The stakes are high
By putting so much money into trying to engage young minority men, Bloomberg's new program puts the stakes quite high.
http://www.citylimits.org/conversations/146/the-new-york-city-young-men-s-initiative
In a few years we will see if 127 million dollars was enough to break the cycle for its participants .
If doesn't turn out to be successful, we will we have to wait for some model that uses none of the present techniques before we attempt to address this problem again?
Will it be a victory for the naysayers?
Comments
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with 127 million dollars wow, they could of just paid the kids for life would of been a better idea.
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AW-
For the heck of it, let's imagine this program will run for 5 years and attempt to reach 10,000 of NYC's most at-risk youth.$127M/ 5 years = $25.4M per year. Cost is $2540 per youth, per year. My prediction: Not a strong enough program to break the cycle of poverty and crime.
So, let's try to reach fewer youth, 5000. The cost we be around $5000 per youth, per year. My prediction: Not a strong enough program to break the cycle of poverty and crime.
So, lets try 1000 youth. Cost is around $25,000, per youth per year. My prediction: This might work.
That's about what a year of intensive services (education, job training, case management, mental health, etc) costs at these reputable programs that try to reach very high risk youth:
Job Corpsor
Saint Vincent Service's American Dream program.
or
...if properly implemented, this program might radically change the lives of 1000 youth. If it tries to reach too many, it may end up effectively reaching very few.
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here is a better program, send all criminals regardless of race to free labor camps and they are supported by their labor.
people who believe in reforming criminals are haven't lived in a poor neighbhood and constantly robbed or beaten and the fear haven't set in yet.
these kids are living a life style a culture of crime. can't change that with putting them into programs. how much money is enough?
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nothing is "free".
....no community would want your work camp, and you'd have to provide guards to make sure they didn't simply leave.
Let's suppose they made widgets. Your prisoners would have to make huge profits off the widgets to pay for the guards and the land and their food, and I suspect whoever currently makes widgets would be upset as a result of being undercut by your work camp's unfair advantage.
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no community wants to pay for a bunch of lazy criminal forever either, unless its liberal whites with guilt in their minds because of their ancestors sins.
they have a choice call not committing crime.
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I wonder how many full time scholarships that could buy good kids. why throw good money at a bad investment. if this was business, I would put more money into good investments.
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So, when it is all said and done, if Bloomberg's valiant effort is deemed a failure, should we simply go back to putting folks in prison until they are too old to commit serious crimes?
P.S. The programs I list above work do actually work for a percentage of the kids who go to them.
But, yes, they cost a lot of money.
And, yes, many kids are not reached and end up going to prison/poverty anyway.
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its called birth control and not feeding their damn offspring of the criminals. how many generations are we suppose to be responsibility for other peoples decisions?
we live in a finite resource world. yet we are throwing billions of dollars away each year on people who don't give a shit about their fellow man.
they wouldn't think twice of blowing their fellow man away. why should resources of the community be wasted on those people who don't care.
hell they don't even care about their own offspring. how many of them know their fathers?
I'm just a realist. resources wasted could be use in education for everyone. think about all the resources wasted housing the criminals and educating them.
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you sound as if Bloomberg should not bother.
...he should accept that they will be prisoners.
Hmmmm. Prison costs about $40k per year.
What do we do in year 4, when our $127M have been spent on the 10,000 youth?
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prison should cost 0. meaning if you don't work dangerous or dirty jobs, most people won't do, you starve. should make money.
prisoners should be paid, but only after the state takes a cut from their rent and food.
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I think your model of having people pay for their own incarceration isn't feasible. I've gotta think Arizona or Mississippi would be doing it if it was allowed.
Let's return to talking about Bloomberg's plan....
Why don't you think it will work?
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its not feasible in the current state because simply criminals have more rights than citizens.
once you commit serious crime and get sent to prison you get reduce rights as a citizen.
many other countries besides liberalize west their work camps make money.
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Bloomberg's plan is to reach youth that are not presently incarcerated.
Granted, his "target audience" is incarcerated regularly, but (as I understand it) the majority of the funds for his program will be spend on trying to reach those not presently in prison.
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For example, it was the Mayor's frustration with the involvement of young Black and Latino males in the criminal justice system that sparked this entire effort. With three out of four men who leave Rikers returning, it is clear that our justice systems are a revolving door. Key to breaking this cycle is the role of the Department of Probation. Under the leadership of Deputy Mayor Linda Gibbs and Commissioner Vincent Schiraldi, and with nearly $20 million dollars in support, the DOP is transforming its role from that of compliance machine to an engaged partner. DOP's goal is to work with their clients (almost all are young Black and Latino males) in the neighborhoods where they live by providing them the supports—education, connection to employment, help cleaning up their RAP sheets, mentoring—to make it so that they do not commit another crime. They can turn the page to the next chapter in their lives, and our communities are safer for it.
http://www.citylimits.org/conversations/146/the-new-york-city-young-men-s-initiative
it seems to me it was design to help criminals.
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AW wrote: it seems to me it was design to help criminals.
It could be that he doesn't care about the criminals at all, and just wants less crime.
Would such an ulterior motive be bad?
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armchair_warrior said:
no community wants to pay for a bunch of lazy criminal forever either, unless its liberal whites with guilt in their minds because of their ancestors sins.they have a choice call not committing crime.
I think programs can help though.
You gotta remember, for a lot of these kids "the hood" is all they know. Just being exposed to something different + seeing the hood life isn't the only option can do wonders. Even if it doesn't work for EVERY kid, if it works for a decent amount it will be a success IMO. Better some than none.
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Nothing can save Bloomberg's ill-advised and abysmal third term. Thank you, Ms. Quinn.
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The first batch of contracts is awarded.
NYNP wrote: NYC Probation Announces
Young Adult Award DeterminationsThe NYC Department of Probation is has announced the 11 organizations that were determined eligible for Young Adult Justice Scholars and Young Adult Justice Community awards.
Both programs are part of Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg's Young Men's Initiative (YMI), the nation's boldest and most comprehensive effort to tackle the broad disparities that are slowing the advancement of black and Latino young men (more information on YMI here). The programs will serve young adults between the ages of 16 and 24 who are involved in the criminal justice system. The contracts will be for three years from January 1, 2012 through December 31, 2015, with an option to renew for two additional one-year periods.
Justice Scholars focuses on education and introduces participants to potential careers. Justice Community is a more flexible model that adapts to the current educational and employment status of each participant and engages him or her in community benefit projects. The ultimate goals of these programs are to help build stronger and safer communities, reduce crime and recidivism and promote lifelong educational gains, career exploration, and employment attainment and retention for court-involved young adults in New York City.
"The Young Adult Justice Scholars and Young Adult Justice Community programs embody the Department of Probation's evidence-based belief that the best way to secure public safety is by providing our clients with the tools they need to break the cycle of crime,” said Department of Probation Commissioner Vincent N. Schiraldi. "We look forward to partnering with these organizations to make a real and lasting difference in the lives of court-involved young people. In the case of the Justice Community program, we will also impact New York City neighborhoods by connecting participants to projects designed to address local needs.”
The following organizations were determined eligible for awards in these associated Community Districts:
Justice Community Awards:
Fund for the City of New York/Center for Court Innovation -- BK 16;
The Osborne Association, Inc. -- BX 1,2,3;
Center for Community Alternatives -- BK 5;
The Children's Village, Inc. -- MN 9, 11;
Research Foundation of CUNY (LaGuardia Community College) -- QNS 12;
Justice Scholars Awards:
The Fortune Society -- BX 1,2,3,4,5,6,9; BK 3,4,5,8,13,16; MN 9,10,11; and QNS 1,12,14
South Bronx Overall Development Corporation (SoBRO) -- BX 1,2,3,4,5,6,9;
Community Mediation Services, Inc. -- QNS 12;
New York City Mission Society -- MNH 9,10,11;
The Center for Alternatives Sentencing and Employment Services, Inc. -- BK 3,4,5,8,13,16; MN 9,10,11; BX 1,2,3,4,5,6,9; and QNS 1, 12, 14;
Graham Windham -- BK 3,5,8,16.
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This week, the next batch of contracts was awarded:
NYC Probation Announces AIM Selections
The New York City Department of Probation (DOP) has announced the three organizations that have been determined eligible to operate AIM (Advocate, Intervene, Mentor) programs. AIM is an intensive mentoring and advocacy program for young people on probation. Participants are placed with advocates who provide structure and guidance while connecting them to untapped community resources. It is part of Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg's Young Men's Initiative.
AIM will serve adolescents between the ages of 13 and 18 who are facing a violation of probation due to chronic absenteeism and/or chronic unresponsiveness to interventions and engagement strategies. In addition to being under the supervision of a Probation Officer, each AIM participant will be paired with an advocate. Advocate/mentors will work with no more than four young people at a time; help build and strengthen social bonds between the client and the community in which they live; and will be available to the youth and their families 24/7.
The following organizations have been determined eligible for awards to serve these Community Districts:
Community Mediation Services, Queens CDs 12 & 13;
Good Shepherd Services, Brooklyn CDs 3,5,16 & 17;
Youth Advocate Programs, Bronx CDs 1,2,3,4,5 &,6.Source: NY Nonprofit Press
P.S. Brooklyn's CD 8 does not look like it will be served.
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In related news, other cities (including ones overseas) are looking at NYC being held up as a model for how to address juvenile crime: http://jjie.org/uk-advocates-turning-nyc-as-model-for-saner-criminal-justice-system/87880
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white guilt and there is alot of it in the uk.
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White guilt? That sounds like a complex, perhaps incurable psychological condition.
I suspect that a lot of the alternative to incarceration programs are motivated by nothing more than a desire to save money.
...an intent to help the individuals involved is secondary, at best.
Is saving taxpayer money bad? Are we obligated to create jobs for upstate communities that depend upon the prison industry?
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save money would be to throw out tons of appeals to death and make the prisoners pay for the bullet and no more welfare if you are child of one.
If you are on it, sent to the country to pick fruits etc.... do the dirty work of the illegals that are currently missing from the country farms.
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The solutions you propose don't seem feasible in the present socio-political-economic environment of the US, much less that of NYS and NYC.
Louisiana and Texas might be the states that come closest to implementing your methods.
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such waste of resources for housing prisoners and educating them and feeding their spawn etc...
would be better spent on productive citizens.
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Freeing up funds to spend on items like infrastructure and police are a big part of why they are scaling back the prison system, and looking for alternatives.
It also prevents them from having to raise taxes and/or incur debt; neither of which is favored at the moment.
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AW-
You do realize that Bloomberg is spending his private money on this, right?
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I'm talking in a general rant about social programs and prison etc... waste of money and resources.
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Bloomberg appears to take a different position.
By spending his own money, he hopes to ensure that it is spent in a more efficient, effective manner that the often ineffective programs government traditionally funds.
This is not a small, obscure demonstration program which will not measure the successes and failures of its efforts.
Unlike many program, this one is being watched too closely to be able get away with exaggerating its successes and mitigating its failures.
By making this very public "bet", Bloomberg hopes to show that even the most "disconnected, at-risk" young men can be diverted from a life in which they are a liability to society.
If he is successful, other rich people, private foundations and governments will attempt to replicate "Bloomberg's New York City" program.
If he fails, the programs will be used by many to show that even the best designed, best funded programs are unable to reach such young men, and -therefore- society should incarcerate them for long periods of time, at the first sign of criminality.
In other words, if you are confident that such programs are a waste of money, you should want this program to be even larger than it is....
Do you really want to have to listen to some bleeding heart liberal state that another $50M (127 + 50 = 177M) could have made all the difference?
Because it isn't taxpayer money that is being spent, this is unique opportunity: Naysayers have can want more spending, while simultaneously hoping it goes to waste.
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i don't care criminal and their spawn, i care poor people who aren't damn criminals and don't get the chances and money thrown at them that criminals get.
see my point why do they spend so much money on bad bets.
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