or called a bitch or whatever that was.

I don't think it's all that bad. I think a lot of the nastiness can be pinned on a pretty small group of people, which is something the mods are always trying to figure out: balancing a trollish poster's right to be part of the discussion against everyone else's right to have some civility.

Even though it's annoying, I'm sure the bitching against the newcomers in PH for instance pales in comparison to the bitching that went on the last time the demographics changed 40 yrs ago or whenever it was. If we had internet back then I'm sure there would be some interesting posts from the 'old-timers' of that day. I think pettiness & nastiness have always accompanied human interaction, and will continue to for the foreseeable future.

And let's not forget about all of the supportive posts that pour out when something bad happens, all the enthusiastic restaurant reviews that have crossed the board, and all the friendships the board has fostered. It's not that bad.

Anyway, it's a blink of an eye since all of our ancestors were living in huts and praying to rocks. I think it's cool that there's any good stuff happening on the internet at all.

jayce wrote: call me an idealist-- you would not be the first, and most certainly not the last. but i would really like to see this board transition into something more heartfelt, respectful to one another, and truly neighborly. alot of the drama in the neighborhood really could be addressed by people actually looking each other in the eyes and saying hello and acting neighborly. not driving around with cameras and watching for problems.

pitu, to your point... create the community you want. and that goes to real life too. you want to feel safer here? talk to people. meet people. learn people. be a neighbor before you complain that people aren't neighborly. this board is great for venting, but i don't feel any more true neighborliness out on the streets. quite to the contrary. as the membership here has grown, the feeling of distance and lack of communication on the actual street had likewise followed suit.

for what its worth, i am the crazy dykey-looking red-headed girl sometimes in a red sox baseball hat. if you've seen me on the street you'll know I smile at everyone. I say hello to about half the people i see, even if I have no clue who you are. and if you say hi back, I am gonna tell you to have a good day and genuinely mean it. cause its who I am. i'm not hiding behind some vaneer or online persona. me online is me in real life. and I am so tired of this neighborhood being so active online and so distant in person. so if you see me, and you see that I'm smiling at you... smile back. i'm a nice person. i'm guessing you are too and thinking it would be fun to actually get to know more of you beyond just this little board.

**************************
I think your statement traveling around with videos looking for problems was a misunderstanding it was to record who is creating the crimes and prevent them from harming others, not to alienate the community.

Do you feel if the victims of crimes on this board smiled more they would not have been assaulted

If it works for you let your smile be your umbrella

jayce wrote: [quote=Hamilton]I think your statement traveling around with videos looking for problems was a misunderstanding it was to record who is creating the crimes and prevent them from harming others, not to alienate the community.

I am not actually saying that. What I am saying is that if, in your heart, you are expecting to find harm from others, you will find harm from others. Its a self-fulfilling prophecy, in a lot of ways. If you are out there looking to find people doing something wrong, you will always find that. How about instead going around with a camera and finding all the beautiful things in this neighborhood and posting that instead.

listen... you go to the corner of Park and Underhill and you will find, still, even on January 23rd, the most beautiful holiday decorations. The couple in this house have decorated their house... all 3 stories of brick, with beautiful lighted snowflakes. And in their corner yard is a blow-up santa globe and the nativity scene. January 23rd and its still there. And every time I pass it I keep hoping it stays up year round, because it says something about the people they are. There is love in that decoration. It's not for them-- they don't pass it like the rest of us. Its for the neighborhood. Its for all of us.

So Hamilton, my point is, don't obsess about the crime. This neighborhood... my neighborhood... isn't about crime. Its not about preventing something from happening. It's about taking the time to open your heart to all the people here that aren't committing those crimes. There may be some bad elements in this area. But overwhelmingly, the people here are nice and kind and good people. If you live your life reactive to the potential to crime, you will always find what you look for. But if you open your heart to the people around you you'll find there are a lot more people here who will be friendly and open and caring to you than would hurt you or mug you or whatever else.

This board paints a picture of this neighborhood that is rife with assault and mugging and this group of kids and that group of whomever. This neighborhood is rife with genuine, caring, loving, empathetic, real people. I would love to actually find a day when this board caught on.

ps: hamilton... i was mugged on the corner of park place and vanderbilt. read my history and you will see it. but i don't let that one incident define my neighborhood. and its been my neighborhood long before and long after that moment. and i have plenty of empathy for the man who is now behind bars because of that incident.
************************
I'm not looking to find harm from others ,i'm looking to protect people from harm .

look in every community there are a few who subject everyone to hostile activities and I agree with you that a neighborhood should not be judged by a few dirt bags

But don't give up reality, if the problem is ignored it won't be resolved

I feel you are very sincere and loving person and I respect your opinions and hope i don't appear to be challenging your philosophy,just be careful
Hamilton

I think you've read a lot into my post that wasn't there. but again, thats kind of how online forums go which is why this spirals so out of control. so i'll say this. look back over my posts. you'll see more often than not I am the voice in the wind yelling about not blaming the victim of a crime by implying the things they could have done better, which in essence brought it on themselves. amusingly, if you find the post a few years ago when I was mugged that was exactly the reaction I got here. Not only am I not implying that the people who get mugged are victims of choice, I deep down in my core don't believe that. I am both a survivor of assault way back in my past and I spent years working on behalf of battered and abused women and children. i don't believe any person makes themselves a victim. you could walk down the street naked with air traffic controller headsets on and if you are assaulted the fault is entirely in the hands of the person who has chosen to assault you. my proverbial resume on this topic is now wide open for your inspection. so let's start with not presuming things are being implied that are not.

secondly, while I applaud people talking about the crime here, again... read the words, not the feeling you are ascribing the words, you will see my original post in this thread was a reaction to the "be my neighbor you DAB" turn this took. That is what I object to. Post about what happened to you. If we are all friends in this neighborhood, as I believe we should be, I genuinely care about what happens to you. But the vitriol that seems to inevitably ensue is what I find reprehensible because it is anything but neighborly.

I do not believe there is an upsurge in crime. I believe the proliferation of this site and the demographic change in this neighborhood means that more people are instantly connected to one another. And as such we are able to trade information in real time with a lot of people very quickly. I think we now know more crime and hear about more crime than we did before. So while the covers may now be pulled off each element of the unsavory, I do not believe for a minute that is corrolated to an increase in crime so much as an awareness of it.

so I am happy to have a discussion about all of this. And I truly welcome your disagreement. This world would be really boring if we all thought the same way. But please, don't presume things that aren't there and read between the lines. Ask me, or for that matter, ask anyone first if their stance is what you are presuming it might be. its a lot faster to get a clarification.

oh and back on the topic of battered women... I am training for a marathon to raise money for another shelter program, if anyone is interested in contributing or running 16 miles this weekend, PM me for the details.

I have an idea on how to restore peace to the boards that I would like to share in a totally off topic way. I think reorganizing the sections so that they are neighborhoods with subsections would work really well. That way you don't go to the Ph Heights boards and see "mugging, mugging, mugging, gun shots, mugging, I hate Soda, mugging." So sections could be like restaurants/cafes, brooklyn museum, general bantering, events (whatever, the actual sections could be hashed out) and then everyone's favorite section - crime watch or whatever you wanna call it.

I think the "good old days" are somewhat of a myth. I mean, yeah, it used to be only one or two people tops came in and made fun of your moms, and now it seems to be more like 25 people make fun of your moms. But I think a reorg would help. Most importantly, it would help me go straight to the restaurant stuff and whatever else I wanted to read about, and skip over the muggings and gunshots.

Hey, so maybe I'm not funny but at least I have good ideas!

apollonia666 wrote: cases of oversized Internet testicles,

I don't have anything to add other than that I agree with you, and I find your word choice amusing.

I know the internet is the internet, etc. But I don't think that it's just a case of people being jerks. Just as a personal anecdote, I don't log in that regularly because it seems to the soooo much negative posting about crime and stuff. That is all important, but it leads to a feeling of paranoia and fear and also seems to make people a little extra hostile. Obviously I don't have any empirical evidence, it just seems that way.

I think that changing the flow of information can change the way people use the boards, I don't think it's all about moderating the jerks. Alls I'm saying is that the kind of community and conversations that people would rather be having can be encouraged by making them actual sections instead of just hoping that someone will post a thread about it. And, like I said, it would also sort of quarantine the kind of dialog that we know tends to get more heated. Does everyone think that there is absolutely no way to fix things and make this board useful again? If not, then I will tell myself to STFU like the DAB I am.