The low life losers are out tonight
Comments
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Hey liftand cut, try to hide your racism a little more, it's realy showing. I agree with what these other posters are saying and guess what? I have lived here for 20 years - longer than these little thugs have been alive - so does that make it my neighborhood more than theirs? None of these kids have come up and tried to get to know me, even though I have lived here longer than them... am I now justified in harrassing them because I haven't received my due respect? Puh-lease.
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liftandcut wrote:
Way to mind-read and stereotype...actually, liftandcut, if i live in a specific neighborhood, it's my neighborhood
How do you even know where I'm from or these other posters are from? You don't.
Wow, you're all so mad. Okay. So, I don't care where you're from, for one, and if you consider an area you moved to a few years ago "your" neighborhood, so be it. I've lived here for six years, and I don't think it's "my" neighborhood. Sure, I can walk around and say hi to all of the business owners and others I see every day, but I wasn't raised here. Six years is not roots, folks. I am glad that I have developed a tight friendship with one person who grew up on this block. You might be surprised to know what people who grew up here feel about their neighborhood changing so rapidly. I am very fond of this area, but do I walk around thinking this is my neighborhood? No. That's the problem with a lot of you people. You come here and consider it yours, but not everybody's. That was my point. I wasn't legitimizing violence. You all moved here because it is relatively cheap, and felt safe when you found out that other people that look like you have been moving here. But you didn't come here ready to adapt and change the way you think and behave. Soon you will all get your wish and have cops on every corner, Whole Foods, Barnes & Noble, Starbucks, and any other conveniences you wake up from dreams of. By then, the only kids you will have to deal with will be Gerber babies in strollers being pushed by Haitian ladies. Then it will really feel like home. Just try to sit tight for now. -
Oh, come on now, you know it's true. But thanks for the compliment!
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liftandcut wrote: You are still missing the point, and it one that has been discussed many times on DH. Many people move here and project the attitude that they have no interest in being part of the neighborhood. Instead, it is an obvious reluctance to create any kind of relationship with people who already live here, and air of entitlement. It's not everybody, but many of you do this and may not even know you do. People here have always been friendly to each other, and after getting to know newcomers, often embracing. But that goes two ways, and a lot of people who move here don't reach out in that way. It's disappointing because the "neighborhood" feel is starting to fade.
we agree and disagree on many points (as you know -- heck, I still owe you a high beam at ripple after some disagreement months ago that I've forgotten, tho I can't seem to forget the debt) but seriously? I think the going both ways really does mean that. people move here instead of washington heights or inwood or the south bronx (almost all places I've lived) because it is affordable AND it has a neighborhood feel. you can see the sky. there are trees. there are neighborhood establishments. getting an 'in' on the neighborhood is way way way easier when you're not competing with 20 blocks of 18 story buildings and their residents. of course there's resentment. of course people here are upset that their taxes are going up, that their rent is going up, that the dept of sanitation is paying more attention to their recycling. that's annoying. worse. it's scary. it threatens the status quo. which is already shifted - it shifted way before 6 years ago, really. a lot of the recent co-op buildings that opened up in this neighborhood started a good 10-15 years ago (as in went from being rent stabilized to co-ops). so this shift isn't so recent, and, frankly, was predicted by a lot of long-timers. my neighbor, a retired bed stuy elementary school principal, knew the shift was coming 20 years ago. and ... she recognizes me as a neighborhood resident. it makes sense - I'm single, own next door to her apt (which she owns), and have zero intention of moving. so ... why not? she probably doesn't see me as a "brooklynite" or "new yorker", which is fine. I'll never be able to claim any sort of "ownership" on that level to a city/town/borough. but a neighbor? a member of the neighborhood? it'd be silly of her to think otherwise. cause I'm not budging. and neither is she. -
I'll never be able to claim any sort of "ownership" on that level to a city/town/borough. but a neighbor? a member of the neighborhood? it'd be silly of her to think otherwise. cause I'm not budging. and neither is she
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Well said, alafairnadia. I believe that, for the most part, quite a few nabes in NYC have residents that share liftandcut's views:It's disappointing because the "neighborhood" feel is starting to fade.
It may look like it's fading, but its not. It's just something else, it's transforming. Like it or not, that's the case here in PH. -
Are people forgetting that a crime is a crime? It doesn't matter if it is long-time resident vs. gentrifyer or gentrifyer vs. gentrifyer or long-time resident vs. long-time resident.
Laws are laws and crimes are crimes. There are not exceptions for length of time lived in the area where the crime is committed.
If long-time residents are upset at gentrifiers (how do you spell this word??), fine. However, they're going to have to find another way to show it. -
Hey liftand cut, try to hide your racism a little more, it's realy showing. I agree with what these other posters are saying and guess what? I have lived here for 20 years - longer than these little thugs have been alive - so does that make it my neighborhood more than theirs? None of these kids have come up and tried to get to know me, even though I have lived here longer than them... am I now justified in harrassing them because I haven't received my due respect? Puh-lease.
First of all, as a person of color, it is virtually impossible for me to be a racist. Look the term up. Again, for the umpteenth time, I have never suggested that the violence was justified. I have also never suggested that anyone befriend kids who are causing trouble. My comment was in response to something one of the posters wrote relating to ownership of the neighborhood. The kids who threatened the couple might have messed with a Black couple too. The truth is, and I've been told this by white friends, a lot of white people who have come here walk around these streets scared of the locals. Kids will threaten people anywhere in the city, whether it be Kips Bay, or Prospect Heights. A lot of the people who have moved moved here have never had to deal with getting jumped or mugged where they are from. It's something that many native New Yorkers have experienced regardless of the neighborhoods they are from. But some of the language used on DH when incidents are discussed is unsettling to me, and I have to comment. Another thing- as far as my "racism" goes, are you suggesting that my statements about why white people are moving here are incorrect? -
liftandcut wrote: First of all, as a person of color, it is virtually impossible for me to be a racist. Look the term up.
You can't be serious. -
BrookFetish wrote: [quote=liftandcut]First of all, as a person of color, it is virtually impossible for me to be a racist. Look the term up.
You can't be serious.
Noun1.racist - a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others
A PERSON...regardless of color. -
yea, pretty silly to say you can't be racist if you are a minority
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mr. met wrote: yea, pretty silly to say you can't be racist if you are a minority
But then what leg does lift & cut have to stand on to justify his broad generalizations, rationalizations for crimes against white people and general air of hatred for any newcomers into the nabe? -
Subject: likely a new thread
the whole idea that persons of color can't be racist has always amazed me.
The term means different things to different people, but trying to make everyone believe that only those in power (in the US this is historically ...and currently... people of european decent, aka "white people") can be racist seems like a under resourced effort to change the definition.
here's a bunch of defintions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racist
I wonder if the arguement will be made that all of these sources are a part of the oppressive white establishment, and therefore can be dismissed. Yes, someone can define racism in a way that makes themselves incapable of it, but it certainly doesn't make the rest of us believe it ...and certainly doesn't change the way in which most define the term ...good luck on changing the most popular definitions. Wikipedia allows readers to edit... -
Subject: Re: likely a new thread
whynot_31 wrote: the whole idea that persons of color can't be racist has always amazed me.
Even accepting the definition to include the power aspect doesn't mean black people can't be racist. Some of the most disgusting displays of gratuitous racism I've seen on the subways have been by black people towards Asians. There's evil in all groups.
The term means different things to different people, but trying to make everyone believe that only those in power (in the US this is historically ...and currently... people of european decent, aka "white people") can be racist seems like a under resourced effort to change the definition.
here's a bunch of defintions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racist
I wonder if the arguement will be made that all of these sources are a part of the oppressive white establishment. ...good luck on changing the most popular definitions. -
every race is equally racist
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King without a crown wrote: [quote=Carnivore][quote=King without a crown]The problem is that these kids don't get punched in the face when they do this.
Surely you're not suggesting that people take the law into their own hands... :twisted:
Defending yourself from an attack, does not constitute taking the law into your own hands. Maybe if more people defended themslves there might be less incidence of random violence. Just a thought
Well most of the posters on this board are liberal wimps, more concerned with being percieved as racially insensitive, so I don't see that happening anytime soon. -
neene wrote:
I'd recommend the thread on pepper spray and one of these:
i think that's probably true but 2 things that make it tough are
1. these "kids" often travel in packs, giving not only the physical advantage of numbers but the psychological advantage of being egged on by a group
2. when one is in their teens there is a sense of invincibility that comes from living in the moment with little concern for consequence, as one gets older, this tends to diminish and the rational mind takes over the adrenalin flow sooner
http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/police/batons/expandable.php
And possibly a self-defense class or several. Once you put the leader down, the followers tend to lose their bravado somewhat. Pick another one at random and put him down too if they arn't fully cowed.
Your homework tonight is to pick a fight with a stranger and lose. -
I'd recommend the thread on pepper spray and one of these:
Just like the tasers, those expandable police batons are illegal in NY. They keep all the good stuff away from us!
http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/police/batons/expandable.php -
arches wrote:
Mugging people is illegal too. Don't worry about it, just get one.I'd recommend the thread on pepper spray and one of these:
Just like the tasers, those expandable police batons are illegal in NY. They keep all the good stuff away from us!
http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/police/batons/expandable.php -
Evilbert wrote: Well most of the posters on this board are liberal wimps, more concerned with being percieved as racially insensitive, so I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Yes, because you know everyone here so well. -
caseopele wrote: [quote=Evilbert]Well most of the posters on this board are liberal wimps, more concerned with being percieved as racially insensitive, so I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Yes, because you know everyone here so well.
Just calling it how I see it. If you think the comment was levelled at you, then maybe it's something you should think about. -
I've actually had great idea to make money and point out the idiocy of illegalizing legitimate items of self-defense.
Go walking around a bad area at night. Get mugged. Sue the city for not allowing you to carry self-defense weapons. I hate the lawsuit culture in the US, but this would probably work and is something that needs to be done. -
Evilbert wrote: [quote=caseopele][quote=Evilbert]Well most of the posters on this board are liberal wimps, more concerned with being percieved as racially insensitive, so I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Yes, because you know everyone here so well.
Just calling it how I see it. If you think the comment was levelled at you, then maybe it's something you should think about.
Actually, it's perfectly reasonable to have an issue with that comment even if I don't think it was aimed at me. It was a rather broad statement. Have you read every single post in every forum on this board? Or are you basing your opinion on a specific forum? I'm really just curious about this.
Oh, and I know I'm not a liberal wimp so I wasn't taking personal offense at the comment. -
As a liberal wimp, I am deeply disturbed and offended… Also, with that folding baton thing, am I really going to be able to get the thing assembled after some kid sneaks up behind me and clobbers me?
I like alafairnadia's idea of carrying around a wine bottle as a self-defense weapon… at least you get the wine once you get home. Also, since someone has to sneak up on you to bash you from behind, isn't it easier to just stay alert? I got mugged a couple years back, and the kids were incredibly obvious, walking bizarrely slowly so I would pass them. If I was alert I wouldn't have fallen for it.
I also appreciate what liftandcut was saying about respecting the neighborhood, though I don't think it relates to crime. I don't respect criminals. But once we're done worrying about being smacked around, let's remember to show respect to the other 99% of our neighbors — you know, the ones both black and white that aren't criminals. -
liftandcut wrote: I am very fond of this area, but do I walk around thinking this is my neighborhood? No. That's the problem with a lot of you people. You come here and consider it yours, but not everybody's.
Yes, I feel like it's my neighborhood, but I'm trying not to get stuck on that. Maybe it's better to say I feel like it's my community: We're all sharing space on the sidewalk. The way I acted growing up in the suburbs doesn't cut it. In the suburbs, we didn't acknowledge people we walked past at a gas station or in the parking lot of the video store. It was as if strangers didn't exist.
I still remember the education I got when I moved into Fort Greene a few years back. A guy standing in front of his brownstone fussing with the planter said "Good morning" to me, real calm and deliberate, just demanding that I give some acknowledgment that he was there. Probably annoyed at all the folks walking right past him on a quiet residential street like he was street furniture, like a mailbox or a fire hydrant.
Of course this has nothing to do with crime. Violence is an acid that burns the civility out of a neighborhood. But even in tough times and places, I try to show respect to the people I share the sidewalk with. -
liftandcut wrote: First of all, as a person of color, it is virtually impossible for me to be a racist. Look the term up.
Although I agree with most of what you say, you are wrong here and this is probably what causes many problems.
IMO, I 'd say people of color are as racist, if not more, than people not of color. Prejudice is a two-way street.
White people rarely mug, rape, murder black people.
Unless of course they're cops. -
caseopele wrote:
I've lurked for a while and read a lot of threads on here, including the mugging threads. It's a fair assessment. Not saying everyone's a wuss, but most people on here are not the ones I'd want watching my back in a fight.
Actually, it's perfectly reasonable to have an issue with that comment even if I don't think it was aimed at me. It was a rather broad statement. Have you read every single post in every forum on this board? Or are you basing your opinion on a specific forum? I'm really just curious about this.caseopele wrote: Oh, and I know I'm not a liberal wimp so I wasn't taking personal offense at the comment.
But you reacted to it very defensively. Interesting. -
prospectus wrote: As a liberal wimp, I am deeply disturbed and offended…
It's good that you're offended. Now go and think about what I said.prospectus wrote: Also, with that folding baton thing, am I really going to be able to get the thing assembled after some kid sneaks up behind me and clobbers me?
You don't "assemble" it. You press a button and it springs out. You don't wait for the kid to sneak up behind you either (although how someone can sneak up on you in a Brooklyn street is beyond me).prospectus wrote: I like alafairnadia's idea of carrying around a wine bottle as a self-defense weapon… at least you get the wine once you get home.
But it's not very practical. There's better things to hit people with.prospectus wrote: Also, since someone has to sneak up on you to bash you from behind, isn't it easier to just stay alert?
That's the whole idea, genius
prospectus wrote: I got mugged a couple years back, and the kids were incredibly obvious, walking bizarrely slowly so I would pass them. If I was alert I wouldn't have fallen for it.
Being "alert" has nothing to do with it. It's whether or not you're expecting danger. If you learn to recognize when it's coming, it's much easier to deal with the situation. -
Well just like many other threads, this one has been derailed. To bring us back to the original topic, these violent acts committed by these low life thugs have nothing to do with respecting the neighborhood. Their acts are about creating fear and intimidation ,they serve no noble purpose. I have never seen any newbies/gentrifiers disrespect the neighborhood. These shitheads who do these type of things, are the same ones commiting Robberies over there. I suspect that the reason this thread has become distorted, is because certain people don't want to accept random violence as the norm. We feel the need to blame someone, rather than the Criminals perpetuating these crimes against society. I highly doubt the person walking their dog did anything to provoke one of these scumbags. I cant imagine brookfetish strolling with his wife doing anything to these assholes to justify their animalistic behavior. I just hope people wake up and realize theres more of this to come. Until everyone is on the same page, and doesnt accept this behavior, these type of incidents will continue to happen.
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Just a gentle suggestion from someone who does issues-based persuasion for a living. This isn't aimed at any one person in this thread -- I've seen the behavior I'm about to mention from several people here, and certainly not in just this thread.
If you want to persuade people that your side of an argument is right, don't insult individuals or make broad, insulting generalizations about groups that the people you're trying to convince belong to. That will always backfire on you. It shuts people down, puts them on the defensive, and guarantees that they're not going to listen to any cogent, reasonable points that you might have been able to convince them of otherwise.
But hey, if you want to make the discussion go nowhere fast, then go right ahead. -
liftandcut wrote: First of all, as a person of color, it is virtually impossible for me to be a racist.
ah geez. you're one of THOSE. you're embarassing me as a fellow black poster here. you're racist, your best friend who's white is racist, everyone is to some degree. you're trying to take some high horse...but the more you post the more ignorant you look. everyone is a little racist, just like everybody poops.
and it's also nice to know that you don't consider yourself a part of the hood that you live in...because that makes a lot of sense. if you ever get spit on, or trash thrown on you, then i can't wait for you to come on here posting it happened to you but that you must follow it up with "well, it's not my hood, so i deserved it!"
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