Animal Kind Vets
Hello Everyone:
I'm writing to share my experience with Animal Kind. I really should be working, but this ordeal is really eating at me. Here's what happened:
Last Sunday, I took my Yorkshire Terrier to Animal Kind because he was suffering with severe diarrhea. He crapped all over the apartment, car, ME, and himself for two days straight. So, on Sunday afternoon, I took him to Animal Kind....
They poked, prodded, gave him fluids under his skin, and prescribed an anti-biotic....They told me to feed him a bland diet of chicken and rice and then handed me a bill for $200.
Moxie stopped having diarrhea...in fact, he stopped pooping altogether! He strained and he pushed...but NOTHING came out. He didn't take a dump for 4 days. Can you imagine being constipated for 4 days?? Poor Moxie was acting lethargic, sick, depressed...
So, I called Animal Kind again. This time, I requested that they prescribe me a laxative without an office visit. Instead, they told me to bring him in for bloodwork and x-rays! I was like, "Trust me...he's constipated." Then I explained that after paying $200, I just didn't have the money to pay for another office visit and fancy, dancy tests...Especially since any moron could see what the problem was. The doctor showed no compassion and basically said, "TOUGH LUCK! We can't help you!" That's when I told her that I felt I'd been scammed...I'd shelled out $200 and my pet had gotten arguably worse. Diarrhea vs. Constipation? You decide which is worse.
And so I did what many people do when they need info. I turned to the Internet and called a doctor friend. The doc said told me to give him Ex-las and the good 'ol internet provided a recipe for a doggy laxative...
Taking the cues from the 'net, I purchased a can of pumpkin pie mix (mashed up pumpkin), added two teaspoons of olive oil, and a heaping tablespoon of wheat germ. The pumpkin mix cost a whopping $1.79!
Moxie and I laid down for an afternoon nap and then took a walk two hours later...and guess what? He pooped!
For me, this is solid evidence that Animal Kind Veterinary Clinic will milk their customers for every single dime if given the opportunity. They could've given me a home remedy, or prescibed a laxative, but instead, they told me to bring him in for expensive, unecessary tests! I was so offended and hurt by how cold the doctor was when she said she couldn't help me. It didn't matter that I'd just spend $200 5 days earlier on a treatment that didn't work!
The best part about this entire ordeal (beside the fact that my dog is okay) is what they said about me in the Moxie's medical records...I have a good mind to post their comments! What I do reccommend is getting a copy of your Vet's records from Animal Kind...you might be surprised about all the "unkind" things they say about customers when they think we're not looking.....
For emergency care, there's no place like Animal Kind. They are the best. But, for routine check-ups or small issues, take your business elsewhere.
I'm writing to share my experience with Animal Kind. I really should be working, but this ordeal is really eating at me. Here's what happened:
Last Sunday, I took my Yorkshire Terrier to Animal Kind because he was suffering with severe diarrhea. He crapped all over the apartment, car, ME, and himself for two days straight. So, on Sunday afternoon, I took him to Animal Kind....
They poked, prodded, gave him fluids under his skin, and prescribed an anti-biotic....They told me to feed him a bland diet of chicken and rice and then handed me a bill for $200.
Moxie stopped having diarrhea...in fact, he stopped pooping altogether! He strained and he pushed...but NOTHING came out. He didn't take a dump for 4 days. Can you imagine being constipated for 4 days?? Poor Moxie was acting lethargic, sick, depressed...
So, I called Animal Kind again. This time, I requested that they prescribe me a laxative without an office visit. Instead, they told me to bring him in for bloodwork and x-rays! I was like, "Trust me...he's constipated." Then I explained that after paying $200, I just didn't have the money to pay for another office visit and fancy, dancy tests...Especially since any moron could see what the problem was. The doctor showed no compassion and basically said, "TOUGH LUCK! We can't help you!" That's when I told her that I felt I'd been scammed...I'd shelled out $200 and my pet had gotten arguably worse. Diarrhea vs. Constipation? You decide which is worse.
And so I did what many people do when they need info. I turned to the Internet and called a doctor friend. The doc said told me to give him Ex-las and the good 'ol internet provided a recipe for a doggy laxative...
Taking the cues from the 'net, I purchased a can of pumpkin pie mix (mashed up pumpkin), added two teaspoons of olive oil, and a heaping tablespoon of wheat germ. The pumpkin mix cost a whopping $1.79!
Moxie and I laid down for an afternoon nap and then took a walk two hours later...and guess what? He pooped!
For me, this is solid evidence that Animal Kind Veterinary Clinic will milk their customers for every single dime if given the opportunity. They could've given me a home remedy, or prescibed a laxative, but instead, they told me to bring him in for expensive, unecessary tests! I was so offended and hurt by how cold the doctor was when she said she couldn't help me. It didn't matter that I'd just spend $200 5 days earlier on a treatment that didn't work!
The best part about this entire ordeal (beside the fact that my dog is okay) is what they said about me in the Moxie's medical records...I have a good mind to post their comments! What I do reccommend is getting a copy of your Vet's records from Animal Kind...you might be surprised about all the "unkind" things they say about customers when they think we're not looking.....
For emergency care, there's no place like Animal Kind. They are the best. But, for routine check-ups or small issues, take your business elsewhere.
Comments
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Subject: Re: Animal Kind Vets
RBG wrote:
When a dog or human being has really severe diarrhea, once the illness subsides, it can take QUITE A WHILE for the intestines to, er, 'fill up with crap' enough so as to let one actually have a bowel movement again, since the diarrhea pretty much totally, completely, empties them out. As you may or may not know, all of us (and dogs) walk around with an abdomen full of dookie at any given moment, even if you don't 'feel' it. Yes, it might even take days to become normal again, and during that time you're not going to feel like a million bucks since your body was pretty much in shock.
Moxie stopped having diarrhea...in fact, he stopped pooping altogether! He strained and he pushed...but NOTHING came out. He didn't take a dump for 4 days. Can you imagine being constipated for 4 days?? Poor Moxie was acting lethargic, sick, depressed...
.
I guess what I mean is that I don't think your little foofey was actually constipated - more like recovering, and I don't think the vets did anything so outrageous. -
I think your judgment is a bit harsh. It sounds to me like Animal Kind was being completely appropriate in not giving a prescription over the phone for a problem that they hadn't evaluated the dog for. They had originally seen the dog for diarrhea, and it sounds like that resolved. When you called them for constipation, it seems completely appropriate for them to want to check the animal again before just throwing medications at it. Now I'm a doc, not a vet, but if this had been a human, s/he might have had a partial bowel obstruction with only liquids getting through, which appeared like diarrhea, and then the obstruction became complete. I wonder what your post here would have said if your dog died of a bowel rupture after they prescribed medicine for it over the phone without evaluating it. Luckily for your dog, you got away with it this time and your dog is ok. But don't blame them for trying to do the right thing by your dog.
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Subject: Re: Animal Kind Vets
RBG wrote: The best part about this entire ordeal (beside the fact that my dog is okay) is what they said about me in the Moxie's medical records...I have a good mind to post their comments! What I do reccommend is getting a copy of your Vet's records from Animal Kind...you might be surprised about all the "unkind" things they say about customers when they think we're not looking.....
So O.K. what did they write about YOU in the chart?
We have been through the Animal Kind wars 100 times (for and against). I think they are outrageously expensive but would go back in an emergency. To me, what the story reminds me, is to use your common sense sometimes with animals before rushing to Animal Kind for 200 expensive tests costing $150/pop. With cats especially, I think less is more as the tests can stress them out and make things worse. -
Subject: Valuable Feedback
Thanks Everyone for the valuable feedback. The doctor did in fact say that it often takes a while for a dog to store enough poop to actually go after a few days of diarrhea. They also mentioned that he could have a bowel obstruction. While I'm no doctor, I do know that antiobiotics sometimes cause severe constipation. I would've taken Moxie back to the Vet (but not animal kind) if the homemade laxative didn't work. Again, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to diagnose constipation. Here's what Animal Kind wrote in Moxie's chart...This will make for interesting conversation when I visit the new vet. Please keep in mind that this is VERY subjective and while the doctor used various descriptions to describe me, what she failed to mention is the medication she gave my dog actually had an adverse effect. There are several other inaccuracies in here as well. Clearly, I take exception to being called "hostile." The doctors knew how to call me back when it was time to take my money, but once there was a problem, everyone was mysteriously unavailable....
Here it is:
Client Communication - TC - w/ Mrs. Owner apparently hostile to
receptionist complaining that she called this AM and has not spoken to
a Dr yet. Vernique explained Dr. Black called her back but cannot call
now b/c she is in sx. O insisted on speaking to someone right now and
Vernique transferred her to me.
O said she thinks dog is constipated. Dog was boarded over the
weekend and came out with bad diarrhea. O was seen here Sunday and
given metronidazole. She said dog has only defecated a small amt on
Tuesday and strained a lot to do that -feces was soft though. She
cleaned away some poop today from rear end and it was hard. Owner
thinks the antibiotic made him constipated. I offered that after bad
bouts of diarrhea, dogs often do not defecate for a few days because
their system is empty. O very upset that her dog is very uncomfortable
and is not doing well. I recom re-check and consider x-rays to check
for constipation(+/- bloods). O very upset she spent so much money
for nothing. She is upset she spent so much money for the fecal and it
was negative. I told her this was standard protocol. I reiterated her two
options were re-check or continue to observe at home given what I
stated before. O wants me to okay giving a laxative. I strongly recom
against w/o knowing if he is constipated - could make diarrrhea worse.
Patient History Report -
O not okay with that and became rather hostile. She says she feels like
we are scamming her. I told her the decision is up to her for what to
do. db (Dr. Dionne Burnett) -
Well, you know sometimes places work or don't for people for various reasons. I'm pretty sure better communication and customer service on AK's part would have helped and likewise RBG was in a state of panic (pets are our kids afterall) and could have probably approached the situation better.
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They used to be my Vet when they were on 13th St. I found a dog once in the street. We were dead broke at the time - we had purchased a fixer upper house with our very last penny and were in the process of moving but I really wanted to keep the dog. Not only would Animal Kind not treat the dog, but they threw me out of the office because the dog had been on the street for a while. They gave me no help at all. They did let me post a sign just in case someone was looking for the dog.
I called all over the place trying to find help but had no luck. I ended up having to give the dog up to the Humane society and he was put down. When we moved to New Jersey we found a wonderful Vet that always took care of the Animals that people had found - I wish that I had known that before we moved.
It was all a very devastating experience and I will never, ever,. ever take my pets there. -
filmlover44 wrote: When we moved to New Jersey we found a wonderful Vet that always took care of the Animals that people had found…
It's probably easier for vets to do this in smaller towns.
Also, about the cost: I love Animal Kind, but before I bring my cat there I always mentally prepare myself to spend as much as I would in a real human emergency room… -
prospectus wrote: [quote=filmlover44]When we moved to New Jersey we found a wonderful Vet that always took care of the Animals that people had found…
It's probably easier for vets to do this in smaller towns.
Also, about the cost: I love Animal Kind, but before I bring my cat there I always mentally prepare myself to spend as much as I would in a real human emergency room…
I will use them in an emergency situation armed with a credit card with a large limit. otherwise, my business in this town goes to Hope. they are fabulous vets, they don't do tests for no good reason, and they are reasonable with their costs. and seriously, my visits to AK were costing more like $1,000 a pop. infuriating. -
Dr Burnett is an awesome vet and knows what she is doing.
I personally don't see anything wrong with the write up that was made in the records.
It's anecdotal evidence and must be recorded, I do the same when documenting situations in my class room or conversations with parent's or social workers... -
A pet is like a child in that it is a wholly dependent innocent to whom you have an endless obligation. It is not a right. It is certainly not something to which the doctors have an obligation without payment. If you cannot meet the expense of this potentially significant obligation, where do you get off taking on the dog? Take some personal responsibility instead of blaming the doctors for trying to do right by the animal.
mod note: name-calling deleted. please remember the rules. -
How do you report an offensive post. Is there a button that I'm not seeing?
mod note: there is no such button (though it's not a bad idea). the thing to do is pm a mod or admin. -
prospectus wrote: [quote=filmlover44]When we moved to New Jersey we found a wonderful Vet that always took care of the Animals that people had found…
It's probably easier for vets to do this in smaller towns.
Also, about the cost: I love Animal Kind, but before I bring my cat there I always mentally prepare myself to spend as much as I would in a real human emergency room…
This vet had a 1.5 to 2 hour waiting time, he was the most popular vet in the Montclair/Bloomfield area...for good reason. He took care of the local shelter pets and never turned someone away if they couldn't afford to pay, especially if they rescued a stray.
This is him: http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/NJ150.html -
Sorry. I wouldn't have imagined calling someone "selfish" would be considered name calling. Why don't I rephrase: In my opinion, one is behaving in a selfish manner when one takes on an adorable and enjoyable, but wholly dependent creature without the means of supporting such an innocent. Better?
If you want to see offensive, read the bikini wax thread or any number of other posts. I suspect, however, some people only get offended when someone has a different opinion than theirs. -
Here's the thing, everyone should have the opportunity to own a pet if they desire. The willingness to take an animal into one's home as a companion should not be limited to the rich. At the same time, any consumer should not be considered selfish when they question whether or not they are receiving value for what the service is costing them.
Your view is that rather than question what the results were for the expense incurred, RBG should just be happy that her dog is now better? Why? What's wrong with questioning the service and the value for that service? So if she she had a child instead of a dog under the same scenario you'd say that she should just pay her money and not question the treatment?
Whether or not she should have known that Animal Kind charges big $$$$'s for service, she is neither selfish for not wanting to throw her money away, or for wanting to provide her pet with some relief.
Finally, being concerned with how you spend your money doesn't mean you are poor, it just means you are less likely to become poorer. -
..and in this case, it might be instructive to look up a very old thread and find out what "RBG" stands for. (hint: she drives a bmw, if i recall correctly.)
tajmb: check your private messages, if you haven't already.
RBG: i know you're upset, but carnivore is 10000% correct on this one. -
Um, I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think only the "rich" should have pets or that RBG isn't so fortunate. I am sure I couldn't care less what kind of car s/he has. So, ok, it's not simply about having the financial means to assume what can at times be the substantial expense of a pet. It is about being willing to take on the responsibility.
My sense was that the OP and some others feel vets should not charge so much for their services regardless of how well they provide such services. The problem with that is that it costs vets just as much as doctors to educate themselves, the lab work costs just as much, many of the meds cost just as much. While it's great for a vet to do pro bono work, it is not their obligation.
If you get the benefit of the pet, you should be willing to pay the price for its proper care. You don't have to be rich to do this. -
Not all vets do "charity" work. I've been in other positions with sick pets where I could not afford care and had to put the animal down, I didn't blame the vet.
Anyone looking for a vet want to do a search on other posts that have been made here about Animal Kind. -
Subject: Moxie the dog...
Hello Neighbors:
I really do appreciate everyone's feedback on this issue. Let me be clear---I have been an customer at Animal Kind from the time I adopted Moxie from a rescue agency almost 9 years ago. I have never neglected to pay for his medical care and have done everything possible to insure that he has had a wonderful life. That being said, I have also found myself paying for expensive and often un-necessary tests at Animal Kind. I have endure the condescending attitude of some (not all!) of its doctors---and I have allowed them to gouge me for uneccessary tests and sat by as they've pressured me into having Moxie's teeth cleaned and treated for an estimated $1000.00...Mind you, HE DOES need his teeth cleaned.
In THIS case, I finally reached the my breaking point with AK. I went to them, in good faith, and told them exactly what was wrong with Moxie. I even pointed out that they'd treated him in the past for the same ailment. I offered to give them a stool sample, let them put liquids under his skin, etc. I was HAPPY to pay the almost $200 for his treatment. My problem arose when he got WORSE, not better. I felt as if I'd paid for something that didn't work. I paid to have my dog treated and when I called back to say the treatment didn't work, I was treated by an unsensitive, surly doctor. I by no means expected free treatment, but to hear that Moxie should be brought back in for bloodowork, xrays, etc. was unacceptable. Only a fool would believe the doctor on the other end of the phone didn't know about a home remedy for pet constipation. Please be clear---I would have taken Moxie back to the pet if he didn't poop by the next day. In fact, I'd already made an appointment with another vet.
For the record, I no longer drive a BMW. And while I had $500 bucks for testing, I am not one who spends money foolishly. When I pay for something, I expect to get what I paid for. I also expect decent customer service. I would go into debt to save Moxie's life, but I will surely not be taken for a ride by moneygrubbiing vets. I am no fool.
At the point, I'm just happy he's okay. -
once again, RBG and I are somewhat in agreement. scary.
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I had a big expensive, multi-month AK experience years ago with our aging Abyssinian cat. Long story short, there were tests, blood work, injections, x-rays and finally, proposed major surgery before my brain fought and won the battle with my heart that I could no longer afford the thousands I had dumped into this adorable creature.
The upshot after those many trips (and payments) to AK, was a long subway ride to the Humane Society to have the cat euthenized one St. Patrick's Day morning.
I miss the cat dearly (so much that I have been reluctant to replace her after nearly 10 years), but I do not look back fondly at the guilt-tripping into debt I got at AK and other NYC vets.
Back in the rural are where I grew up, the local vet (and long-time friend of my family) had a much more pragmatic approach. At the age of 10, I brought my hamster to him with a scratched and inflamed eye. The doctor took a look and suggested I throw it out and get a new one. I kept the hamster, the eye actually heeled over (so I renamed it "Cyclops") and it lived another year without the care of a vet before it died. -
Subject: Re: Valuable Feedback
RBG wrote: Thanks Everyone for the valuable feedback. The doctor did in fact say that it often takes a while for a dog to store enough poop to actually go after a few days of diarrhea. They also mentioned that he could have a bowel obstruction. While I'm no doctor, I do know that antiobiotics sometimes cause severe constipation. I would've taken Moxie back to the Vet (but not animal kind) if the homemade laxative didn't work. Again, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to diagnose constipation. Here's what Animal Kind wrote in Moxie's chart...This will make for interesting conversation when I visit the new vet. Please keep in mind that this is VERY subjective and while the doctor used various descriptions to describe me, what she failed to mention is the medication she gave my dog actually had an adverse effect. There are several other inaccuracies in here as well. Clearly, I take exception to being called "hostile." The doctors knew how to call me back when it was time to take my money, but once there was a problem, everyone was mysteriously unavailable....
I am confused. What is this document?
Here it is:
Client Communication - TC - w/ Mrs. Owner apparently hostile to
receptionist complaining that she called this AM and has not spoken to
a Dr yet. Vernique explained Dr. Black called her back but cannot call
now b/c she is in sx. O insisted on speaking to someone right now and
Vernique transferred her to me.
O said she thinks dog is constipated. Dog was boarded over the
weekend and came out with bad diarrhea. O was seen here Sunday and
given metronidazole. She said dog has only defecated a small amt on
Tuesday and strained a lot to do that -feces was soft though. She
cleaned away some poop today from rear end and it was hard. Owner
thinks the antibiotic made him constipated. I offered that after bad
bouts of diarrhea, dogs often do not defecate for a few days because
their system is empty. O very upset that her dog is very uncomfortable
and is not doing well. I recom re-check and consider x-rays to check
for constipation(+/- bloods). O very upset she spent so much money
for nothing. She is upset she spent so much money for the fecal and it
was negative. I told her this was standard protocol. I reiterated her two
options were re-check or continue to observe at home given what I
stated before. O wants me to okay giving a laxative. I strongly recom
against w/o knowing if he is constipated - could make diarrrhea worse.
Patient History Report -
O not okay with that and became rather hostile. She says she feels like
we are scamming her. I told her the decision is up to her for what to
do. db (Dr. Dionne Burnett)
Is it normal for vets to record this type of information and then give it to their clients? -
filmlover44 wrote: They used to be my Vet when they were on 13th St. I found a dog once in the street. We were dead broke at the time - we had purchased a fixer upper house with our very last penny and were in the process of moving but I really wanted to keep the dog. Not only would Animal Kind not treat the dog, but they threw me out of the office because the dog had been on the street for a while. They gave me no help at all. They did let me post a sign just in case someone was looking for the dog.
Please...Animal Kind cannot be responsible for all of Park Slope's homeless animals. AK would get at least 10 dogs daily if they were required to admit them.
I called all over the place trying to find help but had no luck. I ended up having to give the dog up to the Humane society and he was put down. When we moved to New Jersey we found a wonderful Vet that always took care of the Animals that people had found - I wish that I had known that before we moved.
It was all a very devastating experience and I will never, ever,. ever take my pets there. -
Ah, I remember about 7 years ago when someone left a young dog tied up to the bus stop outside AK. They were well aware the dog was abandoned and chose to leave him there for hours. It was only until I promised to take him if he wasn't claimed that they very reluctantly agreed to take him inside for a few hours. Their inaction and utter lack of compassion was astounding to me at the time. The dog was terrified and freaked out every time a bus went by.
My dislike of AK is well known but considering I haven't had one good experience with them I think it's understandable. -
Subject: Re: Valuable Feedback
Yes, RAW it is normal procedure. They record every conversation they have with the owner primarily because they are treating an entity that is not able to communicate for itself and for situations like this. Additionally, many clients use more than one veterinarian. In the case where an owner is seeking a second opinion it is essential that the next Dr. is aware of what tests have been done, what discussion have been had, etc.
The owner is entitled to a copy of the record which is why RBG has this.
Veterinarian medicine, like human medicine, follows protocols...very well researched protocols that branch out from a sympton. The animal can not speak for itself, therefore they must rely on it's owner to describe the circumstances. This anecdotal evidence provided by the owner either in the exam room or on the phone is helpful in diagnosis, however they must rely on physical evidence via palpation or laboratory results. Vets can not legally prescribe medicine without a physical exam for that specific condition.
Diarrhea and vomitting are the most common symptons seen in the exam room. They are associated with hundreds of conditions. Many that could be life-threatening.
Vets do not have crystal balls.
Animal Kind is extraordinarily expensive. However the doctors there do not make the prices...the owner does. Take up issues with them...not the receptionist making $10/hr or the vet techs making $14/hr. or the Drs.
(FYI: most vets aren't rich like medical doctors. Starting salary: Vet=$50,000; Medical Doctor=$125,00).
Does anyone know who owns Animal Kind? -
Hope Animal Clinic on Atlantic is amazing. My husband and I discovered them when our cat had ingested some tainted cat food (remember THAT debacle?!)
Animal Kind was booked, so we took her to Hope on a hope and a prayer and they were wonderfully helpful and understanding and called back to check on her progress!
After many experiences with AK, which I went to for convenience of location, and left everytime feeling like neglectful, abusive mother after 20 minutes of patronizing because my cat required the bird of prey gloves to inspect her, Hope is a welcome addition to my emergency #s book. -
I can't imagine what Gibson has written about me but I'm sure it's nothing nice.
-
I've been too kind to Animal Kind. I love my vet there, and I love 3 specific vet techs, but everyone else seems terribly annoyed to have to do their job. Besides, their rates are exorbitant. I can't get out of there for less than $300 - even if it's routine. There will always be something they test for that gets mentioned in a very passing way even at regular check-ups... and then ends up costing $179. If something is going to cost a lot it should be discussed first.
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