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They're back! - Page 2 — Brooklynian

They're back!

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  • I guess he didnt save alot of time weaving in and out of traffic.

  • He was running late for his accident.

  • Since we've started talking about motorcycles I've started paying attention to them. And it seems that many either don't have plates or bend the plate so it can't be read. That guy is so lucky to be alive. I wonder if he if he can walk or will ever be able to again.

  • Motorcycle accidents like this are a rite of Spring, and often involve very inexperienced, young riders.

    As the saying goes:

    There are some old ones.

    There are some bold ones.

    There are very few old, bold ones.

  • there is a reason they call them donorcycles.

  • The guys that are mobbing up the streets doing wheelies and evading cops are mostly on stolen bikes.

    Perfectly legitimate motorcycles are often parked without plates to keep the plates from being stolen (for use by the above) and to discourage ticketing.

  • I remember reading a statistic that a full 33% of people on motorcycles don't have the "M" endorsement on their license.

    Meaning that they haven't even taken the road and written tests, much less a basic safety course on how to ride.

    ...the only things they know, they have learned thru trial and error, and what a friend has shown them.

  • And this is why motorcycle policies do not have no fault coverage meaning that if you end up in the hospital you pay for your treatment until it's settled that you weren't at fault. This is unlike car policies that automatically pay for medical treatment no matter who's at fault.

  • The fact that insurance doesn't have to pay, just means that in many cases, Medicaid ends up paying.

    ....most of the injured don't have a lot of assets.

  • id really like to see statistics on assets, motorcycle ownership/ridership, and accident rates. seems like quite an ambitious hypothesis.

  • My hypothesis is tied to the ages of the men who seem to be disportionately involved in motorcycle accidents, those aged 17 - 35.

    As one might suspect, this group also tends to ride the bikes with the most power.

    Another emerging trend of concern to public health and safety experts is the growing popularity of racing-style motorcycles known as supersports, which have high power-to-weight ratios and are capable of extreme acceleration and speed (160+ mph). Although designed for the racetrack, supersport motorcycles are marketed and sold to the general public and have become especially popular among young riders. On September 11, 2007, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) released a report showing that "motorcyclists who ride supersports have driver death rates per 10,000 registered motorcycles nearly 4 times higher than motorcyclists who ride all other types of bikes."10

    The IIHS report also noted that among fatally injured motorcycle drivers, those riding supersports are the youngest, with an average age of 27. For both 2000 and 2005, the death rate for riders of supersport bikes is twice that of sport bike riders and four times that for riders of other motorcycle types (See table 6).

    http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/publications/special_reports_and_issue_briefs/special_report/2009_05_14/html/entire.html

    In NYC, and perhaps throughout the nation, young men have been hardest hit by the recession (aka "new normal"), and have high rates of unemployment, which is closely correlated to assets. ...such young men have disportionately few financial assets.

    If coupled with a poor education and a wealth of other social markers, these same men seem to be most at risk of engaging in all sorts of high risk behavior, such as violent crime, and (I purport) the type of motorcycling I classify as "reckless".

    Programs strive to get them to be more connected to society as well as take charge of their own well being:

    http://www.nyc.gov/html/ymi/downloads/pdf/young_mens_initiative_annual_report_2012.pdf

  • Page 33 states that about 25% of motorcyclist fatalities lacked the proper licensure:

    http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810606.PDF

    While a national stat, my premise is that the rate of non-compliance is even higher in a low-income urban area (such as Crown Heights).

    When combined, these factors exaggerate the racial disparities in motorcycle injuries and fatalities that are evident throughout the nation:

    https://www.meddium.com/content/Assets_950000-999999/asset_957418/file_metadata_957417.pdf

  • eastbloc said:

    Perfectly legitimate motorcycles are often parked without plates to keep the plates from being stolen (for use by the above) and to discourage ticketing.

    They might be better off buying locking bolts and nuts for their plates.

  • Why would that be better?

  • 1) your link does not provide adequate information stating where the highest concentration of these motorcycles is located. i do not believe it's in brooklyn.

    2) the price of one of these motorcycles can be thousands of dollars, with several models exceeding a sticker price of 10k.

    based on the limited information you've given, it's actually more likely that people who have the assets to afford buying those motorcycles would be the ones with higher rates of accidents, because they are the ones more likely to be riding them. the link that you've provided regarding race and motorcycle accidents is interesting, but largely counterproductive to your argument. according to that article, though blacks are more likely to DIE in accidents, there are more white people actually riding motorcycles. secondly, and perhaps most detrimental to your argument of risk taking behavior, is this fact:

    "Crude helmet use among black motorcyclists was 79.1%,

    compared with 77.3% for whites. When adjusting for age,

    sex, insurance status, and year of admission, blacks were

    found to have a higher odds (OR, 1.3; 95% CI, 1.19–1.43)of wearing a helmet than their white counterparts"

    lastly, the wrap up of the article makes the point i'd like to stress.

    "It is not clear why blacks are more likely to die after a

    MC... First, it is

    possible that the mechanisms that underlie other racial disparities in health outcomes—lack of insurance, reduced

    access to care, poorer quality of care, greater comorbidi-

    ties—are likely at play here."

    if you want to argue lack of access to healthcare or insurance, fine. but please don't argue that people of color die because of their own reckless behavior and need to be saved from themselves. its both racist and classist.

  • whynot_31
    edited May 2014

    "people of color die because of their own reckless behavior"

    Such a statement would be far too broad.

    "and need to be saved from themselves"

    In situations where one is a danger to themselves, there is often very little anyone else can do.

    Motorcycle injuries are often so severe (aka expensive) that even those with private insurance quickly exhaust it and end up on medicaid.

    http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/motorcycle_html/overview.html

  • i mean, im just pointing out that your argument doesn't have much basis, despite the attempt to quantify it. stating that young black men are more likely to engage in violent crime in nyc because of the recession is a broad statement too. violent crime has gone down in nyc in the time of the recession.

    also, latinos have been most hard hit by the recession in terms of loss of assets, with asian americans second hardest hit, followed by african americans. and its actually women who have been hit harder, at least on a global scale (though in the us women have fared better than their male counterparts, but those who are unemployed have a harder time finding a job) not young black men. and i dont see many angry asian american or latino women carrying out violent crimes or engaging in behavior where they are a danger to themselves. so your argument is based on a whole lot of nothing except preconceptions about a certain group: low income black men. and that's an issue when we live where we live. just calling it like i see it.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/us/26hispanics.html?_r=0

    http://www.stanford.edu/group/recessiontrends/cgi-bin/web/sites/all/themes/barron/pdf/LaborMarkets_fact_sheet.pdf

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21088042

  • whynot_31
    edited May 2014

    "stating that young black men are more likely to engage in violent crime in nyc because of the recession is a broad statement too. violent crime has gone down in nyc in the time of the recession."

    Crime or unemployment can not be simply tied to things like the recession, ones age, gender or hue. One needs to know lots of things to predict them.

    In the case of unemployment, where one lives, ones skill set, legal status, whether one is disabled, etc all play roles.

    In the case of crime, one looks at things known as criminogenic risk factors.

    http://www.samhsa.gov/co-occurring/topics/criminal-justice/screening.aspx

    http://www.ncsl.org/print/cj/sf-kooyppt.pdf

    Even then, crime (or unemployment) is by no means a certainty. Likewise, if one could somehow eliminate all of the risk factors, it does not eliminate the risk that a person will commit a crime, become (or stay) unemployed, or (in this case) not crash a motorcycle.

    Quite simply, these guys crashed. ...soon, some more of them will crash.

    Then, as they do every Spring, some staffers at the DMV will tabulate the numbers of motorcycle fatalities in NYC from the preceding year. Because most motorcyclists in NYC wear a helmet, it should come as no surprise that most motorcyclists who died in prior years in NYC were wearing a helmet. Page 6

    http://www.dmv.ny.gov/Statistics/2011NYCCrashSummary.pdf

    This summer won't be any different: Those who are injured and/or die will tend to share many things in common with each other.

    Some groups/demographics will be disproportionately represented.

    Some will defy the odds, and live to become old and bold. Others will trash motorcycles.

  • So I have a question at what point would you all call the cops on a fight going on your block at 4 am or 3 am ish?

    Last night this morning it sounded like a group of guys got into a yelling match down the block. One guy kept saying "I'm going to go over and F you up." Normally I just ignore this but then one guy kept pushing him to do it. Apparently the guy yelling about "F'ing" the other guy was slighted in some way. I got kinda of concerned that the aggrieved party would go over and seek restitution. I laid in bed and debated whether I should call 911 or not. Fortunately they went quiet and I went back to bed.

    But I was wondering should I have called the cops? I really thought these guys were going to start beating each other!

    P.S. Before anyone says it I'm not moving upstate or to NJ.

  • whynot_31
    edited May 2014

    According to some, whenever you call the police, it is an act of racism, classism, and/or cultural imperialism UNLESS the defendants are the exact same race, class and culture as yourself.

    That said, I'd begin calling after 1 AM on a summer night.

    That is when I believe my right to sleep should outweigh their right to make noise.

    Some people are likely glad I am not their neighbor.

  • I call when:

    1)It is apparent that its going to escalate from yelling to something more; or

    2)If it has gone on for more than ten minutes;or

    3)If I feel like both parties would turn on me if I opted to go downstairs to tell them that a)they woke me up and b)could they keep it down

  • I have an 'M' endorsement on my license. I got it by driving motorcycles around a parking lot for a weekend in California. I would be absolutely terrified to ride a motorcycle in NYC traffic.

  • Newguy, I'm pretty sure you've mentioned you're on or near the same block as me, park and nostrand/rogers. Don't hesitate to call the cops. The last weekend a fight was escalating which spawned a "warning" shot followed by a "you scared now?" The cops showed up almost immediately as the gunman took off but with the weather starting to warm up, it will be a familiar scene.

  • whynot_31
    edited March 2014

    While still present, the gun shots and the illegal dirt bikes seem to be less familiar in CH than they were in the past.

    The police do what they can (but as discussed above and in the article that follows), their ability to intervene is restrained by many factors:

    http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20120419/harlem/dirt-bike-riders-terrorize-harlem-but-say-they-just-want-place-ride

  • Now that we have bikeshare, hopefully we can redirect these young men to safer and more responsible forms of sick wheelies:


  • Although difficult to achieve, that would be additional progress!

  • Epiclyaterd, Yeah I live really close to you. I'm On Park between Nostrand and New York.

    In the future I'll call the cops the second I think a fight could get violent.

  • This may be a stupid question, but when one decides to call the cops regarding a situation, what number do you call? Is it 911 or is there something more local for the Crown Heights area?

  • call the 77th pct. and press 0 for operator. a officer will usually answer.

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