Rev. Jeremiah Wright: Obama's Mentor for 20 years
Comments
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eggcream wrote: It's not Drudge milking it, it's the racist Obama and his minions trying to divert his bad publicity, they leaked this picture that means squat.
Heh, him and his sexist friend Hillary, and their scion friend Bush.
The concept that all of this Wright stuff means squat is exactly the point, methinks.
Well said. -
jeffrey wrote: [quote=eggcream]It's not Drudge milking it, it's the racist Obama and his minions trying to divert his bad publicity, they leaked this picture that means squat.
Heh, him and his sexist friend Hillary, and their scion friend Bush.
Don't forget doddering old man McCain.
Or angry loose cannon McCain.
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eggcream wrote: It's not Drudge milking it, it's the racist Obama and his minions trying to divert his bad publicity, they leaked this picture that means squat.
I hate that it has come to this. Already.
I hate that Obama would be pushing this nonsense.
The whole thing just makes me sick to my stomach.
Change? What change?
More of the same, same shit, different face.
Tally me up for the apathetic disgruntled had well and enough crowd.
There is nobody left to like. Again. -
Listen to the "chickens come home to roost" comments actually in context. Not so crazy...
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Subject: "Chickens coming home to roost" from Malcolm X
I'm surprised no one in media has picked up on this and I can only guess that many people are not versed in Malcolm ( I'n no expert, but I know this line).
This is a Malcolm X Phrase in response to the Kennedy Assassination:
http://www.malcolm-x.org/speeches/spc_120463.htm
He was almost immediately suspended by the Nation of Islam and forbidden from speaking for a number of months.
God's Judgement of White America (The Chickens Come Home to Roost)
Malcolm X, edited by Imam Benjamin Karim
December 4 , 1963
note - this speech was delivered before Malcolm left the Nation of Islam and accepted true Islam -- so his views in this speech do not reflect his own or those he held near the end of his life.
This speech is sometimes called "The Chickens Come Home To Roost," because of an answer Malcolm X gave in response to a question following the speech. The question concerned the late President John Kennedy. It was Malcolm X's answer, that the Presidents death was a case of "chickens coming home to roost" -- that the violence that Kennedy had failed to stop had come back to him, this resulted in the Elijah Muhammad silencing him. Malcolm X left the Nation of Islam a short time later...... -
did anyone hear ed koch on the nytimes review show on ny1 this weekend? he was hyping his book about fighting anti-semitism and his beef with obama on the pastor issue was that obama hadn't denounced him publically before the whole thing blew up in the campaign. it was an interesting take on the situation.
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Thanks be to Stanley Fish for his wisdom..."This denouncing and renouncing game is simply not serious. It is a media-staged theater, produced not in response to genuine concerns – no one thinks that Obama is unpatriotic or that Clinton is a racist or that McCain is a right-wing bigot – but in response to the needs of a news cycle. First you do the outrage (did you see what X said?), then you put the question to the candidate (do you hereby denounce and renounce?), then you have a debate on the answer (Did he go far enough? Has she shut her husband up?), and then you do endless polls that quickly become the basis of a new round."
http://fish.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/23/denouncing-and-renouncing/index.html?8dpc -
The fact that Obama didn't publicly explain his thoughts on Wright (in fact, he may have lied about it) is a valid one, but it's not make or break to me. He tried to sweep the issue under the rug, and when he realized it wasn't going away, he gave a 40 minute speech that spoke to voters like adults.
There isn't a politician alive who wouldn't have also tried to sweep this under the rug. The important point, IMO, is that few politicians would have responded with the eloquence and intelligence that Obama did. Few politicians would have responded at all, outside of completely throwing Wright under a bus and claiming they were asleep for the past 20 years while they attended his church. -
Boygabriel wrote: The fact that Obama didn't publicly explain his thoughts on Wright (in fact, he may have lied about it) is a valid one, but it's not make or break to me. He tried to sweep the issue under the rug, and when he realized it wasn't going away, he gave a 40 minute speech that spoke to voters like adults.
interestingly enough, koch was so NOT impressed with the speech. it really was a fascinating interview, albeit only barely relevant.
There isn't a politician alive who wouldn't have also tried to sweep this under the rug. The important point, IMO, is that few politicians would have responded with the eloquence and intelligence that Obama did. Few politicians would have responded at all, outside of completely throwing Wright under a bus and claiming they were asleep for the past 20 years while they attended his church. -
It amazes me to see liberals defending a racist, and Obama is a racist, as is his hate filled "pastor". Who the hell can defend US of KKK?, God Damn America, accusing the gov't of spreading aids in Africa, has ties to Farrakhan another racist, doesn't salute the Flag, his wife is proud of her country for the first time in her life and etc etc. Obama disinvited the "pastor" one year ago not to attend his run for the Presidency ceremony so he knew then what he is lying about now.
Oh, and that speech, yeah selling your white Grandmother down the river and comparing Ferraro to Wright, that's intelligent. He cringes at Grandma's remark, typical white person, but not 20 years of Wright's hatred.
Great article:
Obama's Anger
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/03/obamas_anger.html -
eggcream wrote: It amazes me to see liberals defending a racist, and Obama is a racist, as is his hate filled "pastor". Who the hell can defend US of KKK?, God Damn America, accusing the gov't of spreading aids in Africa, has ties to Farrakhan another racist, doesn't salute the Flag, his wife is proud of her country for the first time in her life and etc etc. Obama disinvited the "pastor" one year ago not to attend his run for the Presidency ceremony so he knew then what he is lying about now.
Yea, Rev. Wright has got Issues as does Obama becuase of Wright and his own relationship with him. Wright is trapped in a time capsule and cannot get out of it; he is an old guy with war stories that he can't get out of his head.
Oh, and that speech, yeah selling your white Grandmother down the river and comparing Ferraro to Wright, that's intelligent. He cringes at Grandma's remark, typical white person, but not 20 years of Wright's hatred.
Great article:
Obama's Anger
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/03/obamas_anger.html
Unfortunately, there are so many Rev. Wrights out there and they keep passing on the same nonsense to a new generation ( the new young pastor is giving equally ridiculous sermons too).
I don't think Obama is a racist.
I do think he is a man torn in a country and society that ( although in denial) is equally torn. But I think that the "victim-ology" complex has to stop in order for us to move on. As I said before, the Rev. Wrights of the world must go away so a new generation can go forward. But we must be mature enough to discuss the shortcomings of our great nation in an effort to improve it. ( The Sean Hannitys and Rev. Wrights of the world are not qualified to have this discussion).
I do think Obama would try his best, as anyone would, to fight his own demons and America's demons as well. Hillary and McCain can do no better, I'm afraid. I'm not sure any politician can do any better. It's a lot of pressure to put on one man - even super Obama.
Unfortunately, we keep simplifying very complex arguments in to snippets.
Which is why we never get anywhere.Who benefits from that?
The only way we are ever going to get anywhere is when a new generation with new experiences takes over the world, political and media.
We are in a quagmire. -
eggcream wrote: ...and Obama is a racist...
Just repeating it doesn't make it so. This is classic O'Reilly/Limbaugh crap, and people aren't falling for it any more. And they know that the senile old McCain is ill-equipped to handle the current domestic or international situation.
See what I did there? -
eggcream wrote: It amazes me to see liberals defending a racist, and Obama is a racist, as is his hate filled "pastor". Who the hell can defend US of KKK?, God Damn America, accusing the gov't of spreading aids in Africa, has ties to Farrakhan another racist, doesn't salute the Flag, his wife is proud of her country for the first time in her life and etc etc. Obama disinvited the "pastor" one year ago not to attend his run for the Presidency ceremony so he knew then what he is lying about now.
Okay!
Oh, and that speech, yeah selling your white Grandmother down the river and comparing Ferraro to Wright, that's intelligent. He cringes at Grandma's remark, typical white person, but not 20 years of Wright's hatred.
Great article:
Obama's Anger
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/03/obamas_anger.html -
The blog Obsidian Wings had a good post today with interesting passages summarizing specific aspects of Barak Obama's foreign policy team as well as his plan to improve and fix the intelligence agencies.
Facts like these are (a) why I support Obama and (b) an example of what presidential race coverage should be. I don't need Chris Matthews telling me what white males 18-34 think of Obama. I'll make up my own mind.
Let's talk about the candidate's policies, not "how the candidates are viewed by X demographic". I don't care what X demographic thinks. I want to see analysis of the policies themselves.
http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/03/quick-links-oba.htmlMarch 26, 2008
Quick Links (Obama Edition)
by hilzoy
Some interesting pieces:
(1) Spencer Ackerman has a very good piece on Obama's foreign policy team:"They also share a formative experience with each other and with Obama. Each opposed the Iraq War at a time when doing so was derided by their colleagues, by journalists, and by the foreign-policy establishment. Each did so because they understood that the invasion and occupation ran counter to the goal of destroying al-Qaeda. And each bore the frustration of endless lectures on their lack of so-called seriousness from those who suffered from strategic myopia.
(2) Barron YoungSmith has written a piece about Obama's proposals for intelligence reform. I'm not competent to address those proposals, but they are interesting:
"There is a popular notion that Democrats have to try to appear like Republicans to pass some test on national security. The fact that that's still the case after Iraq is absurd," says one of Obama's closest advisers. "So you break from that orthodoxy and say 'I don't care if the Republicans attack me because I'm willing to meet with the leadership in Iran. We haven't for 25 years, and it's not gotten us anywhere.'" (...)
The Obama foreign-policy team describes it as "the politics of fear," a phrase most advisers used unprompted in our conversations. "For a long time we've not seen much creative thinking from Dems on national security, because, out of fear, we want to be a little different from the Republicans but not too different, out of fear of being labeled weak or indecisive," another top adviser says. Identifying that fear as the accelerant of the Iraq War mind-set is the first step to a new and innovative foreign policy. John Kerry was not able to argue for fundamental change in foreign policy because he was consumed by that very political fear. Obama's admonition to Democrats is much like Pope John Paul II's to the Gdansk shipyard strikers -- first, be not afraid.""One of Obama's most important attempts to roll back the Bush administration's foreign policy is also among the least understood. It is his proposal for intelligence reform. Obama's rebuke to conservative orthodoxy on this issue can be found buried in a Q&A and complementary article published earlier this month in the Washington Post: "Obama repeated his pledge to end the Bush administration's 'politicization of intelligence' and said he would give the director of national intelligence--who currently serves at the pleasure of the president--a fixed term, similar to that of the Federal Reserve chairman."
It's common for Democrats to promise an end to Bush-style politicization of intelligence. But the way that Obama frames the issue--likening the DNI to the independent, technocratic Chairman of the Federal Reserve--indicates that his view of the intelligence process is ontologically opposed to the way conservatives see it. (...) In saying the DNI should be like the Chairman of the Federal Reserve, (rather than, say, the Secretary of Defense, who always serves at the pleasure of the President), the candidate is throwing his weight behind the idea that the intelligence community (IC) should be an independent assessor of empirically-verifiable facts; that intelligence assessment is a non-ideological exercise in finding out what's true and what's not." -
"he only way we are ever going to get anywhere is when a new generation with new experiences takes over the world, political and media.
We are in a quagmire."
Never going to happen when the Obama's of the world bring their children to listen to this hate speech. It's not just the old timers who believe this. Obama is in his 40's and he has been listening to this racist crap for 20 years. Wright has been like a father to Obama and we're now to believe he disagrees w/Wright?
"Just repeating it doesn't make it so. This is classic O'Reilly/Limbaugh crap, and people aren't falling for it any more. And they know that the senile old McCain is ill-equipped to handle the current domestic or international situation. "
We don't have to repeat it, the Rev. does that for us. Good one trying to pin this racist crap on O'Reilly/Limbaugh. If it was the other way around liberals would be screaming their heads off. Can you imagine McCain saying typical black people? Funny how the Racist's speeches have been cancelled. Wonder why he is Obama's former pastor?
I'd rather vote for a senile guy than an anti-American racist or a pathological liar. -
eggcream wrote: "he only way we are ever going to get anywhere is when a new generation with new experiences takes over the world, political and media.
Er, what?
We are in a quagmire."
Never going to happen when the Obama's of the world bring their children to listen to this hate speech. It's not just the old timers who believe this. Obama is in his 40's and he has been listening to this racist crap for 20 years. Wright has been like a father to Obama and we're now to believe he disagrees w/Wright?eggcream wrote: We don't have to repeat it, the Rev. does that for us. Good one trying to pin this racist crap on O'Reilly/Limbaugh. If it was the other way around liberals would be screaming their heads off. Can you imagine McCain saying typical black people?
I had no idea McCain was half black, half white and able to speak of personal family experiences from both sides of the equation.
:roll:eggcream wrote: Funny how the Racist's speeches have been cancelled.
Threat letters begat security concerns, I heard. Should threats of harm be treated lightly?eggcream wrote: Wonder why he is Obama's former pastor?
He retired. Did you miss that?eggcream wrote: I'd rather vote for a senile guy than an anti-American racist or a pathological liar.
Okay! -
eggcream wrote: "he only way we are ever going to get anywhere is when a new generation with new experiences takes over the world, political and media.
You are right.
We are in a quagmire."
Never going to happen when the Obama's of the world bring their children to listen to this hate speech. It's not just the old timers who believe this. Obama is in his 40's and he has been listening to this racist crap for 20 years. Wright has been like a father to Obama and we're now to believe he disagrees w/Wright?
"Just repeating it doesn't make it so. This is classic O'Reilly/Limbaugh crap, and people aren't falling for it any more. And they know that the senile old McCain is ill-equipped to handle the current domestic or international situation. "
We don't have to repeat it, the Rev. does that for us. Good one trying to pin this racist crap on O'Reilly/Limbaugh. If it was the other way around liberals would be screaming their heads off. Can you imagine McCain saying typical black people? Funny how the Racist's speeches have been cancelled. Wonder why he is Obama's former pastor?
I'd rather vote for a senile guy than an anti-American racist or a pathological liar.
If an old white guy was up in a pulpit spewing things like that about black people, we would never hear the end of it. It would be a field day. We saw what happened to Imus and Dog the Bounty Hunter. if the word "typical" ( a poor choice of word, but I don't think he meant any insult) it would cause many problems. But let's be honest: there are SOME traits that do exist amongst races, ethnicities and social cultures. We don't have to pretend that they don't exists ( that would be PC, but it doesn't help the situation)
But if we are going to be intelligent about this, we are going to have to actually follow what Barrack does himself. I have never heard him say any of the things I heard Rev. Wright say in his campaign or in any other settings.
Eggcream, I don't know anything about you, but if you do know black people, you will know that some of these "conspiracy theories" a la Wright - are in the community and have been for decades. They are real for many people and everyone can't simply disown their family and friends.
And lets be Honest:
America does have from F_cked up foreign policies and history - like ALL countries. America is a great country, but we have to get off of our high horse about being criticized.
To say that may not be politically expedient, but that doesn't make it untrue. this is where some of the confusion is coming in also.
You should watch " The Fog of War" and see that former defense secretary McNamara pretty much outlined everything Wright said with respect to Hiroshima and Nagasaki...And He knows becuase he ordered it:
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To be fair, McCain LIED about Romney's plan on Iraq 'timetable' withdrawal and Romney called him out in the debates.
So....where does that leave us?
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Eggcream wants more red:
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eggcream wrote: It's not Drudge milking it, it's the racist Obama and his minions trying to divert his bad publicity, they leaked this picture that means squat.
Okay! -
Really interesting article from The Chicago Tribune:
18 wrote: Factor military duty into criticism[/size]
By Lawrence Korb and Ian Moss
April 3, 2008
In 1961, a young African-American man, after hearing President John F. Kennedy's challenge to, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country," gave up his student deferment, left college in Virginia and voluntarily joined the Marines.
In 1963, this man, having completed his two years of service in the Marines, volunteered again to become a Navy corpsman. (They provide medical assistance to the Marines as well as to Navy personnel.)
The man did so well in corpsman school that he was the valedictorian and became a cardiopulmonary technician. Not surprisingly, he was assigned to the Navy's premier medical facility, Bethesda Naval Hospital, as a member of the commander in chief's medical team, and helped care for President Lyndon B. Johnson after his 1966 surgery. For his service on the team, which he left in 1967, the White House awarded him three letters of commendation.
What is even more remarkable is that this man entered the Marines and Navy not many years after the two branches began to become integrated.
While this young man was serving six years on active duty, Vice President Dick Cheney, who was born the same year as the Marine/sailor, received five deferments, four for being an undergraduate and graduate student and one for being a prospective father. Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, both five years younger than the African-American youth, used their student deferments to stay in college until 1968. Both then avoided going on active duty through family connections.
Who is the real patriot? The young man who interrupted his studies to serve his country for six years or our three political leaders who beat the system? Are the patriots the people who actually sacrifice something or those who merely talk about their love of the country?
After leaving the service of his country, the young African-American finished his final year of college, entered the seminary, was ordained as a minister, and eventually became pastor of a large church in one of America's biggest cities.
This man is Rev. Jeremiah Wright, the retiring pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ, who has been in the news for comments he made over the last three decades.
Since these comments became public we have heard criticisms, condemnations, denouncements and rejections of his comments and him.
We've seen on television, in a seemingly endless loop, sound bites of a select few of Rev. Wright's many sermons.
Some of the Wright's comments are inexcusable and inappropriate and should be condemned, but in calling him "unpatriotic," let us not forget that this is a man who gave up six of the most productive years of his life to serve his country.
How many of Wright's detractors, Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly to name but a few, volunteered for service, and did so under the often tumultuous circumstances of a newly integrated armed forces and a society in the midst of a civil rights struggle? Not many.
While words do count, so do actions.
Let us not forget that, for whatever Rev. Wright may have said over the last 30 years, he has demonstrated his patriotism.
Lawrence Korb and Ian Moss are, respectively, Navy and Marine Corps veterans. They work at The Center For American Progress. Korb served as assistant secretary of Defense in the Reagan administration. -
While I disagree with Rev. Wright on his anti-solution based victim-ology rhetoric, and AIDS conspiracy theories, there are precedents to his criticisms of this country by other known and very respected men.
On the 40th anniversary of his death, it is probably appropriate to note what Martin Luther King had to say about America and its actions/ foreign policy (with respect to Vietnam):
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/058.html...As I have walked among the desperate, rejected and angry young men I have told them that Molotov cocktails and rifles would not solve their problems. I have tried to offer them my deepest compassion while maintaining my conviction that social change comes most meaningfully through nonviolent action. But they asked -- and rightly so -- what about Vietnam? They asked if our own nation wasn't using massive doses of violence to solve its problems, to bring about the changes it wanted. Their questions hit home, and I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government. For the sake of those boys, for the sake of this government, for the sake of hundreds of thousands trembling under our violence, I cannot be silent....
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Douglass#SpeechesA true patriot is a lover of his country who rebukes and does not excuse its sins."
Frederick Douglass -
Obama Che Guevara Flag ‘Scandal’
"That’s the Cuban flag with the image of Ernesto Che Guevara superimposed on it. It’s tacked onto the wall of an office in Barack Obama’s Houston campaign headquarters. An office belonging, apparently, to a low level staffer who’s in charge of setting up the office."
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/obama_che_guevara_flag_scandal/">
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/obama_che_guevara_flag_scandal/ -
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Woah..! Is he a Cuban spy?
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eggcream wrote: Barack Hussein Obama refuses to salute US flag
I always thought you put your hand over your heart during the pledge of allegiance - not the national anthem...he seems to be standing respectfully and quitely to me. Which is what you are supposed to do.
He is the only one facing away form the group around him.
They are simply copying each other because they can see each other - not real leaders - followers. Actions, not empty gestures or symbolism, prove patriotism.
And - That is not HIS office - it's some volunteer's campaign office. It is not in his senate or public office. I don't even know if this is true anyway - who said it IS an office related to him directly? It's silly.
So is the game to simply make Obama responsible for the words, actions and opinions of every person he has ever come across or supported him?
I think a lot of folks in office would be in trouble with those tactics.
Weak game.
:roll: -
eggcream wrote: Obama Che Guevara Flag ‘Scandal’
Okay!
"That’s the Cuban flag with the image of Ernesto Che Guevara superimposed on it. It’s tacked onto the wall of an office in Barack Obama’s Houston campaign headquarters. An office belonging, apparently, to a low level staffer who’s in charge of setting up the office."
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/obama_che_guevara_flag_scandal/">
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/obama_che_guevara_flag_scandal/ -
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eggcream wrote: Obama Che Guevara Flag ‘Scandal’
How is this relevant to a presidential campaign?
"That’s the Cuban flag with the image of Ernesto Che Guevara superimposed on it. It’s tacked onto the wall of an office in Barack Obama’s Houston campaign headquarters. An office belonging, apparently, to a low level staffer who’s in charge of setting up the office."
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/obama_che_guevara_flag_scandal/">
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/obama_che_guevara_flag_scandal/
Let's talk about Iraq instead, how about that? -
jeffrey wrote: Woah..! Is he a Cuban spy?
OMG! i heard this cuban jazz group play in carroll gardens last summer, and the singer looked just like BARRY HUSSEIN OBAMA!!!! this proves it is true!
or maybe it was his evil pirate twin: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/opinion/13collins.html
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