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Empire rezoning request from commercial to mixed-use - Page 2 — Brooklynian

Empire rezoning request from commercial to mixed-use

2

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  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    Don't worry, the storage places will quickly be converted or demolished when Empire is rezoned.

    For an example, look at Fourth Avenue in Park Slope. Not long ago, it used to be a dreary stretch of storage places and fast food.

    Then it was rezoned.
    ...now it has condos.

    Empire is similar enough that it could experience the same phenomena.
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    edited August 2014
    Zoning aside, can we just ban self storage places on the basis of being awful to look at and total block-killers? Empire Blvd is already the most dreary stretch in the neighborhood!
    It was dreary long before the storage places came to be. Does anyone else remember that roller skating rink? 
  • nothinlikeabklyngirl
    nothinlikeabklyngirl
    I loved that roller skating rink. Had many good times there. 
  • southeast
    southeast
    The Q at Parkside provided this very helpful zoning map in his blog entry today. 
    Thanks for this.  The R4 area which starts on the north side of Crown while the south side is R7-1 really irks me. I can't understand why that is a dividing line; Carroll, Crown, and Montgomery are all identical in that area.  I'd love to see the R2 and R4 areas in CH raised slightly, and the R7-1 on Montgomery and Crown lowered. 
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    Not much different on the north side of Sullivan Place either...except for The Plex. The Plex isn't even that tall.

    So, if no one can resolve things at 245 Sullivan Place, @whynot_31, someone can buy the building, knock it down, and replace it with a high rise?
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited August 2014
    I can't verify your reading of how it is zoned at the moment, but will state:

    If it is zoned to allow a larger building then is presently built, yes, the owner of the lot could demolish the old one and build a new one that complied with the zoning in effect.

    The owner could do this "as of right", meaning they would not need approval from the local community board. They would merely need the DOB to agree that the proposed building meets safety regulations.

    If the building was in a landmark area (it isn't) the design would have go thru more layers of approval.
  • southeast
    southeast
    The Q at Parkside... Empire Rezoning - Are We Being Sold A Bill of Goods?
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    The Q is certainly correct in pointing out that those who presently live in market rate units and presently struggle to afford the area, will be worse off if the area is up zoned.

    This change, however, won't be made on the basis whether it benefits or harms them.

    It will be made on the basis of whether it benefits the city. It will be designed by citywide agencies, and ratified by the City Council.

    ....which certainly is more "local" than Albany or Washington.
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    edited September 2014
    I love the Q's blog. Some of the comments made in response are interesting. 

    How would upzoning be good for the city?


  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    The city makes a good deal of its revenue thru real estate taxes.

    In many instances, the comparatively wealthy people that will fill the buildings will also consume fewer city services and pay more taxes than the comparatively poor people who will no longer be able to afford the area.      

    I should probably note that neither the wealthy people or the poor people do this "on purpose", nor is it always true.   
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    The city makes a good deal of its revenue thru real estate taxes.

    In many instances, the comparatively wealthy people that will fill the buildings will also consume fewer city services and pay more taxes than the comparatively poor people who will no longer be able to afford the area.      

    I thought the city was not-for-profit. LOL
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    Under a competent administration/mayor, the agencies of the city pursue what is in their collective best interests.   If approval of the populace is in the best interests, it will be pursued.

    If it isn't, it won't be.

    ...despite the populist election rhetoric of the new mayor, I don't believe the present environment requires he (or the city) to abide.  

    We are going to get a lot of development and rezoning under the rhetoric of affordable housing.  It isn't a hard language to learn, and speaking it will allow you get the same jobs available under the prior administration. 


  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    Another mtg is planned. Those familiar with the speakers know that they are quite left:

    image
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited September 2014
    non hysterical press:


    Relevant video clip:


  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    image
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    press: http://theqatparkside.blogspot.com/2014/09/not-in-my-black-yard.html

    Yup, the Q and I attended the same meeting. Don't mind us curious onlookers in the back....
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    Stop the presses, @whynot_31! :)

    How long was the meeting?
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited September 2014
    I didn't stay until the end, but it was scheduled last until 9. I was only there for 30 minutes, from when it began at 7 until 7:30.

    That was plenty.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    Here's text an ad from a realtor and property owner that hope the rezoning takes place:

    http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18897346/1751-1757-Bedford-Avenue-Brooklyn-NY/

    "Epic Commercial Realty is exclusively marketing a property located at 1751-1757 Bedford on the south east corner of Bedford Ave and Empire Blvd. Located on the border of Prospect Lefferts Garden and Crown Heights, an upcoming location for national tenants including 7-Eleven, McDonalds, Td Bank, Burger King, and Rite Aid.

    The property’s prime location also offers the following benefits:

    •Walking distance to Prospect Park, one of NYC’s most beautiful outdoor parks.

    •Surrounded by national retail stores which include Wendy’s, McDonalds, Checkers, BP, Western Beef, Subway, and 7-Eleven.

    •Down the street from the Sterling St [2,5] train and Prospect Park [B,Q,S] train station.

    •In Addition, there have been recent talks of rezoning on Empire Blvd. This would give developers more flexibility on what they can build within the area.

    I look forward to working with you. Please do not hesitate to contact me with questions.

    Sincerely,

    Yona Edelkopf"


  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    I think it's funny that the realtor is mentioning the proximity to those fast food places on and around Empire Boulevard when some people who support the rezoning of Empire Boulevard seem to hate that those things are there. :) 

    I appreciate the realtor pointing out how "prime" the location is. 
    image
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    While this lot is too small, it isn't hard for me to imagine something like PC Richards, Best Buy or Modells if the area isn't rezoned.

    Note: I fully expect it to be rezoned.

    I believe this is merely a question of how quickly.
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    edited October 2014
    Can this area support a PC Richards? 

    Maybe it can fit a scaled down Best Buy, like the one at Union Square East. 

    ETA: From the listing:

    "The Property is located one block from Prospect Park and three blocks from the Prospect Park B,Q,S & Sterling St 2,5 train stations."

    How can it be one block from Prospect Park and three blocks from the Prospect Park train station when the Q station is across the street from the park (on the Flatbush Avenue/Ocean Avenue side)?

    ETA: I found a 1980s tax photo of the corner lot (1751 Bedford). It seems to corroborate my childhood memory that it used to be a bar. 1757 used to service cars. 
  • grwd
    grwd
    Really? A freaking electronics store in the era of online shopping? Talk about setting the bar low.

    I will settle for nothing less than a brand new Crazy Eddie's, with reproductions of 1980's electronics made by local Brooklyn artisans.

  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    edited October 2014
    @grwd - Well, it will become illegal to throw out electronics in the trash per NYS law in 2015. ;) 


    An electronics store that will still draw people would be an Apple store, but I acknowledge that's a pipe dream.

    @whynot_31 - The Q at Parkside's post from today focuses on Alicia Boyd's latest missive about the "war" over the possible rezoning on this area (including Empire Boulevard). 
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    There seem to be two distinct views:

    - The Q seems view this process as one in which "the community" (?) might get something through cooperation.

    while

    - Alicia Boyd and MTOPP seem to believe that they represent the majority of the community and have to power to stop the process (and perhaps time itself) if they don't get what they want.

    I suspect MTOPP is about to learn the limits of our democracy.

    Even if we lived in a more direct democracy, I do not believe her members have a majority in CB9.
  • grwd
    grwd
    @mugofmead111 Good point. It'd be nice not to have to drag e-waste very far.

    Also a more serious post about about CB9 zoning:

    I'd like to see DCP (the Department of City Planning) find some way to incentivize keeping the gas station in the triangle (trapezoid) bound by Lincoln, Flatbush, Washington and Lefferts as open space. I know a gas station is not open space, but it hints at what it could be.

    Perhaps DCP can write a provision such that whatever developer scoops that lot up and wants to turn it into luxury condos can instead shift those air rights across the street, turn the triangle into a public plaza, get some super you'd-be-crazy-not-to-make-this-a-plaza FAR bonus, and that intersection can remains a unique node in the CB9 urban fabric.

    Having witnessed the transformation of gas stations in the past 20 years, it's only a question of when that lot turns into something else. Does anybody else agree that a public space here would be worthwhile?

  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    @grwd - Why have public open space there when Prospect Park is a block or so away?

    Having it just off of Flatbush Avenue with the dollar vans whizzing by?

    I think someone over on The Q at Parkside blog had a similar idea.
  • grwd
    grwd
    @mugofmead111

    Good question. Grand Army Plaza is an example of a unique place that, while adjacent to Prospect Park, has a different use (sometimes a farmer's market). Across the street - why do people hang out on the steps of the library when they can just go inside Prospect Park?

    I imagine that a public space on Flatbush & Lincoln would be one that is more oriented to the local businesses, rather than to bucolic scenery or greenery.

    Perhaps a better example can be found over in Fort Greene - Fowler Square at Fulton Street & S. Elliott Place. Having recently been expanded into the roadbed, it is an example of the business-oriented plaza. Sure, you could just walk one block north over to Fort Greene Park, but there are also reasons to be there, despite the traffic on Fulton Street (while it is lacking in dollar vans, it makes up for it in buses).

    Another example from Manhattan are the numerous small parks on Mercer Street or on Sixth Avenue. Why would anybody go to such places when they can just walk over to the larger, more well-known Washington Square Park? I'm sure that by now, you can see what I'm getting at.

    Let's assume that gas station gets bought up and becomes a solid 2-3 story building mass - I imagine that the stores along Washington Street would suffer from a lack of visibility from the main drag on Flatbush. In my opinion, maintaining open space here is an opportunity to strengthen the local area.
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    @mugofmead111

    Good question. Grand Army Plaza is an example of a unique place that, while adjacent to Prospect Park, has a different use (sometimes a farmer's market). Across the street - why do people hang out on the steps of the library when they can just go inside Prospect Park?

    BPL's Central branch now has tables and chairs (and sun umbrellas if/when someone puts them out there). Aside from that, there are at least a couple of benches built into the marble by the main entrance. If I were sitting over there, it'd be beacause I was heading in that direction anyway (either to or from the library or heading north on Flatbush). :)

    While we're at it, I wouldn't mind a bench or two being installed by the SB B41 bus stop. :)

    I imagine that a public space on Flatbush & Lincoln would be one that is more oriented to the local businesses, rather than to bucolic scenery or greenery.


    Another example from Manhattan are the numerous small parks on Mercer Street or on Sixth Avenue. Why would anybody go to such places when they can just walk over to the larger, more well-known Washington Square Park? I'm sure that by now, you can see what I'm getting at.

    It's funny you mentioned this example. I work near Washington Square Park. I'd rather hang out in Washington Square than the little triangle park on Bleeker Street and 6th Avenue or the little park at the corner of W.4th Street and 6th Avenue - but that's just me. :) 


    @whynot_31 - I heard a teaser on NY1 this morning that on tonight's Inside City Hall, one of the subjects of discussion will be development in central Brooklyn. The teaser didn't specify which neighborhood, but I suspect Crown Heights/PLG may be involved.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    City Hall meetings are mostly announcements and theater with regard to planning; nothing actually gets decided there.

    First DCP does a study, then has meetings about what they would like to do. The public gets to state its opinions:

    http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/luproc/calbeg.shtml

    Then, the City Council holds a public few hearings about the proposal and votes:

    http://legistar.council.nyc.gov/Calendar.aspx

    Most DCP proposal pass the city council with large majorities.

    Then, the Mayor signs it.

    ...then it becomes law.

    Note: I may have left out some of the really boring parts.
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