Cats and Crystals

zachl · December 2009

Some of you already know that my boy Jackson had a bout with crystals 2 months ago.

Signs were: peeing outside of the box, obsessive grooming of and growling at his penis and straining to pee.

Took him to the vet and had him tested. They said it was crystals. He was on a muscle relaxer (to make peeing easier) and valium (one for me, one for him) and things were better for a few weeks.They also pressed on his bladder until he peed and I saw the crystals come out while he screeched his head off (NOT something I recommend ever being in the room for).

Three weeks ago he started growling at his penis again. I ran him back down to the vet and went through tests again and they said all of his tests came back normal. No crystals. No infection. No blood in his urine.

I wasn't quite convinced he was ok, but the vet assured me that he seemed to be.

Well, he's at it again. Straining to pee. Sat in the box for 5 minutes and limped out walking all funny. Grooming and growling again.

I'm going to call the vet again tomorrow, but am worried and frustrated.

Anybody have any experience with this (I know Sweet Tea and Mamacita have been through similar things)

MOD · December 2009

Try a second opinion? I went to PS Vet on 413 5th ave.
El Gato Loco seems cured now

brooklynista · December 2009

^ I might get a second opinion. Since I actually *saw* the crystals, I believe the diagnosis. I just don't believe the second set of tests that say he was over them.

I will likely push for more prescription food at a minimum and ask a ton of questions.

sweet tea · December 2009

it's not something he'll "get over," and they shouldn't have implied that it was. his body chemistry will keeping making him form crystals. in our case, changes in diet (low magnesium wet food plus a pH-changing powder we give him every night) have worked to counteract the problem, but if we stopped those things, it would happen again. (in fact, it did recur when we lowered the amount of powder.) when he had the second incident, the vet also said that he could get thrown off by drinking less than usual or messing with his pee schedule or any number of other factors.

at any rate, just because he didn't have crystals three weeks ago doesn't mean he can't have formed them now. and i'm sure they hurt like murder.

jojoppw · December 2009

thanks, sweet tea. Do you know what the pH powder is?

Also, which low magnesium wet food does he like? I've been doing that anyway, along with a urinary tract dry food (this was just Purina One after he finished his prescription dry)

sweet tea · December 2009

it's this stuff: http://www.amazon.com/Wysong-Biotic-Ph/dp/B0006MU976

we shake some on his dinner every night. he loves it, as it's mostly catnip and "beef powder."

as for food, we use any wet food that has .003% or less magnesium. we fed them Iams for a while, switched to wellness after that whole poisoning freakout, and now feed them the brand the coop sells. (food changes also dictated by the other cat, who stopped eating when we first changed their food and introduced us to the wonderful world of hepatic lipidosis, but that's another story. moral: don't let your fat cats stop eating.)

leifriddell · December 2009

^thanks. Jackson is a junkie, so if it has catnip in it and he thinks it's some sort of treat, he will go for it.

sweet tea · December 2009

oh, and we don't do dry food anymore at all because the vet said we needed to make sure he was getting enough water, so that his urine is relatively dilute. if jackson is a big water-drinker, this might not matter. our cats don't seem to drink much, so the (stinky, expensive) wet food helps them not get dehydrated.

jigmania · December 2009

The dry food is urinary tract dry food, so I am hoping that's ok.

Jackson is a HUGE water drinker, especially if it's cold and comes from the Brita filter in the fridge (yes, he's spoiled, as if *that's* a surprise).

Stella let him sleep in her bed last night. I am very impressed! Of course, she has also decided she needs to use his litter box, so now it's hard to tell who is doing what in there. Sigh.

homeowner · December 2009

Flexichick wrote:
Jackson is a HUGE water drinker, especially if it's cold and comes from the Brita filter in the fridge (yes, he's spoiled, as if *that's* a surprise).

Oh thank God! I thought my two were the only cats spoiled enough to demand ice cold water straight out of the fridge from the Brita (and btw, you haven't gotten the stink eye until you've given the cat cold tap water instead).

One suggestion that I have to get more water to Jackson is to get a Drinkwell. It requires a little bit of work on your part (I change water every couple of days as the guys manage to get bits of cat food, hair, and other detrius in there regularly) but it does provide a good source of filtered, running water. My vet suggested we get one when the boys were wee kitties so they would have a water source when we were away from home.

midas · December 2009

^thanks, Homeowner. I'm not working right now, so I am here to serve Jackson his cold water on a regular basis. If I do end up spending a lot of time out of the house, I'll look into one of those things.

brokechick · December 2009

the type of food and pH that he requires will depend on the type of crystals that he was making--did the vet tell you if they were struvite or calcium oxalate? they require different approaches. the wrong food can actually make the problem worse by shifting the pH in the wrong direction. there is a food made by waltham royal canin called SO that can be used for either type of crystal, and i think it's the only one that's appropriate for both. my mom's cat started making calcium crystals with no infection or secondary issue, and they determined that it was a metabolic issue that would cause recurrent obstructions. we switched him to SO canned and dry, and there were no more problems. he was a picky eater, too, and he always ate it, so it must be tasty.

lovefreshair · December 2009

Jackson was on the Royal Canin SO. He (and Stella) loved the dry food, but had no interest in the wet food. Thankfully, PPAC gave me a refund because it's expensive.

Waiting on a call back from the vet and have my list of questions in hand.

Thanks, everybody!

effedparkslope · December 2009

Spoke with vet. Jackson is going back in tomorrow. His crystals were struvite. Am going to bring a description of the pH powder with me to see what they say and am also going to pick up more Royal Canin SO dry food.

Damn cat is costing my unemployed ass a fortune, but I love him to pieces

domino · December 2009

After our little boy Tony Soprano (had a few missing teeth so looked like he was snarling AND polyps so sounded like a every breath was a rasp) started developing crystals we fed him the prescription food for a while. We have since switched to a wet food which took him a bit to get used to but a sprinkling of catnip convinced him this was G-O-O-D.

We also keep trying get him to drink more water - which is a never ending strategy game (one day we use tuna cans that haven't been rinsed, other days we put in a few drops of NATURAL chicken broth, etc.). He refused to go near the water tower we got him even though the vet said this was the best option. His favorite water? The icky curbside puddles!!!! Go figure.

marty mcfly · December 2009

^ ha. Silly Tony Soprano (love his name)

brokechick · December 2009

you have more food options if it's struvite, he shouldn't have to stay on the SO (which is one of the priciest urinary rx foods). once he's clear, just make sure to choose something that lists a protein as the first ingredient rather than a grain, and stick to what sweet tea said about the magnesium content. DL-methionine is also a good ingredient to look for, it helps regulate ammonia formation in urine to keep it on the acidic side (what you want). unfortunately, you will probably have to get used to the idea of this being something you'll have to keep an eye on forever.

i hope jackson feels better soon, nobody should ever have to growl at his own peepee.

monzagorilla · December 2009

brokechick wrote:

i hope jackson feels better soon, nobody should ever have to growl at his own peepee.

Exactly. My baby boo.

I asked the vet about the powder, but he didn't seem to have an opinion on it. I'll probably do it anyway. I don't think it could hurt.

domino · December 2009

How is Jackson today?

I forgot to ask yesterday but did you switch him to a WET food since the initial episode? Since kittehs never really ate dry food in the wild, they do much better with wet. They do not take in enough water on a dry diet and so their systems do not fully flush. Once we stopped giving Tony the dry food, even the moist the vet recommended was crap, he improved. We tried Wellness, Wellness Core, Natural Balance and all were good - but expensive. We switched to Triumph and Fancy Feast which he seems to have done just as well on.

Stop feeding ALL dry foods (even treats) and switch to a wet food diet. Either high quality canned, or a raw diet. You can learn about raw food at www.catinfo.org. You might have to do a little reading on the canned to get the right mineral ratios (as all have said above, high protein, low grain and magnesium). One of my friends believes in only RAW and she suggested using Glucosomine and Chrondriton for preventing inflammation in the urethra. She also recommended dry cranberry extract (just a pinch) on the wet food. I have not tried either.

mcstachyra · December 2009

He's still a mess today. Thanks for asking.

He just spent a few minutes in his box straining and nothing came out. Then he was growling. We're going to the vet this afternoon.

Stella and Jackson split a can of wet food twice a day. I used to give them Fancy Feast, but have upgraded to better quality/low magnesium stuff since his first bout with crystals.

They also have dry food out all day. They had Royal Canin SO for a while, then Health Choice Vet Extension (high quality but not meant for UT problems) on one dish and Purina UT dry food on the other (when I ran out of the SO).

I'm going to pick up more SO later today.

domino · December 2009

Try removing the dry food TOTALLY. I am sure that they will be more than happy to give up the dry.

Think of your little boy as a mini tiger. You don't see too many tigers on the Serengeti chowing down on any dry herbs and grains. They are carnivores and eat their meat bloody - - well, you get the picture. Not much water out there so their little bodies are bred to have a low thirst trigger as well.

Try switching the kitty litter too. Get yourself a bag of scientific litter so you can keep track of Jackson's PH levels at home. You won’t be able to detect the crystals at home that cause blockages, but if the ph was off you could monitor his "output" much better.

soccerfunforkids · December 2009

^ I never heard of "scientific litter". Do you have a brand name?

jvindyex33 · December 2009

it is something like this?

http://www.amazon.com/Pet-Ecology-Scientific-Professional-Litter/dp/B000WFKMLK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1260466217&sr=8-1

domino · December 2009

The one we used was called Perfect Litter (used to be called Scientific Professional). In honor of Jackson and all the other little kittehs I love, I have changed my avatar

domino · December 2009

BTW - Perfect litter is actually better for everyone - flushable, use less (2 lb = 14 lbs of standard litter), dust free and bio-degradable. I used to have it shipped!

brokechick · December 2009

Domino wrote: Try removing the dry food TOTALLY. I am sure that they will be more than happy to give up the dry.

Think of your little boy as a mini tiger. You don't see too many tigers on the Serengeti chowing down on any dry herbs and grains.

but you do see them gnawing on deer or boar bones. anyway, a housecat is not a tiger, or even a mini tiger. the problem with abandoning dry food entirely is that it sets your kitteh up for dental problems--that little bit of abrasion from the kibble makes a big difference in keeping tartar/plaque production in check. if jackson were older, it would matter less. i've fed urinary kitties dry food free-feed and wet food once or twice a day and they've been o.k. if you go all wet, give him some crunchy treats.

domino · December 2009

Good point brokechick! Kitteh teeth and gums need to be attended to as well but until the pee-pee problem is resolved, might be better to keep to wet.

We do not have the same issues - we adopted Tony two years ago at the age of 11-12 and he was already missing some teeth due to prior problems. We try to give him some crunchy treats once in a while but he struggles with them.

stacey · December 2009

Flex - do you feed them fish flavored foods? I was told that can cause the crystals/UTI. I also think it was the stress of missing his mommy that brought on the recurrence. Give him kitty kisses for me

Domino wrote: We also keep trying get him to drink more water - which is a never ending strategy game (one day we use tuna cans that haven't been rinsed, other days we put in a few drops of NATURAL chicken broth, etc.). He refused to go near the water tower we got him even though the vet said this was the best option. His favorite water? The icky curbside puddles!!!! Go figure.

LOL my Rocky and Sonic will not drink from anything except a red Solo cup or straight from the faucet.

catgirl · December 2009

I love the new avatar, Domino!

Jackson and Stella both love cleaning their teeth on grass and plants outside, but they don't get to do that as much in the winter.

My poor boo is crying like crazy. He's on valium and muscle relaxer and wobbly.

eve · December 2009

I'm back. He's not. He has to stay overnight :-(

They squeezed his bladder and more crystals came out, along with a bunch of pee. They want to watch him overnight and then he goes back on the SO and they will try a new wet food.

Vet tech was super nice and remarked at how handsome he is and offered to give him lots of keeeeses tonight and tomorrow :-)

So, it's me and StinkyPuss by ourselves tonight.

MOD · December 2009

Ouch, poor baby. Let us know how he feels tomorrow when he's back home.

Cats and Crystals

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