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As housing for the poorest disappears, cost of shelter soars - Page 2 — Brooklynian

As housing for the poorest disappears, cost of shelter soars

24

Comments

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited September 2015
    The Callahan decision does not stipulate how often a person in shelter can be moved, but does stipulate the condition of the shelter space provided:

    http://www.coalitionforthehomeless.org/our-programs/advocacy/legal-victories/the-callahan-legacy-callahan-v-carey-and-the-legal-right-to-shelter/
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    The point is....if you can't pay the rent, no matter where you're staying, the city is paying hence the taxpayers are paying
    The city is paying no matter where they are living though, whether it's on the street, in a shelter, or in this other type of shelter like 60 Clarkson. 
  • pragmaticguy
    pragmaticguy
    YOU are the city. New York is just an entity to collect and spend your tax dollars. You're the one paying the rent (along with other taxpayers). The "city" doesn't print its own money, they're just spending yours. Whether it's spent wisely is up to you to decide.
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    edited September 2015
    YOU are the city. New York is just an entity to collect and spend your tax dollars. You're the one paying the rent (along with other taxpayers). The "city" doesn't print its own money, they're just spending yours. Whether it's spent wisely is up to you to decide.
    More accurately, it's up to elected officials to decide...which is what we're getting  hen Scott Stringer is doing his audit. 


  • pragmaticguy
    pragmaticguy
    If you decide the money isn't being spent wisely by elected officials you vote them out. Hopefully the people you replace them with do a better job.

    On another tack, the news reported that in the Cuomo-Deblasio feud 55% of the people favored Cuomo 37% for Deblasio. Looks like he may be a one-termer.


  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    While I am not a fan of DeBlasio, I do not know that he could be doing "better" on this issue.

    ...I have friends at DHS who are scrambling to find shelter space in order to remain in compliance with Callahan. Their hands are tied.
  • pragmaticguy
    pragmaticguy
    I don't think the report was just citing this issue. I think they meant overall. Let's face it, DeBlasio is abrasive, doesn't seem to have an open mind about many things (more like it's his way or no way) and just doesn't seem that likable.
  • booklaw
    booklaw
    That's odd... I think you just perfectly described my perception of Cuomo.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    I am glad that I don't have to choose to like one vs the other.

    I can dislike them both.
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    edited September 2015
    That's odd... I think you just perfectly described my perception of Cuomo.
    Which one is more abrasive - Cuomo or de Blasio? Discuss. :) 

    Even if we were to vote out de Blasio in a couple of years, that won't help the homeless who are in crisis (like the people at 60 Clarkson) now.   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    It also won't change the city's legal obligation to somehow create shelter for them all.

    Note, the people on the street don't have to come into the shelters, but the city has to show that they have enough excess capacity to meet the demand.

    If they don't:
    1. Callahan is violated.
    2. Landlords might not be able get evictions of delinquent tenants from their buildings via Housing Court, which will cause all sorts of chaos.
  • pragmaticguy
    pragmaticguy
    @MugofMead...the people at 60 Clarkson aren't homeless. They live there. It's just a crappy place but if they have an apartment they're not homeless.
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    edited September 2015
    @MugofMead...the people at 60 Clarkson aren't homeless. They live there. It's just a crappy place but if they have an apartment they're not homeless.
    The media reports that 60 Clarkson is being used as a "cluster site". 

    "Of the more than 9,000 units of the New York City Department of Homeless Services (DHS) housing homeless families as of December 2011—when this analysis was conducted—roughly 5,000 were in safe, well regulated, service-rich facilities called Tier II shelters. The remainder of those units, about 45%, were in hotels or facilities called cluster-site housing. (source)"

    It sounds like 60 Clarkson is being used as another type of shelter, and it sounds like these families are still classified as "homeless" even though they are being sheltered.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited September 2015
    While we may disagree with it, the city is forced to use the definition of Homeless provided by the Callahan consent decree.

    Here is a slightly larger conversation on the issue: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness
  • pragmaticguy
    pragmaticguy
    As I said in a previous post, these people aren't homeless. It's just that they can't pay rent so NYC (meaning taxpayers) pay the rent for them. Don't you wish someone paid your rent??
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    I long ago concluded that no one but me is going to pay my rent.

    I do not think I should waste my time trying to get a consent decree to try to change that.
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    edited September 2015
    As I said in a previous post, these people aren't homeless. It's just that they can't pay rent so NYC (meaning taxpayers) pay the rent for them. Don't you wish someone paid your rent??
    I'm in a stabilized apartment. Some people in the comments section for the various stories about the fight to renew rent-regulation that Gothamist ran made the argument that those are "subsidized" (off of the backs of those who are paying market-rent). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

    By the way, the funny thing is that 60 Clarkson is a rent-stabilized building. 
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    However, the joke is on them:
    Even though the residents are likely to stay there for more than 30 days, they do not receive tenancy rights.

    And, the landlord is not constrained by the Max Legal Rent.

    The homeless crisis is not bad for such landlords; they can get market rents without having to pay for the improvements that would be demanded by tenants who paid their own way.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    As this article points out, the city is now constructing its own shelters which it would presumably lease to operators.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-affordable-housing-includes-homeless-shelter-article-1.2370588
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    As this article points out, the city is now constructing its own shelters which it would presumably lease to operators.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-affordable-housing-includes-homeless-shelter-article-1.2370588
    Hopefully they'll have some safeguards in place that will allow them not to do business with operators like Barry Hers.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    I suspect any "safeguards" won't be effectively enforced until the city is in less of a bind.

    At the moment, shelter providers can break the rules with knowledge that the city is too desperate for their participation to provide any meaningful consequences.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited September 2015

    This article nicely displays how the length of stay for homeless families has doubled: 

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/nyc-to-target-evictions-in-bid-to-curb-homelessness-1443401502

    The city literally has no affordable housing to place them in, and the situation is not changing anytime soon.

    As a result, the city is desperate to to try and keep families from entering the system and is providing rental and legal assistance to families on the brink of losing their housing.

    ....the city is not doing this because it is altruistic.

     

     

     

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    http://www.wnyc.org/story/mayor-de-blasio-spend-more-fighting-homelessness/
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited October 2015
    The shelter system is so full, that not even our self-professed "mayor of the common man" is willing to stop the NYPD from taking residents out of the system when it meets their needs.

    DHS to NYPD: We are struggling to abide by Callahan, so if you want some of these guys they are all yours.


    http://www.vice.com/read/why-is-the-nypds-warrant-squad-still-raiding-homeless-shelters-1001?utm_source=vicefbus

  • ehgee
    ehgee
    As I said in a previous post, these people aren't homeless. It's just that they can't pay rent so NYC (meaning taxpayers) pay the rent for them. Don't you wish someone paid your rent??
    I'm in a stabilized apartment. Some people in the comments section for the various stories about the fight to renew rent-regulation that Gothamist ran made the argument that those are "subsidized" (off of the backs of those who are paying market-rent). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

    By the way, the funny thing is that 60 Clarkson is a rent-stabilized building. 
    Just like your landlord is subsidized, inasmuch as if you don't pay rent, he can go to a building run by the city and get a man in a robe to tell men with guns to break down your door and put you and everything you own on the street.

    It's funny how we decide what's a subsidy and what isn't.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    edited October 2015
    The question seems to be: Will Stringer's stunt be enough to cause the city to create and pursue a long term plan?

    http://www.cityandstateny.com/articles/politics/new-york-city/experts-say-stringer’s-rejection-of-homeless-shelter-contracts-is-‘illegal’.html#.VhNilHjOD8E
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    Landlords are not accepting the LinC vouchers as a result of being burned by the prior Advantage program.

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/10/07/homeless-landlord-refusal/

    ...seems like Stringer will be able to kick DeBlasio around as long as the public remains ignorant of such intracies.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    As predicted above, the advocates for the homeless are now assembling.

    This article should be perceived as a warning shot to DeBlasio.   Will he be able to take any actions that are effective in avoiding a legal and political escalation?

     http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/11/nyregion/he-fought-city-hall-over-shelters-now-he-runs-homeless-policy.html?ref=nyregion&_r=0
  • mugofmead111
    mugofmead111
    de Blasio better hope Andrew Cuomo doesn't decide to pile on...
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    @mugofmead111 -
    The operator of 60 Clarkson is now being sued by the tenants (ie advocacy organizations)

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/brooklyn-landlord-sued-repair-apartments-article-1.2396442

    We should note that DHS did not file the lawsuit. ...DHS knows t is desperate for such landlords, and that many of its facilities are in similar shape.

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