Renting questions - Roommates
I'm moving into a 2BR next month and I plan to get a roommate. I've never had one before, so I'm really new to all of this. Five questions (sorry for so many!):
1. In general (not related to roommates), is there any difference in tenant/owner rights between a multiple-dwelling building (3+ units) and a two-family? This wil be the first two-family (and it's not owner-occupied) I've ever lived in, and I want to know specifically if the owner has any more rights than usual.
2. I am on the lease alone, and it seems I have a legal right to a roommate. Does my landlord have a right to request a credit check and financial information from whoever I select? I read on one site that the only thing I need to provide is their name. The management company is all "we need to get to know and approve of that person," but I don't think they have any right to since it's my lease and I am the liable one. I think a credit check for a share is a little overboard.
3. If I furnish the room, can I charge extra per month (and/or is it douchy to charge extra?), if so how much?
4. The rules seem to state that if there is one person on the lease, you can have one person room with you. What if you have two people? Is that against overcrowding rules?
5. Is it correct that my landlord cannot raise the rent for having roommates? (It says nothing about it in the lease.)
Thank you!! Looking forward to hearing back.
1. In general (not related to roommates), is there any difference in tenant/owner rights between a multiple-dwelling building (3+ units) and a two-family? This wil be the first two-family (and it's not owner-occupied) I've ever lived in, and I want to know specifically if the owner has any more rights than usual.
2. I am on the lease alone, and it seems I have a legal right to a roommate. Does my landlord have a right to request a credit check and financial information from whoever I select? I read on one site that the only thing I need to provide is their name. The management company is all "we need to get to know and approve of that person," but I don't think they have any right to since it's my lease and I am the liable one. I think a credit check for a share is a little overboard.
3. If I furnish the room, can I charge extra per month (and/or is it douchy to charge extra?), if so how much?
4. The rules seem to state that if there is one person on the lease, you can have one person room with you. What if you have two people? Is that against overcrowding rules?
5. Is it correct that my landlord cannot raise the rent for having roommates? (It says nothing about it in the lease.)
Thank you!! Looking forward to hearing back.
Comments
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You speak of rights normally associated with rent stabilization. Only under certain situations does a 3 plus unit building qualify, usually over 6 is needed. A 2 family house not anymore. Unless your lease says specifically you can have a room mate, no right exists.
If the right exists then I'm surprised the LL hasn't stated the conditions for allowing it. -
Thanks, Modsquad. It's really confusing about rights because there doesn't seem to be clear documentation of non-rent stabilized rights on the government websites. I am 100% behind following the rules, or lack thereof, as long as they are correct and being followed. I did reread my lease and it said under the Use category that only I and my family members may occupy my apartment and I may not sublease all or part of the apartment, and although obviously they will allow me to have a roommate, it is true that I don't have the right to have one, I guess.
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Depending on the terms of the lease (but it sounds like this from what you wrote), you will need the landlords permission to have a non-family roommate.
If he/she isn't added to the lease (i.e., you are *both* responsible to the *landlord* for the rent), you should make sure... and I repeat... make sure you have a written rental (sublease) agreement with your roommate. In addition to rent, make sure you include what else he/she is responsible for... e.g., 1/2 electricity bill, 1/2 cable bill. and so on.
Watch Judge Judy for 10 mins to see why you should have this in writing. -
tybur6 wrote:
No way a LL would add someone to a already consummated lease. That would double his efforts in case he has to chase you down for the rent.
If he/she isn't added to the lease (i.e., you are *both* responsible to the *landlord* for the rent), you should make sure... and I repeat... make sure you have a written rental (sublease) agreement with your roommate. In addition to rent, make sure you include what else he/she is responsible for... e.g., 1/2 electricity bill, 1/2 cable bill. and so on.
I highly recommend that you sign nothing with a room mate. That would only benefit the room mate. Keep it cash. It will be much easier to get rid of them in case you need to. It's a pretty expensive and time consuming event to legally evict someone which would be required if a sublease is in effect. Very debilitating for a lease holder to do so with the room mate in occupancy. [/i] -
Modsquad -- In terms of residency law, there is no difference in the eyes of the law between a verbal sublease and a written one. If you think you can just call the cops and say the person is trespassing simply because you don't have a written agreement, you're very wrong. They are a tenant... either of the landlord or of you. Regardless of the *form* of the agreement. Simple as that.
The benefits of a written agreement means you have SUBSTANCE to back up your agreement.
What if your roommate decides to start paying you $750 instead of $900 a month. Of course you have to cash the check because how else will you pay the rent. If you only have a verbal agreement, he can say in court: "We agreed to reduce the rent to $750, I don't know what she is talking about! See, she cashed my checks and this is the first time I've heard this complaint. We agreed my share of the rent would be lower because of [insert reason/lie]."
But if there is a written agreement, you can show that they were short $150 and still owe it to you... especially if the written agreement says, "Only a subsequent agreement in writing can change the terms of this agreement." Cashing a check doesn't constitute such an agreement.
Verbal agreements aren't any less of a contract... they are just miserable he said she said situations. -
I agree with tybur6. NYC housing laws are very pro-tenant. They have lots of rights, regardless of whether they have any sort of lease.
...Interestingly, a lot of these rights stem from domestic violence cases, wherein a partner would try to evict his/her mate.
At the time, the rights were created with the intention of protecting women who did not have as many financial resources and were at risk of abuse. The thought being that live-in partners -mostly women- were better off if a man could not threaten her with eviction. The laws have since "evolved" or "devolved", depending on ones perspective. -
Don't be naive. Why would you confess to a verbal contract if you want that person out? At that point what possible reason would there be to being "honest"? No doubt the room mate has done something terribly wrong to cause the need to get rid of them. The only way a verbal would be in effect is if both parties admit to the terms.
Verbal agreements aren't any less of a contract... they are just miserable he said she said situations.
The original lease written for the space would take priority , with no written contract for the sub the only written lease is the prepriatory one which gives you the right to the space not the room mate.That's what any judgment would have to be based on.A lease is a contract between a landlord and a tenant which contains the terms and conditions of the rental. It cannot be changed while it is in effect unless both parties agree. Leases for apartments which are not rent stabilized may be oral or written. However, to avoid disputes the parties may wish to enter into a written agreement. A party must sign the lease in order to be bound by its terms. An oral lease for more than one year cannot be legally enforced. General Obligations Law § 5-701.
The above pertains only to the prime tenant, not any subs or roomates who are not paying the rent directly. Also this is only under RS. There would be even less rights in the OP's situation. -
http://www.tenant.net/alerts/articles/roommates.html
"If you are the tenant of record and your roommate is not, and you would like your roommate to leave, and your roommate has been in the apartment for more than 30 days, and your roommate refuses to leave voluntarily, then, unfortunately, you have only one recourse -- a formal eviction proceeding."
....I've heard of people using these "rights" in all sorts of situations: HPD, NYCHA, private apartments/houses, etc. It doesn't seem to matter.
The roommate will just have to show they resided there, which is easy to do (testimony from neighbors, a prescription or a bill of almost any kinda will often do the trick).
Expensive headache results with or without a written agreement. ...note, your roommate (aka your tenant ...not the landlords) does not have to win in order to present you this massive headache. -
whynot_31 wrote:
That's why it should be cash only. There is absolutely no way a neighbor could testify or have knowledge that the place is the legal residence of the sub tenant. Having bills sent to an address is no proof of legal residence. You could of simply been doing a favor for someone down on their luck.
The roommate will just have to show they resided there, which is easy to do (testimony from neighbors, a prescription or a bill of almost any kinda will often do the trick).
legal residence ((law) the residence where you have your permanent home or principal establishment and to where, whenever you are absent, you intend to return
My point is to limit exposure. Keeping it cash and keeping it short term, no more than a year would prevent the kind of stalemate that often comes from a single person trying to get rid of a room mate. It's a given that denying the existence of the verbal agreement will be necessary at that point. It may come to a negotiation but you will have a lot more options then the estranged room mate. -
Cash Only!?!?!
I have never had a roommate where they paid their rent in cash... friggin' absurd. I guess if they're a bartender or something they'll have a pile of cash under their mattress.... but, then, modsquad, why wouldn't you just collect the rent yourself from the mattress?
Normal human beings pay rent with checks, not wads of cash. And normal people enter into formal contracts as a standard aspect of being an adult in mainstream society... not super secret roommate situations where you are prepared to call the cops to have them removed in a squad car. -
After being terribly burned by a roommate (who collected my money and then did not spend the money on rent, resulting in an eviction notice from my landlord) I will *never* pay money to a roommate again. I always insisted on writing the checks directly to the landlord/utility company, whatever. They'll take your money however they can get it.
i suggest doin this with your room-mate as well. This proves to your roommate that you're paying bills on time (as he/she will see a cashed check when bills/rent is paid) but it also keeps things relatively impersonal when it comes to money. I've had landlords since this and none of them ever had issue with accepting two+ checks from one apartment (even when the lease was only in my name.) -
I guess I am going to have to speak to my landlord about this. I know that I will do my best to find a trustworthy roommate because in addition to feeling like I click with them (I don't just want a roommate, I want a friend), my LL will require a credit check and all that. For me, I would love to have a month or two trial period to make sure both roommates are happy instead of them signing a lease right away. What if I hate her or she hates me? I would rather they leave in that case and I would be happy to let them out of the lease so long as I could find a new one to move in, but what if I hate them and they don't want to leave, ya know?
I think writing a check to the LL is a good idea, but all utilities are my responsibility and so there would need to be a check to them and one to me (probably in the arena of $120/month including cable/internet).
I'm less concerned with my relation with the roommate and more with my relationship with my landlord. I am very sensitive with relationships like this where someone has a lot of power over me and potentially my quality of life. I don't want them harrassing me (especially since the mgmt is 2 doors away) or trying to raise my rent or anything. I just want to be pleasant and happy and want to stay in this apartment long term (this is my 4th apartment since january 2007!!! I am so sick of moving!!) -
Better check this out. If you are the sole name on the lease than you are the Landlord. Good idea if YOU did the credit check, etc., and it is also a good idea to have the roommate pay the landlord directly. I would also ask for at least one month's security deposit (and keep it in an interest bearing savings account, preferably separate from your own). Asking for two month's security deposit might even work out better.
Also, are utilities included in the rent, etc. -
tybur6, I don't know what kind of insular life you lead but believe me there are people out there who deal in "cash" and not the kind you pick up off the bar with your genitalia.
the best source of room mates with cash are foreigners, in particular students, European, (especially Germans) and Asians of course. Both groups seem to understand the need to deal in cash without prejudice. -
Modsquad,
Funny... I've lived in 2 foreign countries for long periods of time and I didn't have any trouble opening a bank account and using those accounts to fulfill my financial obligations. (Of course it was a "bank draught" system and not checks. America is very old fashioned in this regard.)
I'm not sure why a foreign student would be comfortable with an all-cash situation. It just sounds shady. Nothing to do with a "insular life."
Unless they are in the country illegally (which is not the happy student you describe), there is NO reason for a foreign person to "understand the need to deal in cash." And the only reason they may do this supposedly "without prejudice" is because folks like you have convinced them this shady method of conducting yourself is the only way they can get a place to stay.
Cash-only is just shady. Not an example of what non-insular people do... it's an example of what shady people do.
Do you let these foreign students receive mail at the apartment? Or do they have to get a box at Mail Boxed, Etc?
P.S. Stoop lady is right. If you are subleasing -- YOU are the landlord. And even more reason to have a written contract. You can write a very simple contract that includes a sentence about a "trial period" or "probation period." -
Actually, I know of several folks here from abroad for a year or less that are not earning money here, just working on academic fellowships at museums and schools.
Without exception, they prefer to pay cash and not set up a bank account. New, local T-Mobile SIM card, yes. Bank account, no. They are not earning a salary and therefore have nothing to deposit. All they need is access to the cash they already have. They don't want to deal with the paperwork of getting a US bank account set up for just a year or less when their home bank + ATM works just fine.
And yes, they receive mail where they live.
On another note, I had a bank account at Credit Lyonnais in Paris for several years. It was a bit of a pain to set up in spite of already owning an apartment there, with various additional paperwork requirements thrown in because we weren't French nationals. (And the fees in general, sheesh...even a monthly fee for access to online banking. You know, when you're saving them paper and data entry staff resources?)
Anyhow, back to the point. Sure, cash-only can be shady or very risky in many cases, but can also be perfectly normal and appropriate in others. -
Jeffrey -- I hear ya... but the person *preferring* pay cash is wholly different than requiring someone to pay cash.... because of your own shady agenda. (i.e., the ability to say this person has never lived here).
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We had a sewer guy come a year or so ago to clean the line.
When we called to have someone come out the folks in the office said yeah, check is fine.
When the guy arrived and did the work, he told us it would be $x. I said fine, I'll get my checkbook, be right back.
He said no, that's cash only.
I said "Wha...? Your office said..."
He then said "okay, well $x is the cash only price. If you want to pay by check, it will be $x+y.
Now that was shaaaaaaaaaady. -
jeffrey wrote: We had a sewer guy come a year or so ago to clean the line.
We've seen a ton of this. We wanted to put it on the card, but that meant a higher price than quoted. Cash or check made out to a person (usually business owner/office manager) was the preferred method. And this was sometimes kind of bigger companies.
When we called to have someone come out the folks in the office said yeah, check is fine.
When the guy arrived and did the work, he told us it would be $x. I said fine, I'll get my checkbook, be right back.
He said no, that's cash only.
I said "Wha...? Your office said..."
He then said "okay, well $x is the cash only price. If you want to pay by check, it will be $x+y.
Now that was shaaaaaaaaaady. -
my tenants most of them have roommates and i have no problems with it and most of them aren't on the lease. I take checks from them. they seem don't have issues with it.
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armchair_warrior wrote: my tenants most of them have roommates and i have no problems with it and most of them aren't on the lease. I take checks from them. they seem don't have issues with it.
Armchair, have you ever had one of the "mere roommates" claim they weren't leaving at the end of the "actual tenants" lease?
...I've heard of cases where the housing court judge decided that landlord has to give the roommate a lease and/or has to create a seperate petition to evict the roommate on the basis that the landlord made them a legal tenant when they took their check. -
majority of people are pretty respectful of each other. one time many years back one of the roommates left the other roommate with not paying the electric for the whole year!!! thats when coned came and took the meters away.
I found out from the other roommate, but i never heard a update from her about what happened. I just knew that they gave my meter back and all is well. sob's from coned didnt even bother contacting me to ask me if anyone was living there lol.
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