In defense of St Johns Place
There's been some chatter about St Johns Pl between Wash and UH being a bastion for the crime underworld so I just want to say I love my block! I like most of the guys that hang outside, sure sometimes there's a sexual harasser in the lot but not the regulars. I love the girls taking up the whole sidewalk playing double dutch. I love the front stoop BBQs. I love the guys at either corner store. I love Ali's laundry. There's a few dogwalkers that are nice that I say hi to, I'm aware that crimes have taken place here recently but I still have to say that I don't feel particularly unsafe. And I hope I didn't just jinx myself.
Comments
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I know many cool people on Crazy Lane. It's quite an eccentric block. I was saying that like anywhere in NYC to be careful. This block is long and at night can be dark in spots where crime noteably occurs. Very nice rose bushes and surprisingly attractive scattered architecture add to the surreal charm of Crazy Lane.
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Yes, agreed, Park Man. You think I would disagree with Park Man? No. Way. No one on Crazy Lane is that crazy.
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Park Man nailed it.
I had a lot of really bad experiences, some localized to my building and due to the fact that my landlord is a slumlord, however I've caught a lot of negative attitude, been called cracker alot and have been basically felt unwelcome since I moved there over a year ago. I've also been the victim of several crimes.
I don't argue that others may not have this problem, you're lucky, it works for you. Not for me. Maybe I'm unlucky or there's something about the way I carry myself that elicits a different response from what other people who enjoy the block get.
Also, in debate with my girlfriend and several non-caucasian people, my GF admitted that she's never had a problem, period but everyone seemed to acknowledge that by virtue of my race and gender, it's basically open season on me, while she and others of my age, gender, size and income have no problems yet are of different racial backgrounds. Affluence or the appearence of may contribute something to this, but honestly, I wouldn't be living on that street, renting a hole in the wall if I had the means to afford better.
What I'm trying to say is, I'm glad people have good experiences there. I want the neighborhood to thrive and get along. I've lived in much, much worse ghettos, but that block brought the most trouble, abuse and stress. I've moved to Washington Ave as of a few days ago and while I acknowledge that it's silly, I refuse to walk down that St Johns anymore. I've had it. That may change someday, but for now it's best, because my anger and resentment is pretty high. -
Damn Dave B, that really blows. Sorry to hear about your hardships on Crazy Lane. Hopefully, Washington Ave. will be more of a positive experience.
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Can't we all just get along?
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I Love my block - which is this one-- haven't had any trouble...
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I like the block a lot but I definitely don't love the stoop BBQs. I hate to sound like an asshole (actually, no I don't care), but you'd think the park would be more fun for a BBQ. I know some of my family members used to that. Yesterday I was lugging two bags of laundry and the assholes sitting on the steps wouldn't even shift. I should've dumped it on their heads! :evil:
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Candicissima wrote: Yesterday I was lugging two bags of laundry and the assholes sitting on the steps wouldn't even shift. I should've dumped it on their heads! :evil:
I will personally pay you $1 for every bag you pelt them with. That's 100 pennies! -
For the record i have lived on st johns place/underhill for three years and have NEVER had any sort of problem. my big homo self used to walk down st johns to bedford avenue at all times of the day/night to see my bf in bed-sty.
Thats not to say nothing can/does happen, but maybe a change of attitude could help.
St Johns place is my home, the people on the block my neighbors, and i act like that.
And seriously, if your neighbors don't move when you're carrying your laundry, i don't think it calls for some sort of retaliation, maybe you could just ask them to move. if you can't even talk to the people in your building or on your block, then don't come online and complain about how they treat you. -
My attitude is polite and I keep to myself which should be more than adequate for any neighborhood in any part of NYC. I greet people I pass, hold doors, whatever a human being should do to another. Maybe your "big homo" self has a more likable face than mine.
Seriously, I don't mean to get mad, but who the flying fuck do you think you are to say a change of attitude is what I need? So, by your logic, if I see YOU getting mugged, getting your ass beat, with no one coming to your aid but just sitting on their stoops, just watching, I should walk by your bleeding ass and suggest you have a change of attitude? -
guest wrote: And seriously, if your neighbors don't move when you're carrying your laundry, i don't think it calls for some sort of retaliation, maybe you could just ask them to move. if you can't even talk to the people in your building or on your block, then don't come online and complain about how they treat you.
I didn't say I was planning it next time or anything, guest, but that episode was really frustrating. You try lugging a bag of laundry almost bigger than you down the block in the hot sun and then having to struggle past people who were just being assholes. I don't think there's anything wrong with a little ranting here -- isn't this kinda what the board is for and all -- Prospect Heights warts and all? I'm actually a really good neighbor, so you don't know what you're talking about. I should be able to say that it pissed me off that I was passing back and forth all afternoon and said excuse me every time and sometimes they'd halfheartedly shift a half inch, others they just ignored me. I have the right to call that family rude. -
daveb- could you elaborate on the crimes that you have been a victim of on the block? it might make me feel better to know what kinds of things to look out for. thanks!
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I am sorry bad things happened to you Dave. I have talked to some of the guys in the nabe and they have said it can be rough. So no one should be kidding themselves about being aware ...
That said it is an old neihgborhood and GENERATIONS of people have lived here and live here - I've been neighborly and warmly treated - and I've also been treated as suspect until proven otherwise...just how I would be if I had been here forever and a wave of new folks came along.
I wll say it's a huge improvement either way from living in California for 25 year and never having a neighbor say "hey how ya doin?" .... -
Subject: Get Used to It
Hey Everyone:
Sometimes I laugh at the white people who move into the nastiest buildings in the hood. Common sense should tell you that the brothas smoking weed in front of your building and the Escalades blasting music in front of your window aren't going to disappear just because you signed a lease. Like the cockroaches and mice in your apartments, the boyz in the hood are here to stay. Either get used to it, or move to Park Slop....White people think its cool to move to the ghetto, but then get freaked out when they're confronted with the realities of the hood. Face it---when you move into the ghetto, you become a moving target. When you ride your vintage bicycle with the basket, you're a target. When you're listening to your little Ipod, you're a target. When you go jogging at 6am in your tight little shorts and jogbra, you're a target. When you turn up your nose and act like you don't see your black neighbors, you're a target. I make six figures, drive a BMW (and a vintage bike), own a gorgeous two bedroom apartment, and probably have more education than most of the whiners on this list---but unlike you, I'm not a target. The brothas watch my car instead of vandalize and say hello---why? Because I look like them and because they respect me. And I also respect them. Trust me, people are not poor and unemployed because they wanna be...like you, they're also victims of circumstance. If you think any of these guys wanna be hustlers, get a clue...the pay isn't so hot and the benefits suck! -
Subject: keepin it real
The litter, people hanging out and making noise late, the anti-social behavior in general - I don't care what color you are, it sucks and contributes to a negative vibe in the neighborhood. It is, however, forseeable. If you're white and you bought here surely you knew there'd be trying times - yes? The neighborhood isn't going to transform overnight just b/c you arrived though your arrival and increased numbers will spur faster change. If you're black and laugh at other people's misfortunes, it's your prerogative but it pretty much makes you an a**hole (just to be clear). Me, I'm Puerto Rican, lived in the nabe for about 7 years til I decided the ever-escalating rent wasn't worth it. My new nabe (4th ave and 19th street) is arguably less pretty and definitely poorer, but the people I've encountered so far seem to respect the social norms that make a neighborhood a livable place. The anger that you find in places like Prospect Hts over the changing demographics just isn't as severe. Most blue-collar families I know from the south slope areas, sunset park, windsor terrace, greenwood hts, etc., can't believe the fortunes that await them when they retire and realize the massive gains their properties have accrued since they first bought (for peanuts) in the late 70s and early 80s. -
Subject: Get Over It ...
I think the operative word in your post is "everyone" ... I think if you take the time to read through the overall message board there is quite a diversity of opinion on numerous subjects, as well as diversity in race, age and ethnicity in the makeup of the people who post. There is no monolithic "everyone" here -- just as there is no monolithic "them" elsewhere. And, believe it or not, some don't even have vintage bikes. My sense also is that Daveb was pretty much minding his own business when he had his run-in that left him pretty messed up. How that makes him a "walking target" I don't know. Not sure if he had an i-Pod with him, though.
I deal with people one person at a time and kind of expect others to do the same with me. It's harder that way -- you have to keep your mind open and spend a bit more time, but that way you can savor the individuality of the people you meet and your life becomes richer as a result. It's a good thing. -
Subject: Re: Get Used to It
Richblackgirl wrote: I also respect them. Trust me, people are not poor and unemployed because they wanna be...like you, they're also victims of circumstance. If you think any of these guys wanna be hustlers, get a clue...the pay isn't so hot and the benefits suck!
i feel like this last piece of your post is the strength to your argument. the other stuff...while you speak the truth...i don't feel the aggressive tone does justice to your arguement. especially your "target" comments. it is unfortunate and one could also say that the kids hanging on the street are the targets for the NYPD. so just as they have the right to be there so does the one who takes a 6am jog, or a stroll late at night. it's cyclical...stop it by stopping the crap attitudes both ways.
i believe that everyone has the right to live where they want and make their neighborhood feel like a neighborhood and their home feel like a home. i have no problem with the kids on my stoop except i wish they could walk the 10 yards to the trash can so i don't have to pick up their empty bags of chips, tobacco and styrofoam containers. respect is a two way street. i'm white and i live in PH b/c i can't afford anywhere else. plus i love the library! -
Subject: nicely put
Well put, digital d and FLUTE! Respect. -
Subject: Re: Get Used to It
Yeah, good point Richblackgirl. And on that note, I feel the same way about black people going into Howard Beach. If you're black and you go into the white hood, you deserve to get your ass kicked, just like the hipsters in the ghetto. Long live racial bigotry and violence! Oh wait, someone must have forgotten to tell Richblackgirl that black people are victimized by other blacks 10 times as much as white people....Richblackgirl wrote: Hey Everyone:
Sometimes I laugh at the white people who move into the nastiest buildings in the hood. Common sense should tell you that the brothas smoking weed in front of your building and the Escalades blasting music in front of your window aren't going to disappear just because you signed a lease. Like the cockroaches and mice in your apartments, the boyz in the hood are here to stay. Either get used to it, or move to Park Slop....White people think its cool to move to the ghetto, but then get freaked out when they're confronted with the realities of the hood. Face it---when you move into the ghetto, you become a moving target. When you ride your vintage bicycle with the basket, you're a target. When you're listening to your little Ipod, you're a target. When you go jogging at 6am in your tight little shorts and jogbra, you're a target. When you turn up your nose and act like you don't see your black neighbors, you're a target. I make six figures, drive a BMW (and a vintage bike), own a gorgeous two bedroom apartment, and probably have more education than most of the whiners on this list---but unlike you, I'm not a target. The brothas watch my car instead of vandalize and say hello---why? Because I look like them and because they respect me. And I also respect them. Trust me, people are not poor and unemployed because they wanna be...like you, they're also victims of circumstance. If you think any of these guys wanna be hustlers, get a clue...the pay isn't so hot and the benefits suck! -
Subject: Re: Get Used to It - In Reverse
Let's see how Richblackgirl's post reads in reverse:
Sometimes I laugh at the black people who come to our nice quiet neighborhood in Howard Beach. Common sense should tell you that the mobsters sitting in front of the pizza place and the teenage thugs dealing weed on the corner aren't going to disappear just because our highschool teachers told us "racism is bad". Like the smell of garlic and aregano, the boyz in the beach are here to stay. Either get used to it, or move to the projects.....black people think it's cool to pretend they can leave the ghetto, but then get freaked out when bat-wielding gangs chase them into the street. Face it, when you come to the beach, you become a moving target. When you wear baggy jeans and sneakers, you're a target. When your headphones are buzzing with hip hop beats, you're a target. When you're prowling the beach looking for cars to steal, you're a target. When you turn up your nose and act like you don't see your white neighbors, you're a target. I make six figures, drive a BMW (and a ninja), own a gorgeous beach house, and probably served more time in the can than most of the whiners on this list--but unlike you, I'm not a target. The mobsters watch my car instead of vandalize and say hello--why? Because I've got blond hair and big tits so they respect me. And I also respect them. Trust me, people don't become fat, chain-wearing thugs because they wanna be...like you, they're also victims of circumstance. If you think any of these guys wanna randomly chase innocent black teenagers through the streets in a crazed, racist fervor, get a clue...the pay isn't so hot and the benefits suck!
Gee, on second thought this post seems awfully racist...but I'm sure Richblackgirl didn't mean it that way. -
I make six figures, drive a BMW (and a vintage bike), own a gorgeous two bedroom apartment, and probably have more education than most of the whiners on this list
congratu-fucking-lations. -
What about Japanese people?
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Howard nailed it.
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Subject: jp ppl:
well, the japanese people there probably are safe because if they're female, their boyfriends may very well be one of the men smokin fatties on the corner stoop. in addition, because they occupy the middle ground, ie they are not picked on because they get props for naively moving to the 'hood' and eke-ing it out amidst all the white v black sentiment.
and to answer your questions, yes, japanese women are attracted to black men. go to japan one day and you'll understand. -
"I make six figures, drive a BMW (and a vintage bike), own a gorgeous two bedroom apartment, and probably have more education than most of the whiners on this list"
Aren't these nouveau riche types a riot? Everything but wearing the price tags on her clothes. Classically garish! -
ugh. the tone of this thread is making me ill.
the key to dealing with any bully is to know when to use a thousand yard stare, or alternatively to look them directly in the eye.
also, a willingess to one-up them on "crazy" can help. case in point: there were these guys once on my stoop who were looking to buy a cooler from lenny the hoarder crackhead who lurks about my block fencing various items he digs out of the trash. they were blocking my way into my building, and before they would let me pass, they asked me how many pieces would they have to chop a body into in order to fit it in to the cooler (presumably as a way of freaking me out?). i said, "well if you just got a small child, you'd only have to cut it in half, also you'd have less gore and guts to clean up after." their jaws just sort of dropped, and then we all smiled and laughed...and i don't think i ever saw those guys again. well, except for lenny.
however, this is not the approach one should take with the neighbors. the key to dealing with one's neighbors is to be polite and courteous at all times, and eventually it will be reciprocated. -
I don't know, the post from RBG seems sort of trollish. The kind of thing a disgruntled person might say to piss people off and stir things up.
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Isa wrote: I don't know, the post from RBG seems sort of trollish. The kind of thing a disgruntled person might say to piss people off and stir things up.
no kidding! its pretty funny, actually, how many people will bite the troll-bait.
this whole thread is just mindbogglingly dumb. if youre the sort of person who needs coaching in order to survive living in the neighborhood/house you yourself chose, then either you dont deserve to live, or you are waaaay too new to new york. i mean, all this tremendously contrived "fear of the thugs (i,e: fear of... oh no... *black people*)" aside, show me someone who cant navigate/relate/interact/avoid/befriend/stand-up-to (as necessary) the humans that surround them, and ill show you someone who grew up in a bubble, or someone who is at least astonishingly naive with a dash of race/self-esteem issues.
i mean, dont get me wrong. there are certain dangers that are very real and certain precautions people with a propensity towards victimization can take... but most of those can be wholly covered by common sense without having to flame a msg board about it, eh?
it is possible to live in prospect heights, be a WASP, befriend and coexist with the local hatian preacher, coke dealer, street thug, dred, boricua, yuppie, lesbian, person who doesnt clean up his dog's shit, delivery man, cute hipster girl and crip banger from the block all without getting jumped or having your radio stolen from your car. trust me. ive managed to do it, and im as white, volvo-driving, ipod listening, vintage bike-riding as they come!
flame that
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This board definitely gets more than it's fair share of trolls. Richwhatever struck me as just that. If she's real, she's a total ass, and not representative of our neighborhood at all.
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Mod here. Although richblackgirl's post didn't strike me as 100% productive, it's not like she's coming back to flame everybody, and you're not flaming each other, so I don't really see any problem with this thread. Seems to me like she has pretty much failed to stir things up. So carry on!, oh peaceful ProHoites...
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