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important cat advice needed — Brooklynian

important cat advice needed

brooklynleather
brooklynleather
edited November -1 in Brooklyn Pets
So last fall i adopted the most magical adult cat in the world. She and I get along like two peas in a pod. I felt bad she spent so much time alone so I got her a kitten. At first the older cat *hated* the kitten. Now they sort of romp around and groom eachother, etc.

The kitten is now 8 months old. He is eternally skiddish, fearful of people, and has weird bathroom behavior. ie he doesn't cover his poop and when he gets mad he poops somewhere he shouldn't ie my toilet seat! He is also very destructive in my mind (unravels toilet paper, etc.) I feel horrible about the thoughts that are crossing my mind (separating them...). I am moving to a cat-friendly home in August but wonder if it is everyone's best interest to return him to the organization I adopted him from (part of the agreement was not to adopt him out if things didn't work out...) in part because I fear he will be destructive of the property of the folks I am moving in with.

I am really torn up about this. My friends think the responsible thing to do is give him back so they can find him a home with someone who can manage him better (???) but my mother thinks of him as one of my children (and so do I to some extent!) and that I should just brave through his kitten time (4 more months?) and hope for the best.

Is it more traumatizing to separate a bonded pair? They are from different litters and have been living together 8 months.

Please, any and all advice needed. I want to be responsible and I want to give each cat a positive loving environment and I need to know if that means keeping them together or separating them.

Thank you.

Comments

  • rose
    rose
    He will settle down and become less destructive as he ages, but the weird litter box behavior (at least not covering the poop) is probably permanent. Are you sure he poops outside the box because he's mad? My cat used to do it when the litter box was not clean enough (in his opinion). A second litter box might be helpful.

    If you are going to return the cat, do it now while he is still young and cute. It sounds like your older cat is attached to him, and it sounds like you want her to be happy, so that's definitely a consideration. I have two cats that I've had since birth -- they were so crazy for a while that we called them the Trouble Twins, but they've since settled down a lot -- and they're only about 14 months old. So maybe you should just hang in there? Oh, I don't know . . . . :?
  • faycat
    faycat
    I think the idea of a second litter box is a good one. Maybe he wants his own bathroom? My kitty, who is now 4, was a terror as a kitten and still is to some extent. She loves a good pounce attack. But this has gotten better as she's gotten older. She never pooped outside of the box, so I don't know what to tell you about that, but she didn't and still doesn't always cover her poop in her box. I have a covered box, so I didn't think it was a big deal. Only in the last few months have I noticed her doing a lot of digging in her box after she poops, so I guess she's more inclined to cover it now.

    It's interesting that your cat is pooping on your toilet seat. Maybe he wants to poop where you poop?

    Regarding the unraveling of toilet paper, my cats growing up loved to do that. My dad ended up changing the toilet paper holder to this metal kind that had a sort of flip up top and covered the top half of the roll. This pretty much stopped that behavior, so you might want to look for something like that. I don't necessarily see this behavior as destructive, it looks more like it's really fun for them. If my cat gets her paws on a roll of paper towels, it's ridiculous.

    In any case, we are trying to move to a cat friendly apt so we can get another cat for my cat. And your story is making me a little nervous about that...
  • sweet tea
    sweet tea
    re: pooping behavior. my older cat is like that. she's never covered her poo -- my theory is that she wasn't taught properly as a kitten, bc she was abandoned in the woods, but who knows? she poops on the bathmat when she's pissed now. it helps if the litter box is REALLY clean, but sometimes she's just pissed. i'm glad cat poop is easier to clean up than pee.

    re: general craziness. it seems like he may age out of it. it also seems like he might benefit from more human socialization, which i know is hard when they're skittish, but might happen more naturally if you move in with others.

    my mother had a rescued adult cat who hid for the first several weeks and never hung out well with strangers, but eventually became quite a cuddle-muffin with us. (my friends in hs didn't believe me that we even owned another cat, but he slept on my dad's feet every night.) if sharing an apt means more space for him, it might be good, since he'll have more places to hide out while he gets used to things.

    it sounds like your cats get on well. the last pair we had were introduced as adult females and appeared to hate each other for months. even then, they only got to the we-can-share-this-chair stage, never to grooming. but when the older cat died, the younger one (who had lived as the only cat for years) was inconsolably lonely. she would cry and cry. even though we thought they hadn't liked each other all that much, clearly they had been important to one another.

    i really think you should keep the cat. (full disclosure: i'm definitely more of the cats-as-kids mindset.) he is young and has a big likelihood of chilling out. and i do think separation is likely to be traumatic for them.
  • brooklynleather
    brooklynleather
    Thanks for all the advice. When he has pooped on my toilet it has been when my friend brought his dog over. The kitten I guess was never taugh tto cover his litter as he was a rescue separated from his feral mother at 6weeks after being found (the three other kittens in the litter died)....

    I feel for him, I adore him, but he is a little monster. Neither one of them will let me clip their nails. Does anyone know about those rubber nail covers? i do not believe in nail removal.

    Maybe you are right--more space and more people might be good for the two of them....
  • sweet tea
    sweet tea
    i've heard the claw covers only kind of work. anyway, if you can't clip their claws, how are you going to get the claw covers on?

    i'm sure you've tried everything, but have you tried everything? all cats whose claws i've kept clipped have hated it at first -- screamed, cried, required to people to hold, reduced me to tears, etc. -- but they all got used to it eventually. sometimes wrapping the cat in a towel helped with extreme feistiness. i find that the actual claw-clipper we have (which was a gift but looks like it cost $3 or so) much easier to use and therefore much less traumatic than the fingernail clippers we had used before.
  • rose
    rose
    My crazy cat lets me cut her nails, in exchange for cat treats. I used to have to wrap her in a towel, while she struggled and tried to bite me.

    I used the claw covers on my old cat -- they work if you are diligent about replacing them when they fall off, but if you can't cut the cat's nails, you will never be able to get those on him/her. You can pay the vet to do it for you, but that's going to get expensive.
  • faycat
    faycat
    Clipping my cats claws entails catching her, wrapping her up in a blanket (kitty burrito), and extracting one paw at a time while she moans and groans like it's just so horrible for her. What a baby. I usually only get 1 or 2 paws done at a time and have to make another attempt the next day.
  • apollonia666
    apollonia666
    brooklynleather wrote: Thanks for all the advice. When he has pooped on my toilet it has been when my friend brought his dog over. The kitten I guess was never taugh tto cover his litter as he was a rescue separated from his feral mother at 6weeks after being found (the three other kittens in the litter died)....

    I feel for him, I adore him, but he is a little monster. Neither one of them will let me clip their nails. Does anyone know about those rubber nail covers? i do not believe in nail removal.
    If that's the only time he's pooped on the toilet, then I think you should just not have your friend bring his dog over anymore.

    And I know you don't believe in declawing, and declawing is unpopular, and I really do hate it, and I may get flamed for even bringing it up... but you'd rather send him back to the shelter than have him declawed?

    Both of my cats are declawed. One had already been declawed by her prior owner when I got her. The other one I had declawed after trying *everything* -- and she was not only destroying furniture, but she was ripping up the wood floor at my old apartment. It had reached a point at which I felt that my only remaining choice was to either find another home for her or have her declawed. So I did it and cried a lot over it and felt really, really awful about doing it, and after a couple of days of recuperation she seemed just fine.

    As far as the bad behaviors go, most cats do mellow out as they get older. And it helps to give them lots of toys and things to distract them and tire them out as much as possible.
  • laura b
    laura b
    "Going outside the box" is one of the most common cat issues--and, sadly, one of the biggest reasons cats are turned over to shelters. I've had to deal with it a couple of times myself, though, and have found that there is usually a (relatively simple) solution.

    First off: Has the kitten been neutered yet? If not, this can be a factor in causing aggressive behavior and acting out ("marking his territory").

    Has he otherwise been checked by a vet lately, to rule out a physical ailment that's causing this?

    Getting another litterbox is a great idea. If you use the covered kind, try taking the cover off (many cats do not like this). Experiment with different kinds of litter. There is a brand called Cat Attract that you can get at most pet stores (http://www.preciouscat.com/). It has something in it that makes it extra appealing to cats, and it has worked well for me [I mean the cats--I didn't use it! :)].

    It also helps to change the litter frequently, not use the scented kind, and make sure the box isn't placed near the food or in a difficult-to-access spot.

    There's a ton more information on this issue on the web. Just google "inappropriate elimination."

    Re: toilet paper destruction. I have a cat that does this, so I bought one of these steel cannister things:

    http://www.amazon.com/Toilet-Paper-Roll-Holder-Stainless/dp/B0000TQFVY

    Re: scratchy claws. Most kitties love these corrugated cardboard deals, sprinkled with catnip:

    http://www.thecatconnection.com/page/TCC/PROD/PLAY-SRTCH/PLAY-0176

    If you want the cat to not scratch particular surfaces, you can try a product called "Sticky Paws," which is really just double-sided tape (http://www.stickypaws.com/). Cats don't like to walk on a sticky surface. They also do not like citrus; you can try putting lemon peel where you do not want them.

    Here's a good tipsheet with lots more suggestions from the Humane Society:

    http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/our_pets_for_life_program/cat_behavior_tip_sheets/destructive_scratching/

    I don't think it would be a great idea to separate your cats now that they are buddies. So if possible give these methods a try. And let us know what happens!
  • alafairnadia
    alafairnadia
    I'm actually considering having my cats declawed. I feel terrible about it. but my boy cat is HUGE and will not let me clip his nails. he is also a kneader. and he bites. so it's not like the declawing will make him a biter.

    my girl cat fights super hard and shreds my arms. even with a towel or assistance.

    frankly, I think they're on even ground now and fine. so I figure if I declaw them they'll be on even ground and fine. but ...

    I don't like the idea. but I think I have to.
  • laura b
    laura b
    I know you're a big cat lover, alafairnadia, so please don't take this in a preachy way, but please do consider all the alternatives (and then some) before you go the declawing route. It's pretty drastic (amputation, basically): the major animal welfare orgs (ASPCA, Humane Society) oppose it, and it's outlawed in most of Europe, Japan, and other places (California is now considering making it illegal).

    There's tons of information on both declawing and scratching solutions online, so just be sure to read up before you make your decision.

    [End of non-sermon sermon.]
  • rose
    rose
    Two of my cats are declawed. I felt horrible about it, but this was the only way my husband would agree to keep them (we had taken in their pregnant mother with the plan to find homes for them, but I fell in love) because our previous cat was a major scratcher and did some serious damage. The declawing was done at the same time that they were spayed/neutered and after a few days of adjustment, as they relearned how to jump onto things without digging in their claws, they were fine. I really don't see any evidence of any problems. They are both active, friendly, happy cats.

    I seriously considered finding other homes for them rather than having this done, but my vet said that kittens adjust to it. He did say that he will not declaw older cats.
  • brooklynleather
    brooklynleather
    Hi Laura, I should have clarified--I adopted my older kitty from you folks and thus learned quite a bit of what you kindly shared also in your response from another slope street facts foster mom.

    but to answer your questions:
    my male cat is neutered, i use wheat and pine litter, clean it *frequently*, and do not use a box cover. he was around dogs previously and fine but i think he is just neurotic so it seems his behavior will be something i have to deal with...the more i think about separating them, it really just breaks my heart. i can't do it.

    i have tons of toys of all types, at points have had multiple scratchers....but maybe this apartment is just too small for the likes of both of them? i think the new place might actuallly be better..more space to hide and wander..


    thanks so much for your advice, though.

    on declawing: declawing is not an option. i was traumatized by my cat's trauma to me even getting close to cutting her nails and she is the friendly one! this may be a two-person endeavor at least with an experienced nail clipper before i do it on my own.

    are there any brooklyn groomers/vets who will clip nails relatively inexpensively? please advise.
  • ev965
    ev965
    Please don't declaw your cat. I will go to your house and cut your cat's nails, if you want. I'm not a groomer or a vet, but I have four cats whose nails I cut. I can give tips on what works for me (although every cat is different). Grab the cat. Sit with your leg crossed (your ankle up on your knee) and drape the cat on his back on your lap. Ignore the moaning and crying. If he tries to bite or scratch, either ignore it (he will stop) or wrap him firmly in a towel. He will try to convince you he's in pain, but he is not. He's playing games with you. But you are too smart to fall for this ruse. You are the human! If he still struggles too much, get someone to help you. A good way to hold him still might be to get your friend to grab the scruff of his neck and maybe cover his eyes gently. Grab a foot firmly. Push on the pads so the nail comes out. Clip below the pink part of the nail. Next. If there's a treat he likes, you might offer him one when you're done. Several of my cats used to fight (one bit and scratched hard), but now they are used to it. They are smart, and they learned. They still complain and give a token struggle at first, but when I make it clear that this thing is going to happen, they settle down. (Except watch for the fake-out, they will relax until you do too, and then suddenly they'll try to escape!) It's not fun or easy, but it's got to be done. You tell your cat this. You are the human. When it comes to his well-being, you are the boss (if only then). Let me know if I can help. --E.
  • repertoryopera
    repertoryopera
    I have a rule that when I get a manicure, they get a manicure. I tell them that, but I don't think they care :-)
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