NYC Housing Rent Control Battle, Round: 99,999,999,999
Comments
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How about saying rent is the lower of market rate for that apartment (as measured by comparison to similar apartments in the neighborhood) or 25% of household income (as reported on NYS income tax returns), plus anybody owning residential property in the tri-state area is ineligible for rent concessions (if you own a house you live in it not be subsidized into rent). I would also add that retirees should not be able to own property anywhere in the USA or Canada to be eligible for a subsidy - you own a condo in Florida, go live there and let a working family have that rent regulated apartment.
I vividly recall riding the train out to the beach on Long Island last summer listening to a woman telling her companion she was on her way to her beach house, she was emphasizing the importance of keeping her legal residence at her rent regulated apartment in the city so she didn't lose it. If someone can afford a beach house on Long Island, they don't need a subsidized apartment in the city.
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Having a body which objectively keeps up with neighbor rents sounds onerous and tedious.
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whynot_31 said:
Having a body which objectively keeps up with neighbor rents sounds onerous and tedious.It's already done, by real estate brokers, the city (there's a reporting process for regulated apartments) and you can bet if we ever moved to a free rental market, the city or state would impose a tax on leases.
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Yes, the RE agencies currently track this (as does the Furman ctr), but the impact of the dada is not presently regulatory.
That's when you get the potential for politics and fraud.
Re: having a tax on leases, I wonder how much we currently spent on enforcing our present rent stabilization and rent controll regulations.
Housing court, DHCR, HPD, etc can't be cheap.
I'm sure REBNY could create an impact statement with represented the impact on it's members as well.
PS the rent control board meets tomorrow for their preliminary mtg of the yr
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There already is a tax on leases indirectly with the mortgage interest deduction (i.e., if you rent, your taxes are higher than somebody whose income and mortgage payments are similar to your income and rent). Not to mention if it's behavioral, it's a little silly... if people could buy in the city, they would; they rent cause they have no choice.
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I disagree: Some people rent out of convenience.
...but I agree that most people who are currently LEGALLY in rent controlled and stabilized apartments would be unable to buy a place if they lost their apartment.
It is unknowable, but I'd be interested in knowing where the current beneficiaries of rent regulations spend the difference in $ between market vs and their rate.
The report in the OP argues that the population is poor, and that they are not "enjoying a great standard of life" at the expense of their landlords and fellow co-op owners ....it argues that such regulations are merely allowing the recipients to "get by and continue to live in the city".
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I'm still waiting for an explanation of what is deemed enough help, and where the money for such help would come from.
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Ah, entitlements.
Regardless of whether we have a way to pay for them, we always love receiving them and passing them out to others
At the moment, this may be the only entitlement that is not growing.
The rule that states "once rent is $2000 a month, the unit is deregulated" has had the impact of reducing the number of units.
At the current rate of deregulation, this entitlement/benefit could be largely a thing of the past in another 5-10 years.
I don't see the defenders of the policies as being able to stop the trend.
(Note: The creation of affordable housing is separate discussion, and seems to have widespread support ....largely because the programs are geared toward a specific income group, as opposed to "merely" who has lived in their apartment forever.
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whynot_31 said:
Ah, entitlements.Regardless of whether we have a way to pay for them, we always love receiving them and passing them out to others
At the moment, this may be the only entitlement that is not growing.
The rule that states "once rent is $2000 a month, the unit is deregulated" has had the impact of reducing the number of units.
At the current rate of deregulation, this entitlement/benefit could be largely a thing of the past in another 5-10 years.
I don't see the defenders of the policies as being able to stop the trend.
(Note: The creation of affordable housing is separate discussion, and seems to have widespread support ....largely because the programs are geared toward a specific income group, as opposed to "merely" who has lived in their apartment forever.
The $2k threshold only applies to vacated apartments. In occupied apartments the rent must reach $2k andthe occupants must have over $175,000 in house hold income (AGI) for 2 years.
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I have never read the minutes of a Rent Guidelines Board meeting much less attended a meeting. So I have no idea what I am talking about. But I imagine that the negotiation must include at some point the assertion that the costs have gone up and that those costs must be borne by the tenants somehow, and that the landlords of controlled apartments say, “I have someone paying $200 a month. My heating bill went up so much that only a 30% increase is going to pay for it.” And that is taken into consideration. Meanwhile there are landlords who have apartments that rent for $1000 a month and they say that 5% will cover their cost increases. And the tenants speak; their earnings only went up 2% (or whatever). And this is all put in a blender and some number is arrived at. Or range of numbers. In the end no one is happy.
But there are two winners: the landlords whose apartments rent for a high amount of money per month. Their costs went up less than the increase, because the increase was figured on the average or mean or a combination of the two. The other winners are the renters of apartments that are very low price, because the percentage increase for their apartment is low compared to the increased cost of maintaining it. Let’s assume that these are rational actors for the purposes of this exercise. Of course there are going to be tenants who have $200 apartments who complain about the increase, despite it being a great deal, and there will be landlords of high price apartments who complain that they could gain more if there were no limits at all, despite the price discount they enjoyed when they obtained the property because of its covenants.
This has been going on a long time and things keep getting more out of balance. What I propose is that the percentage method of increases necessarily leads to a worsening of the problem. What is needed is a modification of it. If the rent increase was calculated in a slightly more complex equation this could be corrected. The formula should be rent + f (a fixed amount) OR rent * p (a percentage amount), whichever is more. This would hurt the two groups that have been gaining all these many years, and benefit everyone else. To make it even more fair, for the cheap apartments, a further factor should be the size of the apartment, since a larger apartment costs more to maintain than a small one. With s being the value of 1 for an average size apartment (in square feet), and the value of s determined by the apartments size relative to that average apartment, then the formula would be rent + f(s) OR rent * p. Perhaps a curve where values such as (e.g.) .5[rent + f(s)] plus .5[rent * p] would be acceptable as the middle value.
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sandcastle-
yes, such a system would make sense.
...but I don't think any of the current beneficiaries have an incentive to agree to such a change.Also, government would have to make calculations and measurements of every unit covered. Aren't there something like 300,000 units covered? Sounds like a pain.
vidro-
yup, this is why landlords have an incentive to pay people in apartments to leave.Landlord: "Grandma, can I help you move to sunny condo in sunny florida? Here's a down payment. ...and the number of a really good mover"
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whynot_31 said:
yes, such a system would make sense.
...but I don't think any of the current beneficiaries have an incentive to agree to such a change.Also, government would have to make calculations and measurements of every unit covered. Aren't there something like 300,000 units covered? Sounds like a pain.
Whynot:
You say not any beneficiaries would be in favor. Why not? (harhar)The percentage-based increase should be lower because it is not being pushed up by the inclusion of the low-rent apartments, which are instead increased by the arithmatical fixed amount. If the percentage increase dropped from (e.g.) 4% to 3%, a lot of tenants would be in favor of it.
The politics: There are two classes who would be against the nuanced formula: the tenants of very low rent apartments and the landlords of very high rent apartments. There are two classes who would be for it: the landlords of very low rent apartments and the tenants of very high rent apartments. The middle-rent landlords and tenants would be relatively unaffected by the change in formula. However, because the change would *gradually* make the system more fair, and therefore be likely to continue longer, those in the middle would be for the change if they wanted the system to continue, and against the change if they wanted the system to founder in crisis sooner.
So tell me, why do you think it would be doomed to fail from the outset?
The s value: You think it too difficult? Why? Also, why do you assume that the government must make *any* size calculations?
The s value could default to 1. If either party (landlord or tenant) wished to use another value to reflect the size of the apartment, they could provide that themselves for use in their contract. This is pretty fast using that laser measuring device that most contractors have. You’ve seen those things, right? A whole apartment can be measured to easily within 100 square feet accuracy in 5 or 10 minutes. Maybe the market price for this service would be $50, which would be the point at which one of them would find it worthwhile. OK maybe government would have to step in IF the parties cannot agree on the size. It would be arbitrated. Loser pays, or bill split if reasonably close. To prevent cheating, if any contractor was found cheating on the measurements, they would be fined. A figure only needs to be established once. Not that big of a deal, really, when hundreds OR thousands of rent dollars are at stake.
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Contractors consistently use measuring tapes correctly, but landlords and real estate agents always seem to have trouble.
Their calculations of sq ft are always much higher than mine.
But overall, I like your proposal.
...but continue to question whether HCR and HPD is up to the task.
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The gov't... shit, some kid off the street could easily put together a little program that could calculate a "fair market value" for a rental, based on all the things people take into account when they choose a place to live. The real challanges lie in creating enticing but sensible incentives to get landlords to play along, and how to deal w/the old people in $400/mo rent controlled apartments in TriBeCa (best bet is to just wait it out w/them).
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Is it just me, or do you guys perceive the "pro-rent law people" as being more quiet and disorganized than in years past?
With only two weeks to go, I haven't seen the number of editorials in the news that I usually see.
...I've only heard of a few rallys.
Rally this Sunday to Demand Stronger Rent Laws
From: NYS Senator Tom Duane [mailto:webmaster@tomduane. com]
New York State Senator Tom Duane
Dear Friend,
New York's rent laws expire in less than two weeks, on June 15th! Rent
regulated tenants and their advocates must make it clear that we need these laws renewed and strengthened to protect our homes and our city. Landlords and State Senate Republicans are working to weaken these laws even further, opening the door to more unfair rent increases and evictions.This Sunday, please join me as well as other state and city legislators,
tenants, clergy, and labor leaders in a rally to demand stronger rent laws!RALLY FOR STRONGER RENT LAWS
Sunday, June 5, 2011 at 2:30pm
First Corinthian Baptist Church
Adam Clayton Powell Boulevard (7th Avenue) at 116th St.Sponsored by:
The NYS Black, Puerto Rican, Hispanic & Asian Legislative Caucus,
Pastor Michael A. Walrond, Jr., the Working Families Party, and the Real
Rent Reform CampaignThe home you save may be your own - Come to the rally to learn what you can do!
PLEASE RSVP TO MY OFFICE: duane@nysenate. gov or 212-633-8052.
FOR MORE INFORMATION: www.RealRentReform. blogspot. com/212-608- 4320
ext. 316/ RealRentReform@ gmail.comSincerely,
Thomas K. Duane
New York State Senator
29th DistrictThere is always a surge of rhetoric from both sides right before the hearing, but this year isn't looking promising for those who like to see newscasts that feature screaming people getting arrested.
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State Lawmakers Argue Over Rent Laws as Deadline Looms
By THOMAS KAPLAN 6/14/11 NYTALBANY — Rent regulations that limit how much landlords can charge for more than one million apartments in New York City and its suburbs are set to expire at the end of Wednesday, and lawmakers on Tuesday were still debating whether to simply renew them or to make changes sought by tenant advocates.
State Senators John L. Sampson, left, and Adriano Espaillat say rent regulations must be strengthened, not just extended.
Democrats in the Legislature, along with Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo and the tenant advocates, are pushing to extend and strengthen the regulations in an effort to slow the pace at which rent-stabilized apartments are converted into market-rate homes. But Republicans, who hold a slim majority in the State Senate, have shown no interest in bolstering rent regulations, which landlords and developers often criticize as being unfair to property owners.
Among lawmakers, there was little doubt that a continuation of the regulations would be approved by the scheduled end of the legislative session on Monday. But recent days have brought frenetic lobbying on both sides, as the details of the extension hang in the balance.
“I just want to put it succinctly: an extension is not enough,” the Senate Democratic leader, John L. Sampson of Brooklyn, said Tuesday while standing amid a throng of tenant advocates. “We cannot vote for anything that does not strengthen the rent regulation laws, and we need everyone to understand that.”
Mr. Cuomo, a Democrat and former federal housing secretary, held a strategy session with lawmakers on Tuesday in which he promised to pressure Senate Republicans to agree to something more than a simple extension of the current rent laws. But it appeared as if rent regulations would be among the final issues to be dealt with before lawmakers left Albany.
“I think it has been a lot of posturing,” said Michael McKee, the treasurer of the Tenants Political Action Committee, an advocacy group. He added: “I brought nine days’ worth of socks and underwear. We’re going to be here until the end.”
Competing bills in the Senate and the Assembly, which is controlled by the Democrats, reflect serious partisan differences over how to extend the rent laws.
The Assembly proposal, approved in April, would eliminate vacancy decontrol, which allows landlords to deregulate apartments when they become vacant and their rent passes $2,000. It would also tighten the criteria for so-called luxury decontrol, which allows landlords to deregulate apartments when tenants’ income exceeds $175,000 for two consecutive years and the rent is at least $2,000. The Assembly bill would change the luxury decontrol limits to $300,000 in income and $3,000 in rent.
Some representatives of the real-estate industry have expressed openness to raising the dollar limits for deregulating apartments, though not by nearly as much as the Assembly is seeking, according to people involved in the negotiations. But landlords have refused to consider ending vacancy decontrol altogether, these people said.
The debate has intensified this week. Tenant advocates demonstrated at the Capitol on Monday, and two Democrats — Senator Bill Perkins of Manhattan and Assemblyman José Rivera of the Bronx — were among a group arrested for civil disobedience for sitting in front of the entrance to Mr. Cuomo’s office.
On Tuesday, though, tenant advocates tried to allay concern about the impending expiration of the rent laws. They said renters would not be harmed if the laws were to expire for a few days, as was the case during similar negotiations in 1997, because residents would still be protected for the duration of their leases. Tenants whose leases expire in the next few days should already have been offered renewals under the current rent regulations.
Senate Republicans have proposed a temporary extension of the current laws through Friday. The last time rent laws were set to expire, in 2003, the Senate approved legislation to extend but weaken the laws and then immediately adjourned for the year. Assembly Democrats had little choice but to approve the same legislation, lest they lose rent protections altogether.
Lawmakers accused Republicans of trying the same move this year. “This is an end-around to try to skip town,” said Senator Adriano Espaillat of Manhattan, the senior Democrat on the Senate housing committee. “We’ve seen it before. We’re not going to be fooled by it. We know what it is. It’s a cheap trick.”
Senate Republicans denied stalling as a form of gamesmanship but said they did not wish to vote on rent regulations until the Assembly speaker, Sheldon Silver, a Manhattan Democrat, agreed to hold a vote on capping local property taxes.
“If the speaker refuses to act on a consensus bill, he could jeopardize affordable housing for more than a million people, including some of his own constituents,” said Scott Reif, a spokesman for the Senate majority leader, Dean G. Skelos, a Long Island Republican.
A possible compromise could tie a rent-stabilization bill to other real-estate legislation being sought by developers and landlords, including the extension of a tax break for certain new residential buildings, known as the 421-a program. In addition, the real estate industry is seeking a so-called legislative solution to resolve a 2009 court ruling that said the owners of the Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village complexes in Manhattan had improperly deregulated thousands of apartments while taking special tax benefits from the city.
Democratic lawmakers said they were open to extending the tax credit for developers as part of an agreement on rent regulations, but not to approving legislation relating to the Stuyvesant/Cooper court ruling. “For me and for many others, that is something that would be completely unacceptable,” said Assemblyman Brian P. Kavanagh, a Manhattan Democrat.
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As expected, they passed an extension and enacted some minor changes.
Surprise, surprise neither side is satisfied with the bill. [When both sides thing a piece of legislation is dumb, that means it is good legislation, right?]
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We now return to critiques of the current system. This one is from the right...
source: http://www.city-journal.org/2011/eon0621hh.html
Howard Husock
Three Bedrooms, One Tenant
New York confronts underoccupancy in subsidized housing.
21 June 2011It’s a familiar scenario for those whose children have grown up and left home: a house or apartment, once the right size for a family of four or five, becomes more than a middle-aged parent or parents need. The cost, whether it’s in property taxes or rent, doesn’t seem worth it any more. And so a household makes the hard decision to downsize, perhaps moving to another neighborhood or even another part of the country to save money. This process doesn’t just help families adapt to changing life circumstances; it keeps cities dynamic, as the aging make way for ambitious newcomers.
Things are dramatically different, however, in public housing, especially in New York. In Gotham’s projects, either tenants pay a percentage of their income in rent, or else their apartments have fixed rent ceilings. Property taxes and utility bills may rise for others, but not for them. So it is that one person may inhabit a three-bedroom apartment with no incentive to leave. The New York City Housing Authority (NYCHA) estimates that 40,000 units in its 180,000-unit system (the nation’s largest) are “underoccupied,” with one or more empty bedrooms. Meanwhile, 144,000 families, mostly single parents with young kids, languish on the waiting list for an apartment.
NYCHA recently announced that it will start taking steps toward moving some of the overhoused out of their apartments. “It’s a constrained resource,” says NYCHA chair John Rhea. “Resources should be scaled to the need.” It’s Rhea’s hope to make more of these apartments available to those who truly need them, such as “the hard-working immigrant with a family of four, struggling to make ends meet.” Rhea deserves applause for confronting the issue, but NYCHA has instead been attacked in some quarters. TAKE THAT, GRANDMA: CITY HOUSING AUTHORITY TARGETING TENANTS WITH MORE SPACE THAN THEY NEED, declared the Daily News.
It will be a major management challenge to “create mobility for people,” as Rhea delicately puts it. Rhea, who brings a sterling business-management background to his post, must deal with the fact that NYCHA has limited leverage over those thousands who prefer to stay put. It’s understandable why some don’t wish to leave; after all, they won’t save any money in rent by moving to a smaller place. So NYCHA is forced to consider either building more one-bedroom units for overhoused residents—a difficult prospect for an agency already facing a steep structural budget deficit—or dangling a housing voucher to allow them to move to one of the city’s 100,000-plus voucher-paid units (for which there is also a long waiting list).
Rhea concedes that NYCHA will ultimately need to wield some sort of “stick” to force tenants to move, which is bound to set off a public backlash. He promises “to be very transparent, to provide appropriate notice,” and other steps designed to soften the blow. But coming up with a way to do it won’t be easy. The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development rules currently prohibit the most obvious solution: paying tenants to relocate. “We are not going to put money in their pocket,” says Rhea, and he has no cash to spare even if the rules permitted it. If HUD could be convinced to allow NYCHA to make such relocation payments, however, one way to raise the needed funds would be to start selling off some of the many high-value properties that NYCHA owns in lower Manhattan and on the Brooklyn waterfront. Such sales would net hundreds of millions, which could be used for both relocation expenses and the huge maintenance backlog that plagues the aging public-housing system. Adopting a time limit on new tenancies, similar to the five-year limit on public cash assistance, is another approach that could work.
The city’s addiction to “affordable housing” extends beyond its projects. New York’s 1 million–plus rent-stabilized apartments are also plagued by underoccupancy, and for the same reason: tenants have no incentive to make normal life-cycle transitions. Generations of public officials cannot seem to accept this truth. State Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli, for instance, has found that 64 percent of the city’s 2.1 million rental apartments enjoy protection from market forces—but like so many before him, he sees this as a good thing. He concludes that “rent regulations keep the price tag of living in New York within reach for millions of working men and women. That’s good for the city and the city’s economy.”
DiNapoli has things exactly backward. So-called affordable housing leads to inefficient use, to shortages, and to waiting lists. Building more and more subsidized units is not the answer. It is far better to free tenants from the false benefits of a dependency that shelters them from choice and change. For any city that hopes to remain vigorous, housing must be free to change hands. Only that way can we make room for those, rich and poor, who will build the city anew.
Howard Husock, a contributing editor of City Journal, is the Manhattan Institute’s vice president for policy research and the author of America’s Trillion-Dollar Housing Mistake.
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This piece seems pretty moderate:
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It is that time of year again. Rent stabilization hearings 2013!
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Usually I think the rent increases are too low (and I'm not a landlord or one who lives in a rent controlled/stabilized building) but 5 and 6% seems to be quite high. The owners must be thrilled. The tenants...not so much.
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Both sides are complaining, so it must be a good ruling.
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This year, the mayoral candidates who are less dependent upon the support of property owners are not hesitating to take pro-tenant positions:
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It's good that the current administration has done much of the dirty work for the next one. Bloomberg has taken the heat for the increase in transit fares, the increase in rents and various other city maladies. Those are usually the biggies. The next mayor should have it easy for at least a year.
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I disagree.
The next mayor has to deal with all of the unions who have been working without contracts for years.
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In san francisco the rent laws are stricter then here in NY. In response the frustrated landlords have decided to leave their apartments vacant in protest. This led to a decrease in available housing and 1 bedroom apartments went up from $2764 to $3500 in a very short period of time.
NY landlords will take the same cue if pushed to the limits.http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opinion/king-of-my-castle-yeah-right.html?_r=1&;
Landlords must charge higher rents for new tenants to compensate for the little old lady living in a 3 bedroom apartment by herself for $213.45 per month.
If rent stabilization would disappear then rents will go down across the board (ofcourse not for the little old lady paying $213.45). This will be so because a lot more apartments will become available and demand will come down.........just like it did in 2009 when vacancy rate in NY was the highest its been in years.
........just my 2 cents worth.
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The above mayoral candidates do seem to be promising far more than they can deliver.
It reminds me of elementary school, when the candidates for class president promised less homework and more holidays.
Ah, populism.
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The 2013 results are in!
Mayoral candidate grandstanding: check
Compromise between opposing forces, resulting in something neither extreme likes: check
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.....AND THE WINNER IS: *nobody*
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See you next year, everyone!
Howdy, Stranger!
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