tavern on dean should be closed
i'm very disapointed at tavern on dean.
it's a friday night and i went there with friends, and we ordered a few beers, and enjoyed our time, singing a silly song, and the bartender seemed slightly aggro at this fun loving action. he threatened us and pushed my female friend, then said it was a "grown up" bar, even though i'm over 30.
it's a bar, on a friday night, people have fun. when you go to an irish bar and sing songs, it's normal protocol. when you go to tavern on dean, and sing a silly song, the bartender gets annoyed and says it's his bar and threatens to kick you out.
it was really ironic because to me, tavern on dean has always represented an older more free side of new york/brooklyn and it was so disappointing to see what a dreadful thing it is that the victimization the bartender feels became agressively acted out on his own patrons, although we're not his enemy and have lived in new york all our lives.
this instance is an example of the dreadful repercussions of an aggressive zoning and gentrification process which situates the bar owner in direct opposition to the very people who are actually are/were on his side.
i'm glad to see it close
the day that singing in a brooklyn bar on a friday night becomes offensive is a sad sad day for the borough.
no thank you, gehry is enough heartache.
it's a friday night and i went there with friends, and we ordered a few beers, and enjoyed our time, singing a silly song, and the bartender seemed slightly aggro at this fun loving action. he threatened us and pushed my female friend, then said it was a "grown up" bar, even though i'm over 30.
it's a bar, on a friday night, people have fun. when you go to an irish bar and sing songs, it's normal protocol. when you go to tavern on dean, and sing a silly song, the bartender gets annoyed and says it's his bar and threatens to kick you out.
it was really ironic because to me, tavern on dean has always represented an older more free side of new york/brooklyn and it was so disappointing to see what a dreadful thing it is that the victimization the bartender feels became agressively acted out on his own patrons, although we're not his enemy and have lived in new york all our lives.
this instance is an example of the dreadful repercussions of an aggressive zoning and gentrification process which situates the bar owner in direct opposition to the very people who are actually are/were on his side.
i'm glad to see it close
the day that singing in a brooklyn bar on a friday night becomes offensive is a sad sad day for the borough.
no thank you, gehry is enough heartache.
Comments
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Was it like 2am singing in a bar, or 9 pm singing when they have a room full of people eating in the restaurant?
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Subject: Re: tavern on dean should be closed
Okay, I'm going to try not to jump all over you, but I think you are missing the point. Just because a place serves alcohol and has a bar doesn't mean it what you think of as a bar. Every place has its own culture and just because you are used to doing something in a bar doesn't mean its acceptable in every bar.it's a bar, on a friday night, people have fun. when you go to an irish bar and sing songs, it's normal protocol. when you go to tavern on dean, and sing a silly song, the bartender gets annoyed and says it's his bar and threatens to kick you out.
You walked into a bar on the corner of Dean and Underhill. Its a bar that is still primarily frequented by older black neighborhood patrons and yet somehow you thought that what passed for normal protocol in an Irish bar was okay? Why? Have you ever seen anyone in there singing Irish pub songs? Do the older ladies in their furs accompanied by the guys that look like they just stepped out of the 80's have a tendency to bust out in song - any song- ever?it was really ironic because to me, tavern on dean has always represented an older more free side of new york/brooklyn and it was so disappointing to see what a dreadful thing it is that the victimization the bartender feels became agressively acted out on his own patrons, although we're not his enemy and have lived in new york all our lives.
Did you ever stop to think that the bartender was pissed off because you were behaving in a way that was at odds with the behavior of everyone else in the joint? Tavern does represent an older part of Brooklyn. Its the part where you understood that just because your thing was your thing it wasn't everyone else's thing and if you were a visitor somewhere you conformed to the standard rather than expecting folks to change for you.
I've hung out in a lot of bars in my time and there are just some basic things I've learned:
1) You don't mosh at the hip-hop clubs
2) You don't expect folks to not step on your brand-new kicks at the college-frat punk bar
3) You damn well better learn to dance in a straight line exactly in time with everyone else in the country and western bar
4) You don't complain about how screwed up everyone else in the bar is when you commit a social faux pas -
In typical Brooklynian-speak homeowner, nice blaming the victim there.
To the OP, what were the threats made exactly? And I don't know exactly what was going on there, but it certainly doesn't sound like anything that would warrant pushing around a woman. -
daver wrote: In typical Brooklynian-speak homeowner, nice blaming the victim there.
Maybe the world would be a lot better if we stopped thinking of ourselves as victims and started examining why stuff happens.
MOD NOTE: a couple of posts migrated out as a new thread -- I'm putting them in here as a sort of manual merge, since that feature isn't working right now and this is where they belong in the time sequence.RBG wrote: I was in Tavern on the Dean a few weeks ago and was asked to tone down my voice---by another person sitting at the bar. Tavern on the D is a bar/restaurant frequented by older people, city workers, church goers, etc...They expect patrons to act like grown-up and don't like alot of yellling, singing, or wild behavior. My girl and snickered when the guy asked us to keep it down, but we realized that we had to respect the culture of the bar in order to drink there....I actually had a great time that night.
King without a crown wrote: Give me a break! Tavern on Dean is a far cry from a quiet, grown up, Church going bar. I have personally broken many fights over there, and had many encounters with the mature sophisticated patrons.
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Subject: Re: tavern on dean should be closed
supersilent wrote: i'm very disapointed at tavern on dean.
I think you are mistaken. It is more of a restaurant than a bar. Everytimw I've been there, somewhat on the quiet side.
it's a friday night and i went there with friends, and we ordered a few beers, and enjoyed our time, singing a silly song, and the bartender seemed slightly aggro at this fun loving action. he threatened us and pushed my female friend, then said it was a "grown up" bar, even though i'm over 30. -
Subject: Re: tavern on dean should be closed
[quote="supersilent"]i'm very disapointed at tavern on dean.
it's a friday night and i went there with friends, and we ordered a few beers, and enjoyed our time, singing a silly song, and the bartender seemed slightly aggro at this fun loving action. he threatened us and pushed my female friend, then said it was a "grown up" bar, even though i'm over 30.
it's a bar, on a friday night, people have fun. when you go to an irish bar and sing songs, it's normal protocol. when you go to tavern on dean, and sing a silly song, the bartender gets annoyed and says it's his bar and threatens to kick you out.
**************************
Next time try not to sing Dixie. -
just because your thing was your thing
homeowner, where's that clapping emoticon? I love you.
it wasn't everyone else's thing
p.s. daver, I don't homeowner is making a case for assault -
pitu wrote: homeowner, where's that clapping emoticon?
You mean this one?
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Subject: Re: tavern on dean should be closed
supersilent wrote: when you go to an irish bar and sing songs, it's normal protocol.
and of all the screennames. the irony. -
something similair happened to my husband at Tavern on Dean. We had been going there for years and loved it, but knew that the regulars at the bar can be less than friendly esp. if they disagree with the sports you want to watch. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of very cool friendly people there but some regulars are very terratorial. Also, it gets very rowdy there so the person who said it's usually quiet is wrong. Anyway we were having dinner in the front part watching the yankees game for a while. The game was well under way when they switched the yankees game to the mets game which was already on the other tv. My husband went to complain and the bartender turned the tv to Lifetime, much to the amusement of the regulars at the bar. This angered my husband who got into words with the bartender who pushed him. We left and haven't been back, which makes me sad. It was just ridiculous that we were treated that way when we were watching the game for hours and spending money there like everyone else and had been customers for years imo.
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Subject: Tavern
Best thing to do if you feel like you been mistreated, you should talk to the owner. His Name is Mick and he is a very nice guy who will listen you and probably do something about it if his Bartender was in the wrong. -
i've only been to this place once
can't say i was impressed
they had a huge pack of flies in the front part of the restaurant during last fall and it was miserable trying to enjoy brunch
they also couldnt get a simple order correct
wont be going back -
I haven't been to this place in quite a while. I never experienced being pushed or mistreated and always found the staff to be professional and friendly. But in the end, it's a mediocre place, with a shitty beer selection and unimpressive food. One time I ordered a side of spinach and it came with all of the stems intact. Another I ordered the cheese pasta sauce and it was runny and tasteless. Hence, whenever I have a craving for pub food, I go to Downtown Atlantic or Waterfront Ale House. They're much better run and have a better beer and food selection.
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We love Tavern on Dean and have never been treated poorly. We are there at least twice a month. Tavern on Dean will not be the best meal you have ever had but the food is more than adequate and always very filling.
A few months ago we ran out of cash and the bartender gave us a few rounds on the house.... -
Subject: owner response tavern on dean
DEAR FRIENDS:
I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE ALL COMMENTS REGARDING YOUR EXPERIENCE AT MY RESTAURANT. I OFTEN READ THE POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE REVIEWS OF EACH BLOGGER. OVERALL, I'VE BEEN REWARDED WITH ACCOLADES ON MY WELCOMING SERVICE AND CONSISTENT FOOD QUALITY. HOWEVER, I'M MANIACAL IN MY APPROACH TO ENSURE IT ONLY IMPROVES WITH EVERY VISIT.
I WELCOME THE BLOGGER "SUPERSILENT" TO PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME THIS INFLAMMATORY ACCUSATION OF ONE OF MY EMPLOYEES "PUSHING" A FEMALE CLIENT IN REGARD TO A SING A LONG ON FRIDAY NIGHT 2/22. I FAIL TO UNDERSTAND SUCH AN EVENT EVER TOOK PLACE. IT DEFIES ALL LOGIC AND I FEEL IT WARRANTS A RESPONSE IN DEFENSE OF MY BUSINESS.
I OPENED IN SEPT 2000 WHEN THERE WAS EMPTY LOTS IN THIS AREA KNOWING THAT A GOOD LOCAL WOULD BE EMBRACED BY A COMMUNITY THAT WAS WELL IN NEED OF A PLACE THEY COULD CALL THEIR OWN. MY COMMITTMENT TO THAT NEED HAS NEVER WAIVERED BY COMPLACENTCY OR EGO, KNOWING FULL WELL THE FAILURE RATE OF NY RESTAURANTS IF YOU DON'T STRIVE FOR THE BEST. YOU CANNOT FOOL NEW YORKERS, WHO ARE LOYAL IF YOU'RE HONEST, GENEROUS AND GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ABOUT THEIR NEEDS, PARDON MY FRENCH.
SO, HAVING SAID THAT, I WANT TO THANK EACH AND EVERYONE THAT HAS BEEN TO MY RESTAURANT TO KNOW THAT I'M ALWAYS AVAILABLE FOR YOUR INPUT.
AS FOR ME CLOSING, SORRY, IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN FOR YOU "SUPERSILENT" OR YOUR GENTRIFICATION CONUNDRUM BS
MICK PEARCE
OWNER
TAVERN ON DEAN -
Supersilent
Did you ever hear of a Karaoke bar?? -
I gotta say when I am going to eat dinner at a restaurant, I am the type of person who wants to be able to have a chat with my fellow diners. A lot of restaurants in this city get extremely loud from drunk patrons who try to treat the space a little too personal and informal. I'd hedge my bets there wasn't anyone outside your table who found your singing enjoyable or the least bit funny.
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So Mick, to be clear, you are calling supersilent a liar about a woman in (his?) party getting pushed by one of your employees. That troubles me greatly. I cannot quite figure out why supersilent would post just to type out lies about your restaurant, but I have little doubt you feel the need to protect your business no matter what the facts may be. I hate sing-a-longs, but the way you responded to this customer struck as me us totally uncaring.
I've spoken to a former employee of your restaurant in the past and clearly understand the need for your staff to be aggressive with customers from time to time -- things occassionally get rather hairy.
But instead of using a bit of nuance to explain what drives your employees, you just road roughshod over the whole situation with some tired old saw about how you came here when the neighborhood was "empty lots". Whatever.
You just lost 4 more customers. -
If the Bartender needed to ask the OP to lower the volume or stop singing, the bartender could have done so in a polite manner.
If the owner's written rage fit in ALL AGGRESSIVE CAPS reflects his staff's attitude, the OP must be telling the truth. -
I also have heard several complaints regarding the staff and the Bartender in particular. Whether or not the singing chick was annoying, isn't the issue, it's how she was treated. Your attitude towards a valid complaint, is exactly what many on here have complained about. So instead of responding to a situation, with an attack on the poster, why not make an attempt to resolve the issue, rather than discredit it? Theres many Bars in Prospect Heights, and if you the Bar owner, are going to condone such behavior, I don't see why anyone would patronize your business.
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King without a crown wrote: I also have heard several complaints regarding the staff and the Bartender in particular. Whether or not the singing chick was annoying, isn't the issue, it's how she was treated. Your attitude towards a valid complaint, is exactly what many on here have complained about. So instead of responding to a situation, with an attack on the poster, why not make an attempt to resolve the issue, rather than discredit it? Theres many Bars in Prospect Heights, and if you the Bar owner, are going to condone such behavior, I don't see why anyone would patronize your business.
True. On the other hand, the OP hasn't returned to answer any of the questions about what actually happened. And with a grand total of 4 posts, including this one (and yes, it does matter- supersilent could be the owner of a rival bar, or anyone, since we don't really know anything about him/her), i think it's reasonable to at least entertain the possibility that not everything went down as presented. If the original post is completely true, it definitely is disturbing, although contrary to my experience there (admittedly, I never tried to break into song- it's just not that kind of place). However, there's not enough information posted to really judge the incident (did it happen in the middle of prime dining hours? was the song somehow offensive? did the OP and friends continue making a racket after being told to cool it by the bartender? were they asked to leave and blew off the request?), and since the OP hasn't returned to answer any questions, I'm inclined to view the complaint with some skepticism.
At least the owner of Tavern on Dean posted as himself and addressed the complaint head-on (even if some found the response unsatisfactory) rather than relying on behind-the-scenes threats of litigation, as Stone Park did when someone posted here about a bad experience at their establishment. -
Believe it or not, some people don't monitor this board 24 hours a day. I also don't find that complaint to be that preposterous, nor do I think not responding to a thread within the same day is unusual either.
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King without a crown wrote: Believe it or not, some people don't monitor this board 24 hours a day. I also don't find that complaint to be that preposterous, nor do I think not responding to a thread within the same day is unusual either.
They don't have to monitor the board 24 hours a day. But when you make an accusation like the OP did, it's reasonable to expect you to check in again. We'll see if the OP returns. -
raw wrote: If the owner's written rage fit in ALL AGGRESSIVE CAPS (snip)
He's obviously new to this, so that's not fair. If you take the caps lock off, it reads quite differently. I really appreciate the owner coming and addressing a flame on his business - that's honest and direct.
Not to mention, Tavern on Dean already has a good rep with many of the usual suspects around here and I've never heard about aggro bartenders before, so when someone comes and vents a story that looks like a few shades of detail are missing, I'd like to give the establishment the benefit of the doubt. Of course nobody should be laying hands on anybody else, but what's the real story here? -
Subject: Re: owner response tavern on dean
Since some have chosen the open letter format ---
The post below from the Tavern on Dean ownership shows poor judgment and a depressing management style, in my opinion. "The customer is always right". Of course that saying is not to be taken literally in every instance, rather it's a philosophy that should be adhered to to give the customer the benefit of the doubt; it's a principle with the aim to please every single customer, which should be every owner/manager's ultimate goal, including Mick's. To react by openly challenging a customer complaint by saying it "defies all logic" contradicts your opening statement that you "appreciate all comments" and your later comment "I'm always available for your input." The arrogance this letter displays is unacceptable from ANY position, whether it's the bartender, the bus-boy, or the manager. If Mick was truly concerned with Tavern's performance and reputation, he would have contacted supersilent directly, via PrivateMessage, with an open-mind. Instead he's gone "public", shown a defensive, angry attitude towards supersilent and, by extension, to all prospective Tavern on Dean patrons. Shame on you, Mick. Maybe it's no wonder that so many establishments in our city have sub-par customer service. Quality service starts from the top, through leadership and accountability, and it seems quite clear that you're actually more concerned with challenging and ridiculing negative comments and poor experiences than you are with correcting or preventing them, despite your empty words to the contrary.angus wrote: DEAR FRIENDS:
I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE ALL COMMENTS REGARDING YOUR EXPERIENCE AT MY RESTAURANT. I OFTEN READ THE POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE REVIEWS OF EACH BLOGGER. OVERALL, I'VE BEEN REWARDED WITH ACCOLADES ON MY WELCOMING SERVICE AND CONSISTENT FOOD QUALITY. HOWEVER, I'M MANIACAL IN MY APPROACH TO ENSURE IT ONLY IMPROVES WITH EVERY VISIT.
I WELCOME THE BLOGGER "SUPERSILENT" TO PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME THIS INFLAMMATORY ACCUSATION OF ONE OF MY EMPLOYEES "PUSHING" A FEMALE CLIENT IN REGARD TO A SING A LONG ON FRIDAY NIGHT 2/22. I FAIL TO UNDERSTAND SUCH AN EVENT EVER TOOK PLACE. IT DEFIES ALL LOGIC AND I FEEL IT WARRANTS A RESPONSE IN DEFENSE OF MY BUSINESS.
I OPENED IN SEPT 2000 WHEN THERE WAS EMPTY LOTS IN THIS AREA KNOWING THAT A GOOD LOCAL WOULD BE EMBRACED BY A COMMUNITY THAT WAS WELL IN NEED OF A PLACE THEY COULD CALL THEIR OWN. MY COMMITTMENT TO THAT NEED HAS NEVER WAIVERED BY COMPLACENTCY OR EGO, KNOWING FULL WELL THE FAILURE RATE OF NY RESTAURANTS IF YOU DON'T STRIVE FOR THE BEST. YOU CANNOT FOOL NEW YORKERS, WHO ARE LOYAL IF YOU'RE HONEST, GENEROUS AND GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ABOUT THEIR NEEDS, PARDON MY FRENCH.
SO, HAVING SAID THAT, I WANT TO THANK EACH AND EVERYONE THAT HAS BEEN TO MY RESTAURANT TO KNOW THAT I'M ALWAYS AVAILABLE FOR YOUR INPUT.
AS FOR ME CLOSING, SORRY, IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN FOR YOU "SUPERSILENT" OR YOUR GENTRIFICATION CONUNDRUM BS
MICK PEARCE
OWNER
TAVERN ON DEAN -
Subject: Re: owner response tavern on dean
izisharp wrote: Since some have chosen the open letter format ---
although i agree that the customer is first, it is also the customer's prerogative to first approached management directly with complaints of staff, service, product, entertainment... ad astra
If Mick was truly concerned with Tavern's performance and reputation, he would have contacted supersilent directly, via PrivateMessage, with an open-mind.
instead of using that prerogative the OP chose to post to this message board first with a proclaimation that tavern should be closed. this approach is provocative and it cheapens any weighty grievance
it takes a lot to get ousted from most brooklyn bars and restaurants
which should make one question the level of annoyance brought on by the OP
one question: OP, what were you singing? -
A lot of people who have used this board for a while still don't seem to know about PMs, so I would chalk both that and the allcaps up to inexperience. Besides, as someone pointed out, the OP is the one who made the experience public to begin with.
I have to say that I'm with Carnivore on this one. I've had many pleasant experiences at ToD myself, and for the time being I'm going to put personal experience ahead of an essentially anonymous report. Also, when my husband and I were away last summer, my dad housesat for us and apparently spent most evenings at ToD's bar and had a great time, despite being an out of towner. So I don't buy that it's clubby or cliquish there.
And I still don't see what the OP meant about aggressive zoning and gentrification in the first post... -
I don't go to Tavern on Dean because it is boring and not my style. Try Soda or Barrette.
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I work with one of the bartenders from tavern on dean at another job.
whos the guy people are speaking of? -
I have to just say that if a bartender did so much as poke me with his pinky finger- I'd be calling the cops. I can't belive that any woman (or man) would actually let themselves be pushed and not go completely ape-shit. I'd be on my cell so fast-----> calling KWAK.
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