The day food stamps accidentally stop (vid)

6 kids, food stamps... seems lucid, no job? Now if she was banging them out back to back every 9 months... that's still nearly 6 years of this, dating back to 2005 in the heart of the boom, when unemployment was around 4-5%... so either she never had a job, or she had a job, lost it, and then kept pushing kids out anyway.

Progressives, this woman is the face of the faceless victims you protect. Can someone please explain why the gov't should subsidize the living expenses of someone who makes such lifestyle choices?

bohuma said:

Compulsory sterilization has been abolished. I for one do not want to reinstate any kind of government eugenics program. However, I would support the introduction of a one payer medical/dental/hospital (preferably through the federal government) plan that offers free birth control and family planning counseling to all members of society.

There we go.

Health care reform.

Actual social support and counseling.

Change the dynamics.

Health care reform (and national health improvement) is entirely possible and reasonable.

But are libertarians and Republican voters reasonable when it comes to health care reform?

so far: no

Contrary to what you say, there is no magic needed on this particular point.

There was a piece on Dateline last night about the impact of factory closures on a small town in Georgia. The story followed 3 women, one single mother w/2 kids who worked her way off public assistance with her factory job, one business owner who was married with 2 kids who lost her business after the factories shut, and one single woman who was a VP at a local bank then lost both that job and then another banking job within 2 years.

In this particular town unemployment hit 20%, and the comentator noted that medicaid had become the safety net for middle-class families. The business owner described how she had to get medicaid after her husband also lost his job and they spent all of their savings.

The reality is that we see the mother of six as the poster child for food stamps, and back in 2006-07 when numbers were low, she probably was representative of who was receiving food stamps. But today, there are plenty of "regular" folks who are receiving them including workers in their late 40's that are having a hard time getting back into the workforce, and families that were used to living on two incomes but can now not support themselves on one.

We have seen the enemy and they are us...

My argument is that you have to make so little money to qualify for medicaid (and less for food stamps). To receive health insurance at a rate you can afford, you have to be really poor or really rich. If affordable health care were to stay with you regardless of how much money you made, who wouldn't want to work more to get more money. Now though, you work harder to make a little money and all of a sudden you make too much for Medicaid and you're paying out $300 - $900 a month in insurance for one person.

Devils Advocate for my own point: This of course is not taking programs such as Healthy NY and Family Health Plus into consideration. It sometimes feels like these programs exist so people can be told a low-middle income option exists, but are rarely to never advertised or shared with t he people who really need them.

But in regards to:

You put a lot more faith in the ability of health care to change people than I do.

Tate-

Yes.

Health care does change lives. ...and given that health costs are a leading cause of personal bankruptcy, if we ever get something resembling universal healthcare in this country, it will do a lot to prevent people from ending up in poverty.

The problem stems from no one having the ability to implement such a system. Because it is so expensive, many people who are healthy don't want to be forced to buy health insurance, and the government might not have the ability to force us. Without the healthy folks participating, any insurance system crashes. ...the only alternative would be single payer, which is not politically viable in the US due to 999,999,999 reasons.

Hence, I believe the Supreme Court will have to over rule the Appellate Court, and the desire of the majority of the states or (in sharp contrast to the beliefs of BG) we will actually need magic.

No.

The 1 in 7 people on Food Stamps accounts for people only presently on it. It does not include people who qualify for the benefit, yet don't avail themselves of it due to pride/stigma.

P.S. Even with health care, we will still have poverty. It will stem from oppression, dysfunction, disease, racism, and people who make really bad decisions for themselves and their children.

We will never have the utopian societies imagined by those on the left OR the right. ....we figure out the best way to make due.

the list is much longer.

When you think about it, each person against health care is a reason it can't happen: Joe is reason #3, Bob is reason #4, Susan is reason #5, etc.

...So, being that we are a country of 300 million, simply listing the lames of people against it may get us to 100 million.

100,000, 001. Healthy people believe that sick people did something to cause it, and don't want to give them their money.

100,000,002. The government is perceived as being wasteful, and that the programs would be poorly administered.

100,000,003. People believe that we should limit the amount of health care. Lots of money should not be spend on people who are no longer able to enjoy life.

100,000,004. People who are old don't like to be told they are no longer enjoying life, and are consuming too many resources. They fear the government making such decisions. ....currently we decide not to decide, because the idea of forced euthanasia makes us quite uncomfortable.

100,000,005. We exist in a world where providing a social benefit makes us less competitive against countries who do not provide the same benefit. We value being our own self interests (like being able to buy more stuff at Walmart) over those that benefit other people (like universal healthcare).

You, my friend, are likely to need magic ....or a Supreme Court ruling.

I am sorry to inform you that the only system likely to remain in place is the present one. ...I suspect Obamacare is DOA.

Tell that to Purdue Chicken, Hormell meats or Walmart.

We all support health care reform, but it will never happen until everyone is required to participate in it. Until everyone is required to offer it, it makes us less competitive.

It seems most people want to be able take risks (opt-out), and then have everyone (medicaid) pay if they lose. Can you blame them?

Everyone is against poverty and hunger, and for health care. We just aren't willing to pay for it.

...So, while we oppose the solutions, we are not opposed to solving it.

Yes, have the government do it for free.

Walmart, like Hormell and Purdue and everyone else..., would prefer to offer health care only in the event everyone else also has to do it.

try again

We all would like universal health care, Walmart included.

...please give us our wish.

P.S. For extra points, make it "free". Everyone loves free.

We all do what we need to do to get a job.

I'm ready for more undeliverable promises in 2012.

...I don't hold it against the guy.

I'd rather Obama promise me things he can't deliver than the Republicans promise me things they might be able to deliver.

They're no less reasonable than the "save everyone now, regardless of cost or long term cyclical impact" pro program folks on the left.

Show me which major congressperson or progressive leader is arguing this.

I can list you 50 Republican leaders or writers who hold absurd ideas about "communist" health care.

I agree with a lot of the rest of your post, but don't equate the agenda and feasibility of health care reform among progressives with whatever it is that tea partiers and libertarians offer in its place.

I think it's a little silly to discount the solutions to our problems as impossible. It will just take sacrificial politicians to push these things through. O is too bent on re-election to effect change but I think there are people in Congress willing to bite the bullet.

I agree.

I think it's entirely possible that there are leaders who will fight the fight. Obama could have done it on the tails and momentum of his historic victory, but that's not in his agenda and unfortunately never has been.