My dog is territorial -- I really need some advice

mr. met · November 2009

I have a female pit bull mix, almost 3 years old. She is a great dog, loves people, well-trained (except for what I'm about to write about).

My girlfriend has a 5 year old female pit bull mix. In general, they are best friends. They play and romp with each other and there is no problem there. The problem arises when they are very close together around a person (myself, girlfriend, roommates, etc.). My dog is very territorial about people. If one or both of them is getting attention and they are next to each other, my dog attacks my girlfriend's dog (and I mean ATTACKS; it has gotten ugly on several occasions). For example, a few nights ago my roommate was petting my girlfriend's dog and my dog went over next to her and just started going at her. It's as if she is trying to show that she's the boss and that she decides who gets attention from people and when. The only thing I can do is try to see when my dog is getting agitated and try to intervene before anything happens, but this is not fool-proof. I hired a trainer about 6 months ago and she helped with a lot of the other issues my dog had, but this problem won't go away (and I can't afford to keep making appointments with the trainer). Yesterday I ordered a plastic basket muzzle for my dog to wear whenever she is around my gf's dog in an apartment. It's come to that. I just can't risk it anymore, and I need to be able to relax knowing that the gf's dog won't get hurt.

Just to be clear, this is just a dog-dog issue, and only in this specific situation. If my dog sees my gf's dog getting attention, it bothers her and she immediately wants to go over and break it up. I have no idea what to do. It's hard to create situations for training because there is so much at stake (i.e., I can't make them fight and then break it up). I feel better knowing that the muzzle is coming and that both dogs will now be safe, but does anyone have experience with this? Is my best bet just to prevent harm with the muzzle?

ANY advice or input or experience others have had with this would be very appreciated.

tsarina · November 2009

Geez, I thought the girl dogs were smarter than the boys!. I got two knuckleheads that are the same way. My trainer says that after an attack you have to make your dog submit and "lord over him" to let him know who the boss is.
I finally wouldn't let my two guys touch each other anymore or even be in the same room. (How fun is that?) but three strikes yer out and I got tired of the blood and stupidity. The muzzle is good insurance. My boy had it on at a picnic in the backyard and he used it to plow into his hated neighbor. But butting is better than biting. Good luck. They are just like jealous little kids those dogs. (not all of them)

opossumqueen · November 2009

Others might laugh but I caught an episode of one of the dog training shows recently and I think it covered this. I think it was the one with the lady on Animal Planet, something like "Me or the Dog". You can probably find it online. I may look later and see if I can find it. At least that would be a start.

Kudos to you for at least getting the muzzle for now--very responsible.

opossumqueen · November 2009

In case you can't find that, I'll try to recall what the gist of her method was.

The attacking dog was made to sit and stay (I think they used a gate to start) where it can see but not get to the other dog as the other dog gets attention and slowly moved closer. Before moving closer, the dog must remain calm about what's going on. I would probably try having the dog look away from the other dog and at you (while the other dog is getting attention). If the dog looks to you, it gets a treat. Eventually, she may associate the other dog getting attention with treats and good things. This is over-simplified but if you find something like this in a book or online, I think it's a good idea.

mr. met · December 2009

"It's Me or the Dog." that lady is pretty good.

your desensitization method sounds smart and it makes sense. i think i'll give that a try.

also, the "lord over him" advice that you gave, tsarina, sounds like a "Dog Whisperer" technique. now that my dog will have a muzzle, i won't get so anxious if/when she attacks and i'll try to do that.

thanks for the responses. this is really stressful and causes a lot of problems.

anastasia beaverhausen · December 2009

My 2 cents (even if I'm not a BKres anymore...)

Two females will almost always fight. They're establishing pack order. Sounds like your dog is the more aggressive of the two. Now...you're not gonna like the next bit:

Treat her better. Give her more attention. Make her the priority. Once she thinks she's your favorite, she will most likely give up trying to push the issue. If you're petting your GF's dog and your dog butts her head in, start petting her.

That being said, start practicing the Nothing-In-Life-Is-Free technique so that she realizes that while she's Queen Dog of Dog Mountain, YOU (and your GF) are ultimately her master.

Seriously, google that shit.

mr. met · December 2009

hmmm, anastasia. 2 problems with what you suggest.

1. i DO give her so much attention -- a lot more than my girlfriend's dog.
2. by petting her when she butts in, i will be positively reinforcing bad behavior.

that said, i'm curious about where you read that. can you give me a link?

opossumqueen · December 2009

I've been using the "if you remain calm and look at me even though you see that other dog, you get a treat" method to deal with my dog's recent new behavior of growling/snarling at dogs on the sidewalk and it's gone very well.

He started it in response to a neighbor's dog that gives very dominant, I'm ready to rumble signals all the time.

Good luck. I can imagine that this is all kind of stress (worried about the dogs getting hurt, worried about stressing the relationship with your gf, etc.) I think dogs who have owners willing to work on these things are lucky.

brooklynboyyee · December 2009

you must assert dominance. YOU are the pack leader. Do not address the dog until it is passive submissive.

stooplady · December 2009

I hesitate to say this but...have you ever read the history of the how and why pitt bulls were bred? They were NOT bred to be anything other than attack dogs, specifically toward each other. I am a DOG lover but will never own a Pitt Bull or any dog that has in it a Pitt Bull "mix." I mean it, I love dogs, but not this breed.

It is like owning a pet panther or tiger or chimp...they were not meant to be with us no matter how much we love them...or they "love" us.

Plus, as the owner of a wonderful pet, this must be heart breaking. However...think of that "just one time" when someone does reach out and your dog does do something harmful. You may have to decide to give one of your pets away...this is a great test of love for each other vs. love for your wonderful, but scary pet.

salix · December 2009

Being pack leader is NOT the same as forcing the dog to be submissive! (And how can you not "address" the dog until it is passive submissive - whatever that is.)
The problem with the two dogs is a serious one & has no simple (minded) solution. There is an excellent aggressive dog list; you can probably find a link on the FIDO site. Fighting is NOT inevitable with 2 females, but it is much more common with the "pit" breeds. The practice of rewarding calmness and reinforcing attention to YOU is a good start. Another angle would be to give her brain more to do, that is training for specific things - agility, tracking, obedience competition, scent work, therapy training. Engage the brain; a thinking dog is a tired dog & a tired dog is a good dog. O:)

salix · December 2009

"I hesitate to say this but...have you ever read the history of the how and why pitt bulls were bred? They were NOT bred to be anything other than attack dogs, specifically toward each other. I am a DOG lover but will never own a Pitt Bull or any dog that has in it a Pitt Bull "mix." I mean it, I love dogs, but not this breed.

It is like owning a pet panther or tiger or chimp...they were not meant to be with us no matter how much we love them...or they "love" us. "

Baloney! The pit types, especially in the US, were developed as "catch dogs" in the South. They were used to catch & hold the feral hogs and cattle that ran in the rough, non-agricultural parts of the region. The fighting grew out of contests to see whose dogs could "hold" more or longer. They are not a pack dog and are not terribly good in groups, but the same can be said - in general - of Akitas and other guardian breeds as well.

The pit types are domestic dogs, not non-domesticates like tigers or chimps. They are in fact extremely biddable (fancy dog-word for trainable). They are very good guardians (the Stafforshire Terrier was called the Nursemaid Dog in the 19th century because it was so good with children), and have a great "work ethic" (anthropomorphizing a bit here). I know some customs officers that love them because they are so eager to please. That is also why they can so easily be trained to be harmful by some idiots.

Ban the deed, not the breed.

rezist · December 2009

Salix here are a few links that might enlighten you regarding your post about "pitt bulls" and breeding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_Bull

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molosser

toadette · December 2009

I think what AB means by the "nothing in life is free" method is basically just making your dog have to always "earn" everything she is given. e.g., no food unless she sits nicely for it, waits to be told she can eat it, etc. No treats unless she does a trick or obeys some sort of command first, no affection unless you initiate it and it should be a reward for something, etc. It may sound harsh to some but it really isn't like that - it can be as simple as just asking for a down/stay before showering the pup with scratches and tummy rubs. Basically serves as a reminder that you're in charge and all the good stuff she gets comes from you and only when she's behaving.

Does this only happen inside? Perhaps there is also some territoriality at play along with being possessive of human attention?

mr. met · December 2009

I hesitate to say this but...have you ever read the history of the how and why pitt bulls were bred? They were NOT bred to be anything other than attack dogs, specifically toward each other. I am a DOG lover but will never own a Pitt Bull or any dog that has in it a Pitt Bull "mix." I mean it, I love dogs, but not this breed.

It is like owning a pet panther or tiger or chimp...they were not meant to be with us no matter how much we love them...or they "love" us.

Plus, as the owner of a wonderful pet, this must be heart breaking. However...think of that "just one time" when someone does reach out and your dog does do something harmful. You may have to decide to give one of your pets away...this is a great test of love for each other vs. love for your wonderful, but scary pet.

you are ignorant. sorry, no other way to put it.

pit bulls can be dog-aggressive, and so can many other breeds. regarding human aggression, pit bulls were actually bred so that an owner could pick up the dog in the middle of the fight and not be harmed. they are not aggressive toward people at all. if you see a pit bull that is aggressive toward people, that is the owner or breeder's fault, not the dog's.

mr. met · December 2009

I think what AB means by the "nothing in life is free" method is basically just making your dog have to always "earn" everything she is given

i definitely practice this.

Does this only happen inside? Perhaps there is also some territoriality at play along with being possessive of human attention?

yes, only inside. but the same situations don't really occur outside, so it probably could happen there too.

mr. met · December 2009

It is like owning a pet panther or tiger or chimp...they were not meant to be with us no matter how much we love them...or they "love" us.

just want to go back to this gem. why is "love" in quotes? because a pit bull type dog is not genuinely capable of loving people?

do some reading.

anastasia beaverhausen · December 2009

Argh - the ol' pit bull problem. But anyway - are they both leashed? I've witnessed dogs in the park with wicked leash aggression. They will attack dogs while they're on their leash. Or attack while leashed. I'd have to do some research on a link to that type of behavior. My wussy cries and piddles when a poodle won't be his friend.

homeowner · December 2009

I remember seeing a Dog Whisperer episode on a large dog with dog aggression issues towards a neighbors pet. He was able to break habit, but I don't remember the details. You should look on his website to see if you can track down the old episode.

caseopele · December 2009

StoopLady, you don't know what you're talking about. I suggest you learn more about pitbulls, starting with the American Temperament Test Society.

http://atts.org/

modsquad · December 2009

Does anybody disagree though, that a territorial pitbull is much more dangerous than a greedy chihuahua? Arguing against having pitbulls as pets is not the point. Some of my best friends are pitbulls and I'm glad they have my back But lets face it, how can I say this, having an under trained pitbull is kind of unsettling. I think OP should consider maxing his remaining Visa and getting some serious professional help.

Belgians training Belgians.
Lets hope OP doesn't get a new GF with a toy poodle.

mr. met · December 2009

my mother actually has a maltese and a maltapoo and they all get along fine.

I think OP should consider maxing his remaining Visa and getting some serious professional help.

like i said, not an option. the dogs will no longer be in danger now that i'll have a muzzle -- i was just asking for tips/experiences/etc.

dakotas way · December 2009

Subject: pit bulls

Are your dogs spayed? As a kid my brother's dog beat the snot out of my wimpy and lovely dog every time his dog came into heat. It got to be that my dog ended up with stitches and ripped ears on a regular basis until I insisted he fix his dog.

Taking the hormones out of the picture may help to diffuse the situation slightly. Besides, I'm sure you're not going to breed her (especially with all the wonderful dogs in shelters that need homes.)

We have a 90 lb German Shepherd and 45 lb Dutch Shepherd mix that are the very best of friends. But every now and again, Dakota, the German Shepherd will muscle Sage (the other dog) out of the way when Sage is getting attention. That's when we have Dakota go lay down and continue the attention to Sage. Afterwards, we'll call in Dakota to pet as a reward for listening and controlling herself.

It truly is a matter of having to be the pack leader and most importantly , reading your animals behavior to be proactive. There is always a tell as to what's going on in a dog's mind. As the owner/trainer you have to watch for the signs that something is going to occur. Possibly a dropping of your dog's tail and stiffening of her neck before she pounces on the other dog. That's when you step in to diffuse the situation and insist on her attention to you, not the other dog. No yelling, as that creates a more excitable environment. A firm voice command will be best. Put her through few a paces of training to get her focus back on you, not her wish to overcome the other dog in the room. Then reward her with positive attention.

And you never hit the dog. Counterproductive and feeds the angry aggression that your dog already has going (not that you did that at all.)

Good luck

wildflower · December 2009

Please watch Cesar Millan on National Geographic Channel.
You'll learn about the breed, what it needs, why it's acting the way it does
and how to correct the behavior.

Without realizing it, you are contributing to the behavior -

Often the dog needs a lot of exercise to help it to use up nervous energy
and to know that YOU are in control so that he can relax.

Cesar Millan also has a website. find it, use it and you and your dog will live happily ever after.

Best to you!

MOD · December 2009

Cesar Millan has also been sued by pet owners for injuring their dogs. Just sayin' (though the show is fun to watch)

opossumqueen · December 2009

Mamacita wrote: Cesar Millan has also been sued by pet owners for injuring their dogs. Just sayin' (though the show is fun to watch)

I heard through the grapevine (not too far removed from the source) that he often uses E collars for tough aggression cases but they don't show that part on tv. It happens in that "10 minutes elapsed" segment according to my sources.

I overall agree with Milan's mantra, but every dog is different and it's hard to give good advice or understand what Mr. Met is dealing with without witnessing it ourselves.

Mr. Met, I remembered that this almost same thing happens with my parents' dogs. Large alpha female with almost unreadable body-language and goofy smaller male who just wants to play and be pet. If you're petting her and he comes anywhere near, she lunges for him. No bloody fights, partially b/c he knows she can kick his ass. When I visit, I what I suggested which is to make her sit and wait CALMLY while he gets pet in order for her to get petting and whatever she wants (walk in the woods, etc.).

Works pretty well but my folks won't do it. My dad is old school and thinks the dogs should just work everything out on there own, which has led to her separating the shoulders of two dogs at least once. (She runs her 100lbs and slams the other dog against a tree when she gets annoyed).

Keep us posted.

My dog is territorial -- I really need some advice

Comments

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories