copters are back

This block party definitely had a permit. I live on the block and every year in the month leading up to the party, the organizers solicit donations and call it the St. Johns Place Block Association Party and Child Safety Day -- or something like that. Laughable at this point.

What makes the lack of police presence more stark to me (and I did not see a single cop on the block, not when I was out at 11am, 3pm or 8:30pm) is having just been to the Philharmonic in the Park on Wednesday. I must have seen 50+ cops there to keep the peace among the wine-sipping, classical-music listening masses.

It would seem obvious that the PD wouldn't grant a permit for this particular block party next year ... but sometimes what happens in this precinct runs counter to the obvious.

Subject: Restrict the next block party

I agree that an event like this should be banned in the future. Jones
should have a block party like others in the city: a party
to celebrate and meet your neighbors on the street and the
surrounding area, not to bring in thousands of outsiders.
It should begin at noon and end at six: the cops should
be on hand at all times and should return the block to normal
traffic. And like the Carribbean parade, the block should be
immediately cleaned up afterwards. Finally, ONE sound system
and not some MySpace advertised "battle of the djs." Mike
Jones was clearly unable to control the party. In fact, one of
our friends on St. Johns told us that 90 minutes AFTER the murders,
a dj was still blasting music on the block and encouraging people to
party.


We saw an interview with Jones where he claimed that
the block party theme had something to do with protecting
children. Tell that to the mothers and families we saw
running for their lives on Washington Avenue.

I'm having a problem with the way this discussion is going down. I'm feeling defensive because I not only know Mike Jones, but fully respect him and many others who work hard to make our street safe. It sounds like people who don't really know him or the inner workings on our block and are reacting inappropriately.

Mike Jones has been a wonderful presence on this block (where I've lived for 5 years) and will continue to be. Mike and his father (who was the President of the Block Association back in the day) planted all of the trees that line on our block. He is invested in this block, in our neighborhood and in every person who walks down the street.

He's been a positive role model for so many young kids, and has single handedly (seriously, the only person) worked to ensure we have a block party every year. Last year, it didn't happen. Why? No one else stepped up when he was out of town. And he's devastated that an event he worked so hard on, one that he pours his hear into could have resulted in a horrific event like this.

I helped him solicit donations for this block party for the past 3 years (including this year) because I believe in this block, i believe people should have a day where they can meet their neighbors, where kids can run down the street, play in the fire hydrants and have fun.

I agree, a police force would be wonderful - let's talk about the police WILLINGNESS to help out the residents of St. Johns Place. Because in my experience they are completely unhelpful to the point of negligence (unless of course it's to harass innocent hard working people).

I'm a white resident, I was a part of the block association for one year. I wave to my neighbors, I say hello to people on the street. I take an interest in what goes down on the block and I probably only know about 10% of the residents.

I think this discussion needs to be reevaluated.

And please, tell me how you only have a block party for residents only? Card people? It's a ridiculous statement.

The St. Johns block party should be banned, outlawed, erased, eliminated, killed---just like the young men who were shot to death on Saturday night in cold blood. I am so sick of hearing people say, "The shooters didn't even live in the neighborhood. Why did people bring guns? It's time to stop the violence." I am so sick of the tired old rhetoric and the same old excuses for ghetto violence. Any fool could see that loud music, alcohol, marijuana, large group of inebriated individuals, zero police presence, hot weather, and high levels of testosterone on a block with a pre-existing bad reputation was a recipe for disaster. If there was "block party" on St. Johns Place this weekend, I missed. What I saw instead an alcohol-fueled, profanity laced day of debauchery with a few bbq grills, hotdogs, and basketball courts set up for good measure. The permit for this so-called block party is no longer a permit for "the kids," but instead a license for public intoxication, debauchery, muckracking, public urination, and now murder. The city gave the organizers of this "day for kids" a permit to kill---they aided and abetted the creation of an environment that allowed two men (regardless of their backgrounds) to be murdered under the cover of darkness.

While the city prepares next years permit, the organizers of this event are somewhere washing blood from their charcoal-stained hands, waxing poetic about how hard they worked to have a party for "the kids." If trashing our block with litter, charcoal, chicken bones, plastic bags, water bottles, plastic cups, and dried piss is their idea of a block party, than I say they can take their party and shove it! Yes, this about race, this about class, this is about chicken bones in the street, and people who think having a party steeped in alcohol, marijuana, street brawling, and a sprinkle of misogyny is acceptable behavior. I saw intoxicated men walking aimlessly up and down the block. I saw a mother allowing her little boy piss on the side of someone's silver honda accord. I witnessed little girls doing the "stanky leg," and I heard a DJ scream, "If you make $30,000 dollars or more, put your hands up!!!" I saw grown people walking up and down the street with plastic cups filled with Hennessy. And yes, I saw little kids riding bicycles and scooters up and down the street. What great role models we, as black people, have become. Is this what summer fun has come to?

Do you really want to know why the police weren't there?? Well, the answer is simple. They didn't give a damn about the people partying on this one stretch of land. If Underhill avenue becomes UnderKILL ave, then so be it! If a murder (or two) occurs within the perimeter, then so be it! If fools wanna act like they're in Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Bagdad, or Desert Storm, then have at it! Isn't the world a better place with one less black man standing on the corner anyway? That's their thinking, ya'll, not mine. If we continue to act like niggaz, then they'll keep treating us like nigg**...If the nigg** want to smoke weed, play profanity laced- music, and act like animals, and then kill each other, then who are they to stop us??? Just as long we keep killing ourselves and leave the good white folks alone, then that's alright with them. And before you go getting upset about me using the word nigg**, remember this---nigg** isn't about skin color---it's a state of mind.

R.I.P to the two young men who are no longer with us.

If...… And I do mean "IF" the city grants Mike Jones another block party
permit next year, I hope it's only from the hours of 9 am to 6 p.m. That if
there's music, that the sound levels can be kept to a frequency that doesn't
shatter ear drums. I also hope he gets police or gets people to police themselves from drinking liquor and doing drugs. It's a party for the kids.
Not punks. I also would hope as President of the block he would hold a neighborhood meeting to have people talk about what could be done to make next year fun and more importantly safer for all. Do this and you will earn the respect of everyone that lives on the block.

SterlingGuy wrote: i just read the MYFOXNY.COM report. it doesn't make sense -- the shooting was washington at sterling (right in front of tom's) and it was a taxi cab, not a chevy caprice. i am wondering: were there separate shootings yesterday?

Did you ever figure this out? The taxi doesn't work into any of the reports about the St Johns/Washington shooting.

When's the next precinct meeting? I think we should all show up...

Subject: response from Letitia James

I want to encourage ALL of you to get in touch with Councilwoman James. I wrote her late last night about what happened Saturday night and had a reply in my in-box early this morning. I also wrote Senator Adams and hope to here from him soon. Here is her email address:

[email protected]

I've posted her response below. (I will write her back because her email raises many questions, namely, did the organizers have a permit for the block party and/or sound system(s) this year? And why isn't she aware of the St Johns Block association if they are the ones who would have applied for the permit?):

"Thank you for writing. Pleased be assured that a sound permit will not be issued for this block for any time to come. It was because of the events that transpired Saturday that a permit had not been issued for two years. I do not know whether the police were aware of the advertisement on myspace. I certainly was not, and received notice that it was a children's event. I was not planning to have a community meeting regarding these events since the investigation is still ongoing. Upon completion of investigation, I would be willing to meet with block association, if one exists. I visited the block yesterday and it appears that the victims were not from the neighborhood. That is the extent of my information. If block association is interested in follow up meeting, please let me know. Letitia James"

Between the block party I saw on Saturday on Park Place (low-key vibe, kids running around, stoop sales, etc.) and the one I saw on St. Johns there were two vibes happening. I think that there's a huge difference between a block party that's advertised via flyers on lamposts, and one that's advertised by a Facebook page as "The Battle of the DJs"

NCGal, RBG, and MarkNYC put it well. I don't know anything about the organizer of the St. Johns party, but he seems to attract a crowd that causes trouble (to put it mildly). The St. John's party is not the type of party that I want to have in my neighborhood.

I too can't help noting the differences between the party on my block (Park Place) and the St. Johns party - I missed it this year but I've been in the past.

A lot of has to do, of course, with density: StJ has a lot more people living in its apartment buildings, than Park Place has in its brownstones. So the crowds are bigger right off the bat.

But there is, as many posters have remarked, no reason a good community block party has to go past dark. There is no reason for djs and a sound system when you want to promote neighbors chatting with each other (even our party's one guy with a stereo was at times too loud!). There is no good reason to have a lot of alcohol around if the party is about the kids.

I've met Mike Jones, talked with him about community issues, and I believe he has his heart in the right place when it comes to wanting his block to be a nice place to live. But he also wants to throw a great party of a certain kind: exactly the kind RBG described. Those two goals are not really compatible. As long as the block association on StJ is a one-man show, that's what you're going to get.

My advice to StJ residents: get involved. Get a real block association together with as diverse a group of people as possible - preferrably one person from every building on your block, and equal parts old timers and newbies. That way, whenever your block is able to throw a party again, it will be one that the majority of your residents endorse and plan and enjoy, not a raucous free-for-all foisted on you by a small clique that ends poorly.

ex_spectator wrote: I saw one dead man in the middle of washington ave behind a taxi. the police blocked the sidewalk after that.

I got in really late Saturday, they had already taken the injured away by then but I did see a minivan Taxi in the middle of the block and the cop blocking off Washington Ave did mention a number shots being fired all over the block between St Johns and Sterling.

Following up on 'arches' question, 'ex_spectator' and 'SterlingGuy' both mentioned a shooting by a taxi - I wonder why the official reports just talk about the two dead in the car? Are they trying to play it down because, like someone said, it's an election year?

Maybe someone put the victims in the taxi after they were shot...in attempts to get them to a hospital. Taxi driver might have seen ambulances on the way and stopped to let EMT take over. That's the only scenario I can think of.

in response to me ever figuring out the taxi cab thing: no. and in direct response to RBG, yes, the taxi was parked in front of the pizza place and i also heard three people were being removed from the cab and/or street. i think maybe the cab was abandoned after the driver heard the shooting and it only looked like it was the car in question... but i don't know. whatever the case, it was awful, and i am not surprised if it all remains a bit confusing forever.

Subject: Be Mindful

First condolescences to the family. I work at the 77pct.
There were only 2 shots there were fireworks 2 min prior to the actual shots. The event was over 2 and half to 3 hours prior. M Jones also works with the precint and all of the council members in the neighborhood. The permit was issued because the last 4 events had No incidents at all. Clean up should have been that night but they all was the next day.

Myself, Mr. Jones council members and the head captain would love to have a meeting with the block and the neighborhood.

Blaming, pointing fingers and being judgemental will not solve anything for this tragedy. There was a notification for volunteers did anybody on this board attempt to sign up? Negative comments need not apply we will get no where fast.

This doesn't add up. we're not looking for "negative comments" - just
a search for the truth so this tragedy doesn't happen again. Perhaps you can help.

"There were only 2 shots there were fireworks 2 min prior to the actual shots"

Setting off fireworks in a densely packed crowd of people is dangergous and unlawful. Who was responsible for the fireworks? Was it merely a coincidence that two young men were murdered "2 min" after the fireworks?

"The event was over 2 and half to 3 hours prior"

We walked by around 830 pm and there were three DJs and thousands of people buying and selling alcohol. It was the biggest crowd we've seen in the neighborhood in many years. It looked like the party was just kicking into high gear. In fact, a hour after the murders, a DJ near Washington Avenue carried on as if nothing had happened.

The "2 and half to 3 hours prior" timeline was repeated several times in the media. It's simply untrue.

"M Jones also works with the precint and all of the council members in the neighborhood. The permit was issued because the last 4 events had No incidents at all."

According to Councilperson James (see her email above), a permit was denied because of previous incidents and law enforcement problems
on the block. As she noted, a permit was eventually issued for a children's event; she received an invitation but was unable to attend. A
permit was NOT isssued for a block party of the scope and size we saw on
Saturday night (much less a music competition advertised on the internet). In other words, the permit was granted under false pretenses.

"I work at the 77pct"

Councilperson James suggests that she didn't "work" with M Jones on this
event and that the NYPD was unaware that the party would attract thousands of people to the block. Who was responsible
for granting the permit? Were the police misled about the party and
unprepared for what happened on Saturday night? Who did M Jones actually work with at the 77th precinct?