. Reid my lips: the Downtown mosque
Mod note: this thread now includes the community center sub-discussion from this thread.
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It appears harry's a bit harried over obama stating it's ok to build a mosque near ground zero.
i wonder how long it will be before michelle starts wearing a burka, claiming it's a fashion statement and hires christo to design one for the statue of liberty.
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It appears harry's a bit harried over obama stating it's ok to build a mosque near ground zero.
i wonder how long it will be before michelle starts wearing a burka, claiming it's a fashion statement and hires christo to design one for the statue of liberty.
Comments
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Obama didn't even say it's ok. He walked it back with some bullshit non-committal answer about respecting freedom of religion but not commenting on this specific situation.
I think there are like 5 politicians in this whole damn country who are speaking on the side of freedom of religion and general sanity, and a few of them are even Republicans! (granted they're republicans who aren't running for office)
This whole "debate" makes me so sad for this country. I can't believe we even entertain the opinions of people who directly associate assimilated, moderate Islam with the psychopaths of 9/11.
That kind of simple-minded, binary thinking is ignorance beyond description. -
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it's been reported at fridays meeting with the muslim american group he told them that the mosque plan fits in with " our commitment to religious freedom"
religious freedom is not the issue here .
it's when advised where they planned to build it and he hadn't objected to the location , to me that means he's in agreement with the ground zero spot. -
Hamilton wrote: . " our commitment to religious freedom".
That is exactly what I want my President to say. This country was built on Freedom, our soldiers are fighting overseas for our freedom and way of life - to not allow that would be akin to how the soldiers were treated upon their return from Vietnam. -
It is meant to be a community center with avowed aims to build intercommunity relations. 2 other mosques are nearby. As well as a titty bar. No problem on any of it to me.
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a titty bar
thats convenient, a place where they can get stoned and then laid .
back home they'd get laid and would definitely be stoned . -
Hamilton wrote: it's when advised where they planned to build it and he hadn't objected to the location , to me that means he's in agreement with the ground zero spot.
Probably true - I just wish he took a more vocal public stance. It would help fight the stunning ignorance on the part of anti-downtown-mosques. -
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i'll mention that to my neighbor whose fireman husband was killed at the trade center, leaving her and her year old daughter devastated , i'm sure she and other family's who lost husbands ,wives, sons and daughters will then rethink their stunning ignorance and will ignore the insensitivity and indifference shown by sharif el gamal the developer of park 51, who said 'two blocks is a long way from ground zero" and give him their blessings. -
Hamilton wrote: .
I lost many people that day including 3 family members and numerous friends. Two of those friends were Muslim - do we belittle their memory by the hatred that is being shown to AMERICAN muslims?
i'll mention that to my neighbor whose fireman husband was killed at the trade center, leaving her and her year old daughter devastated , i'm sure she and other family's who lost husbands ,wives, sons and daughters will then rethink their stunning ignorance and will ignore the insensitivity and indifference shown by sharif el gamal the developer of park 51, who said 'two blocks is a long way from ground zero" and give him their blessings. -
Do we believe that the folks who are going to attend the community center and mosque somehow do not live and work in the area?
How is it a trophy?
....lots of Muslims work in the banks and other corporations in the area. For example, the NYC Subways administration bldg (located at 2 Broadway) has a huge population of Muslim engineers and electricians.
....why shouldn't "they" build a center that is convenient to where "they" work?
P.S. They = us. I work in health care, lots of Muslim folks here as well. -
Hamilton wrote: .
I'm sorry that people lost loved ones, it was an awful event, but we as a community, city, and nation can't dictate where various groups and religions are allowed to operate based on people's irrational fears and associations.
i'll mention that to my neighbor whose fireman husband was killed at the trade center, leaving her and her year old daughter devastated , i'm sure she and other family's who lost husbands ,wives, sons and daughters will then rethink their stunning ignorance and will ignore the insensitivity and indifference shown by sharif el gamal the developer of park 51, who said 'two blocks is a long way from ground zero" and give him their blessings.
Integrated, moderate, American Muslims who worked with the Bush Administration (!) to help bridge cultural gaps couldn't have less to do with Osama Bin Laden's murderers. It is very unfortunate that some families associate one with the other, but that's their own personal issue to deal with. -
stacey wrote: [quote=Hamilton].
I lost many people that day including 3 family members and numerous friends. Two of those friends were Muslim - do we belittle their memory by the hatred that is being shown to AMERICAN muslims?
i'll mention that to my neighbor whose fireman husband was killed at the trade center, leaving her and her year old daughter devastated , i'm sure she and other family's who lost husbands ,wives, sons and daughters will then rethink their stunning ignorance and will ignore the insensitivity and indifference shown by sharif el gamal the developer of park 51, who said 'two blocks is a long way from ground zero" and give him their blessings.
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what hatred?
is asking sharif el gamal to reconsider building his mosque in the ground zero area an act of hate or is el gamals indifference to what many consider sacred grounds the problem and not AMERICAN muslims,as you stated. -
whynot_31 wrote: Do we believe that the folks who are going to attend the community center and mosque somehow do not live and work in the area?
How is it a trophy?
....lots of Muslims work in the banks and other corporations in the area. For example, the NYC Subways administration bldg (located at 2 Broadway) has a huge population of Muslim engineers and electricians.
....why shouldn't "they" build a center that is convenient to where "they" work?
P.S. They = us. I work in health care, lots of Muslim folks here as well.
who mentioned a trophy
no one said they can't build a mosque near where they work, the problem being voiced is about ground zero.
when asked if he would consider another spot in the area, el gamal said definitely not.
where is his sensitivity towards his fellow americans or is sensitivity a one way street. -
To equate the two forms of "sensitivity" is misleading and false.
American Muslims are offended b/c they're being singled out and ostracized from their own community and own city for an act which they literally have no connection to whatsoever.
SOME of the grieving families are offended out of their irrational association of moderate muslim Americans and Al Qaeda terrorists.
Again, I'm sorry for their unspeakable loss. But that in no way justifies an irrational and degrading mindset and sense of offense towards a group of people based strictly on their race, religion, or anything else and not on an actual connection or real-life responsibility whatsoever. -
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I think a bit of the irrational and degrading mind set for a few is probably based on a few insignificant incidents:
the1993 bombing of the world trade center
the uss cole
the beirut bombing
hate speeches and funds raised for terrorist by omar abdel rahman at the al faroog mosque on atlantic ave.
again ,people are requesting the mosque be built in another spot, it's that simple.
and my gut feeling if el gamal gets a better deal he'll build it somewhere else. -
Hamilton-
True, you have not used the term "trophy" but that's how the site is being painted by those opposed to it.
Please find a suitable building site within 6 blocks of 2 Broadway that is not also considered to be "too close" to ground zero. Convenient to transportation, etc. ...then convince El Gamal that he should abandon the perfectly good site he has already found.
As the media has pointed out there are already several mosques in the area; he seeks to build a large community center. The Muslim employees of MTA, and other large employers with a high percentage of Muslims in the area, view the public's objection to the plan's with exhausted resignation.
....I view it the same way.
This isn't a case of a newspaper displaying a photo of a mother standing over her just-murdered son. In such a case, I would not question the newspaper's right to publish the photo, but question the paper's sensitivity.
....In this situation, the organization clearly has the right to build and I find nothing insensitive about what they propose. Even if I (and the majority) of American's did find him to be insenstive, he has the right to decline to move the site. We have "rights" to prevent subjective, fluid interpretations of what is "sensitive".
What's right is not always popular. What's popular is not always right. -
Hamilton wrote:
Oh so their irrational association of moderate Americans with extremist murderers is based on more than one incident that they have nothing to do with? Great. And sadly irrelevant.
I think a bit of the irrational and degrading mind set for a few is probably based on a few insignificant incidents:
the1993 bombing of the world trade center
the uss cole
the beirut bombing
hate speeches and funds raised for terrorist by omar abdel rahman at the al faroog mosque on atlantic ave.
Moderate American Muslims have as little to do with those things as with 9/11.
Grief and loss are painful and awful but do not justify irrational ostracizing and kicking a group of people out of their own community based solely on their religion, race or anything else and not on any direct personal grounds.Hamilton wrote: .
To paint this as a simple and innocent request is completely dishonest to the bigger implications for our community, our city and our country.
again ,people are requesting the mosque be built in another spot, it's that simple. -
Boygabriel wrote: To equate the two forms of "sensitivity" is misleading and false.
This is better than I could have said!
American Muslims are offended b/c they're being singled out and ostracized from their own community and own city for an act which they literally have no connection to whatsoever.
SOME of the grieving families are offended out of their irrational association of moderate muslim Americans and Al Qaeda terrorists.
Again, I'm sorry for their unspeakable loss. But that in no way justifies an irrational and degrading mindset and sense of offense towards a group of people based strictly on their race, religion, or anything else and not on an actual connection or real-life responsibility whatsoever. -
If one were to agree that no mosque (or building containing a mosque) should be anywhere near Ground Zero, then all Christian churches should be forbidden anywhere near the Murrah Building site in Oklahoma City. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
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[quote="whynot_31"]Hamilton-
True, you have not used the term "trophy" but that's how the site is being painted by those opposed to it.
Please find a suitable building site within 6 blocks of 2 Broadway that is not also considered to be "too close" to ground zero. Convenient to transportation, etc. ...then convince El Gamal that he should abandon the perfectly good site he has already found.
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not my job , but i'm sure paterson will offer him a great deal, that he'll take and save face for obama. -
A website I believe to represent the voice of the Muslim Community:
http://www.isna.net/
I thought maybe folks should read some of it before we attempt to state how they feel. (something I was approaching).
I'll let the organization speak for its members. ....but as we know, no organization adequately and accurately speaks on behalf of the community it purports to represent. (think NAACP, AARP, etc).
Didn't Obama ask Paterson not to run? I can't imagine Paterson walked out of the experience with the desire to save Obama. -
I am no history buff but didn't we do something similar to the Japanese-Americans during WWII and we look back now at how ridiculous we were? I thinks it is time we learn from our past history.
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Salix wrote: If one were to agree that no mosque (or building containing a mosque) should be anywhere near Ground Zero, then all Christian churches should be forbidden anywhere near the Murrah Building site in Oklahoma City. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
give harry reid a call, he may help you out. -
A coalition of Muslims Conservatives is against that party using it as a political tool and victimizing Muslims in the process.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/17/conservative-muslimameric_n_684692.html -
Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
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Hamilton wrote:
Oh so their irrational association of moderate Americans with extremist murderers is based on more than one incident that they have nothing to do with? Great. And sadly irrelevant.
I think a bit of the irrational and degrading mind set for a few is probably based on a few insignificant incidents:
the1993 bombing of the world trade center
the uss cole
the beirut bombing
hate speeches and funds raised for terrorist by omar abdel rahman at the al faroog mosque on atlantic ave.
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to you it may be irrelevant, but i think a mosque raising money to fund terrorist is something to be concerned about. -
Was the Atlantic ave mosque in anyway associated with the one being proposed? I'd hate for all Christians to be banned as a result of the antics and insanity of the Westboro "baptist" church
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Ps. It sounds like Hamilton is now objecting to far more than location. It's as if Muslims mosques are all the same.
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Boygabriel wrote: [quote=Hamilton]
Oh so their irrational association of moderate Americans with extremist murderers is based on more than one incident that they have nothing to do with? Great. And sadly irrelevant.
I think a bit of the irrational and degrading mind set for a few is probably based on a few insignificant incidents:
the1993 bombing of the world trade center
the uss cole
the beirut bombing
hate speeches and funds raised for terrorist by omar abdel rahman at the al faroog mosque on atlantic ave.
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to you it may be irrelevant, but i think a mosque raising money to fund terrorist is something to be concerned about.
But the point is the leader of this particular congregation (not sure if that is the proper term here) has not been proven to raise money for terrorists and last time I checked a person was innocent until proven guilty.
While this whole project may make many people feel uncomfortable that doesn't make it wrong.
I remember about a month after 9/11 I got on the subway and three Arabic-looking men were on the train. I got on and walked off and when I watched the train move away I started crying because I realized right then and there that I become what I always swore I would not. I allowed my anger and mourning to cloud the person I worked so hard to become. To this day it is still one the biggest regrets in my life.
I also watched my brother's anger push him to acts in the name of the son he lost. I was lucky to see him come around and realize that he was misled. This incident affected him so much that he agreed to tell his story as part of a movie a couple years ago. -
whynot_31 wrote: Was the Atlantic ave mosque in anyway associated with the one being proposed? I'd hate for all Christians to be banned as a result of the antics and insanity of the Westboro "baptist" church
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i must be writing cryptic messages , if so advise where i compared atlantic ave mosque with the" trophy" one
to be built at ground zero.
the atlantic ave statement in response to a Boygabriel post. -
whynot_31 wrote: Ps. It sounds like Hamilton is now objecting to far more than location. It's as if Muslims mosques are all the same.
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where did i say that?
or is this just another misquote you attribute to me, like the trophy mosque statement on an earlier post.
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