guy vs TSA (Thousands Standing Around)

What your describing is NOT a bad thing. Somehow profiling became a dirty word. Its not.

Its gotten to the point that you can't even describe the race or ethnicity of an individual without someone saying, "oh, why do you have to refer to him/her in that manner." Because thats what they are! They are white or black or muslim or a WASP or whatever the hell else a person is.

We are not just faceless droids without characteristics. Those characteristics makes us who we are and define us for better or for worse.

Booklaw, its not wrong. If someone with the last named McVeigh walked into a government building in Oklahoma or someone with the last name Kaczynki sent you a package in the mail - you wouldn't be a wonderfully liberal free thinking, non profiling individual for not doing a double take, you would be a moron.

As far as Whynot's post goes. I mean really whatever, people also have these convenient little anonymous stories that exactly prove their point beyond a shadow of a doubt. Well, you must be correct because your completely one sided story that involves you as a source is clearly evidence enough this could happen.

And I choose #2. Frankly, I think people who have a problem with TSA guidelines and other situations like this are selfish, self centered brats. And they hide behind phrases such as "rights", "individuality" or "privacy." They cloak themselves in these words when they really don't believe in them and hide behind them to make a "look at me" point about how the big bad government is infringing on their life. Its complete nonsense. Those words actually MEAN something to a lot of people. They mean something in the larger scheme of the social contract between a government and its people and the steps needed to be taken to ensure future generations get an opportunity to contemplate what those words mean.

(I dont know how the mods will take this answer but here it goes.)

Since you asked the question, in my opinion, I will respect you and others on this site and give my honest opinion even if some may feel its a personal attack:

No, I do not live in fear. Certainly not fear of terrorists or anything of that nature. And what I am describing is not living in fear. Its living with the common sense and respect for a system attempting to adjust to ever changing times and willing to allow that system to try new things to keep me safe. I live no part of my life in fear of anything really bc I feel its ok to sacrifice a little of my personal time to make sure that body as a whole is safe. That word sacrifice is something that I do not think people like you know anything about. In addition, I do not hate your Burger King Idea because I am afraid it might work. I hate your Burger King Idea for the same reason that this is a beautiful, wonderful country. That a mind that has created such a stupid example and continue to defend it - is granted the same opportunities as I am. That your vote means the same as mine, that you could rise to the same level in any given area or be granted the same responsibility that I could is what disturbs me about your idea. Its the wonderful and dangerous thing about America, fools are protected too.

Despite 1980's dislike of my post, we haven't answered how additional sacrifice by 1980, Booklaw (or myself) will prevent someone from pursuing something similar (and as simple as....) my Burger King idea.

...much less my more classic, less clever, Prospect Park idea.

I'm pretty sure I (a very unskilled welder) could build such a device in less than a week. If I used a little math, it would not even need a guidance system: A simple mortar/howitzer device would likely do the trick.

Note: I have made no argument that I have an inherent right to board a plane without being felt up. [Booklaw is the one who is arguing that angle, and the slippery slope that ensues].

...I simply take the perspective that a little wine, some mood lighting and jazz music would be nice before the TSA representative gets to put his/her hand down there.

As a #4 person, I'll adjust what I believe are my rights and continue to fly. I simply argue that the government's methods serve very little purpose, and can be easily circumvented. ...and are foolish as a result.

I'd even go so far to say that I would be willing to give some flyers more scrutiny IF IT WORKED. But, it wouldn't. The "professional terrorist" would find a way to create a new identity, or just decide not to fly and built that mortar tube.

http://www.docsmachine.com/nonPB/mortar.html

It doesn't look real difficult.

I'm sorry 1980 doesn't like it.

Read the mortar link.

How bright does someone have to be to weld TIG and MIG?

I can do it, and you think I'm dumb.

...the Burger King idea might need some work. For example, I'd have to be sure it wasn't a Wendy's inside the gate area. Are you really convinced someone couldn't get a package in this way?

I'm not.

P.S. The heroin guy was brighter than me. If I remember correctly, he max'd out (was not released on parole), after something like 12 years in one of NY's most secure facilities.

As a non-hospital based program, we first had to transfer him to a medical detox before we could serve him.

http://www.sjrcrehab.org/about.html

....but folks should continue to do their patriotic duty and believe the present TSA system is completely secure, or that additional measures would make it secure. We can make it so no one could defeat it! (um......)

I haven't researched the Burger King idea enough to know whether it would work. It might not.

....but I believe with very little work, I (or basically anyone) could do the research necessary to create such a plan to circumvent the present system, and all the present xray-ing and groping would be shown to be the waste of money that I believe it is...

Until then, we will have a defacto WPA in place. Perhaps as unemployment grows, the TSA will employ more people.

P.S. Cool Mortar, huh?

Note to Mougar-

You still got those math skills? They might come in handy. I know a place on Ocean Ave that will rent me an OxyAct set-up. I've also had good luck getting to use equip at the body shop on Pacific Ave. and Grand Ave.

Note to the TSA and Port Authority-

Mougar and I will use our math skills and canon to protect planes from an very real threat to safe aviation travel.

Yes, we will destroy the enemy the we can readily identify and have fun in the process: Those Prospect Park geese.

They better get back to Canada where they belong. We will check our math to make sure we don't hit planes.

BTW, do we all realize that the risk of arrest really is not a deterrent to someone who is willing to give their life for a cause?

....given enough beer, many men might risk arrest just to see a bowling ball fly across a field.....

...given addiction, boredom, and the promise of financial gain, men will figure out way to sneak heroin into secure prisons.

...with enough ideology some are willing to die for a cause. No matter how much we invest in our silly TSA system, it doesn't stand a chance at being effective against them, and we may (very unnecessarily...) end up on the road Booklaw discusses.

---- Can I sue 1980 now that I am craving Burger King? It is bad for me, afterall ----

"when groups of people with the last names that indicate they are black, irish, jewish, italian, polish russian, etc initiate repeated attempts to attack this country and are wildly successful in one of those attempts - then all people with those last names deserve to be given additional attention."

Indeed, this suggestion by 1980 would represent a huge expansion off the present system, and be similar to an unacceptably large net for a few fish.

Civil liberty concerns aside, (after all, who needs 'em? - sarcasm) such an expansion would be even less efficient than our present Homeland Security "terrorist watch list".

I have read that this present list names so common that anyone with a similar name is already subject to extra scrutiny.

...until we are able to identify people by a means that can not YET be faked (such as iris scans), this seems like a tremendous waste of resources. I'm sure everyone, especially those who want to do us harm, we make sure their iris scans are accurately in the system (sarcasm).....

Give these concerns and the fact there is no need to actually be a passenger on a plane in order to take it out of the sky, why would we expand such a system?

Couldn't the folks at Homeland Security just calm down and give the savings the good folks in national park service?

My concern is that the TSA is focused on things like feeling up passengers and is not stopping things like this http://articles.cnn.com/2010-10-14/justice/new.york.airport.cocaine_1_baggage-handlers-airline-employees-airline-workers?_s=PM:CRIME

Those same methods could easily be exploited by someone who was up to no good. As you can see from that article the entire enterprise was in operation post-9/11.

And this is by no means an isolated incident. If you google drug smuggling and any major airport you'll see the same thing, including cases where TSA employees are involved

http://www.dhs.gov/xoig/assets/press/OIGpr_061808.pdf

So, rather than putting kids under twelve on the no-fly list because they share the same last name as someone who may be wanted for suspicion of terrorism, why not focus on making the process harder for people to take advantage of?

Although I feel like I am falling into the "arguing with fools to the point that from a distance we look similar", I will say this:

No, booklaw your cute little condescending poem is a gross exaggeration over what I was talking about. There you go again, cloaking yourself in a term like "civil liberties" when all your really concerned with is your time and your convenience. Me, me, me, me should be the title of your posts.

And I beginning to think my original assumptions if you cannot differentiate between getting drugs and bombs into the country.

Slope, you're still ignoring how ineffective the TSA itself is.

I am not against security measures. I am against wasteful government spending on an inefficient and somewhat ineffective govt department.

Booklaw-

I love the idea that flying can be made safe from terrorists, and that when the next attack happens the security folks can blame two groups:

A. The civil libertarians who would not let them implement more security or give them more resources.

B. Terrorists.

....it is a lot like talking with someone who believes Vietnam could have been won. They blame the protesters for losing the war. The logic was that by sympathizing with the dead civilians and the sovereignty of Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam, the protesters tied the hands of the military and allowed the enemy to win.

As a result of believing that life (especially flying) has inherent risks, I've always believed that one should pick their battles very carefully, and weigh the result of your possible choices:

1. Don't fight.

2. Fight with realistic goals.

3. Fight to win, using whatever means necessary. Never change course.

I kinda like #2.

....until then I would like at least a bottle of wine before they feel me up.

Howmeowner-

Are you stating that people who are willing to flood the country with drugs that destroy families, communities and lives aren't especially patriotic?! (sarcastic gasp)

You mean I could just tell the present guys who are looking the other way when cocaine is being shipped, that I am simply a new exporter and that would like the same service as his existing customers?

....hell, before the airport, I could just substitute a brick of cocaine for a brick of explosives, and not even have the conversation with the folks at the airport. Yes, I could just put it in the drug supply chain.

...I especially like that I would not even have to buy a shirt and then die like in the Burger King scenario. Brilliant.

boom.

Headline: Thinking the package was a drug shipment, the package was diverted around customs and directly on to the plane.

MHA, you're right!

It seems likely that if the scanners could identify cocaine-filled condoms in the stomach or intestinal tract, and thus make a genuine contribution to the reduction of drug smuggling, that the TSA would already have shouted that fact from the rooftops.

So wait... now we can expect a colonoscopy every time we fly, right?

All those billions of dollars and yet this is still true:

http://www.steptoe.com/publications-newsletter-16.html

• 
  Most importantly, the US government lacks a process to obtain data and analyze risks with respect to air cargo. This situation is in stark contrast to the robust systems for obtaining and analyzing risks regarding inbound passengers and inbound maritime cargo.
  
  
• 
  Thanks to good work by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), there is a reasonably protective system for conducting physical screening of cargo on passenger planes traveling within or from the United States. But this leaves uncovered cargo on: (i) “all-cargo” flights; and (ii) many flights (whether passenger or all-cargo) from foreign locations headed to the United States.a

Arbitrary search and seizure by poorly paid government employees.

What could go wrong!? stop complaining so much!

Man Arrested for Videotaping TSA Officials While Stripping Down to his Underwear

In clear contradiction of what Transportation Security Administration officials have stated in the past, a man was arrested for videotaping TSA officials at San Diego International Airport Friday.

Sam Wolanyk was also charged with "failing to complete the security process" - even though he seemed more than happy to allow them to search him when he stripped down to his underwear.

Wolanyk initially was asked to step into the see-through scanner, but opted to have them pat him down instead.

That was when he stripped down to his underwear . . .

Wolanyk was then paraded through two terminals in his underwear. At one point during this interaction, he videotaped TSA officials with his iPhone, which was confiscated.

The incident was confirmed by Harbor Police Sergeant Rakos who said Wolanyk was arrested on two misdemeanors, “failing to complete the security process; violation code 7.01 and illegally recording the San Diego Airport Authority (they confiscated his iPhone); violation number 7.14 (a).”

It is not clear which "violation codes" he violated. A search though severalSan Diego city and county codes did not produce anything remotely close to what is listed above . . . .

Despite tough talk on the Internet

hahahaha. best lede ever?